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david craig
david craig, Auto Mechanic
Category: Volvo
Satisfied Customers: 3068
Experience:  owner/mechanic at 3D Automotive
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2005 Volvo 2.5t B5254T2 dual VVT. Removed camshaft pulley

Customer Question

2005 Volvo 2.5t B5254T2 dual VVT. Removed camshaft pulley without marking or locking the intakes and exhaust with the tool. I bought the tool now and can't tell the position of the grooves for intake and exhaust at the back of the camshaft. How do I know which position the grooves should be in order to lock them with the camshaft alignment toll?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Volvo
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

Hi Im Dave, the alignment tool should only fit one way. get the cams turned to where the tool slides into the slots.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
That's easy to do, the issue I'm finding is how can you tell if the slots are upside down or not, remembered my cam sprockets where not marked when I pulled them out.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

if they are upside down, the tool wont fit correctly. it'll look like it might but it'll be just a hair off

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I figured a picture is worth more than 1000 typed words. In the picture, do you know if the right notches are pointing to the right position, once I get confirmation on that, I will position and lock them with the tool.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

that is correct. exhaust notch at 5ish and intake at 7ish.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for the confirmation, I have looked all over the place and I couldn't find a manual that will confirm the position of the notches as there are no markings on the head or valve cover to align them properly. I'm also thinking this is an easy mistake for those mechanics that don't that the experience you have. As a discussion point, what would happened for those that decide to mount the camshaft different than the pictures I provided, lets say with the notches pointing upward?
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

well anytime you do timing work, you ALWAYS manually turn the crank once the chain/belt is installed to make sure there is no interference. if they were 180 out then the car would probably just not start.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
You are right, most mechanics will turn the crankshaft to see if there was not interference as it is in my case. Before the confirmation I happened to put the notch upward for the intake and downward for the exhaust and felt no interference, but the car wouldn't start. Do you think I could have bent valves with the upward and downward notches?
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

no. you didnt bend the valves. believe me you would have heard it

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for that response "you didn't bend valves", I'm sure a lot of us will appreciate that in the future. I'm putting back my belt now and I can rotate with my hand the cam sprockets two teeth out passing the alignment marks in the cover on both direction which tells me something is not right. I was thinking that once I rotate the sprocket with my hand to the right, the sprocket should stop at the align marks on the cover and not passed that position. How do I know if my sprockets have been placed properly before I mount the timing belt.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

those sprockets are vvt, they wont stop ... you have to line them up with the timing marks and keep them there. there is a tool for that too.

Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

they spring back to the rest position. if they arent spring loaded then just turn them back to the rest position and you should be good

Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

dont worry about the other tool i mentioned

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
They are not spring loaded and they have a lot of slack back and forth. If I rest the sprocket to the rest position(all the way left), then the cover marks won't align like the manual. Are you saying it won't matter if I don't get the exact alignment between the sprockets and the cover?
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

they have to align with the marks. did you have the sprockets off?

Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

see if this helps you

https://youtu.be/o4uLvH151-c

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
This is more like the issue I have, look at the movements of the sprockets. How do you make sure it aligns with the marks on the cover at the time the belt is put on.See the video below, it is exactly my issue right now.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPdudxdvpD8
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I placed the sprockets to its top rest positions to the right ending or aligning with the marks on the cover, then mounted the belt on the cam sprockets. I made sure my crank was also aligned with the line marks as showing in the picture below. I'm almost ready to turn this beast on and see the results.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Tried won't turn on.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Car will not turn on, it sounds like glup glup like sucking air.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

meaning it wont start?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It won't start.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

are you sure your on the compression stroke at tdc at the crank?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
piston 1 was set all the way to the top.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It feels like the engine turns slowly in an attempt to start it.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

that doesnt mean you on the compression stroke. put a piece of thin paper/tissue over the spark plug hole while manually moving the crank. when the paper blows up or away, you're on the compression stroke then take it to the top

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I tried the paper, when it blew away, I took it all the way to the top, then verified the marks and it looks like I'm one teeth off with the exhaust sprocket. See pics.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

redo it. it needs to be dead on

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Checked compression on piston 1 and read 90, then went to the next couple spark plug and read 30 on 2nd and 3rd sparks plugs.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

you sure you got the gauge on tight? coz that aint even close brother. you need to be reading 140-180

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Let me try reading with the gauge on stroke one. I also have the tool to lock the piston 1 behind the starter, But used a screw driver instead.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

remove all tools from anywhere and do a regular compression test. hold key to start for 5 cylcles for each cylinder

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Tried all five, results as follow:
1- 90
2-30
3-30
4-25
5-0
I did 5 cycles. At this point is either the notches are still off or vvt or bent valves. Do you have any picture or manual for the notches pointing downward? I need to make sure that is the true case, if not could be vvt not properly installed or the dreaded answer, bent valves.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

ok. when you initially started the job, did you initially finish and try starting the vehicle without making certain everything was lined up?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
we were not certain it was aligned properly, the only thing I was sure off was the crankshaft alignment and TDC, the cams threw us off with the notches. One thing I feel different with my previous setup was that I felt the engine turning on faster with both notches pointing upward.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

ok. being 180 degrees out will cause low compression also. turn the cam notches up then, but ive never seen it or have done it that way.................give it a shot

Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

dont be so worried about bent valves, as long as you manually turned the crank before starting it every time.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How can we make certain about the notches, can we check or look for written manuals that will tell us otherwise, perhaps someone that had the same issue. With the notches pointing upward, I felt I had better compression.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
maybe the reason it didn't start was due to vvt not setup correctly.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

ok. go here and you should find everything you need........http://workshop-manuals.com/

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I already tried the workshop manuals to no avail. Every time we think we got something aligned we turned manually to see if there was resistance. I will try the notches tomorrow and give you the results.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

ok man. ill dig up some pics

Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

i believe i told you 5ish and 7ish on the cams.... here is the zero setting

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Excellent picture, now I feel much more confident, I will try the setup the same as in the picture, then provide you with the results.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, results came back negative. I've changed the cams to match your setup, put everything together and the car tried to start but didn't. Checked compression and is better than what I had before but not by much.
1- 40
2- 50
3- 45
4- 50
5- 55
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

ok. do compression test agian this time pour a tablespoon of motor oil down the spark plug hole then connect the gauge. see what the compression does

Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

any luck?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I haven't Tried it yet, I will do it sometime this afternoon and give you feedback; got busy yesterday with other things.
Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

ok. sounds good

Expert:  david craig replied 1 year ago.

have you attempted anything more?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but got distracted doing other things. Couple of days ago, I removed the heads thinking the valves were bent. Performed the leaked down test with the heads removed and they look fine with no leaks.
Now, I'm going to put the heads back using the special tool, lock the cranckshaft with the pin and put everything back together in an effort to get it right this time. Regarding the camshaft alignment and the position of the notches from the back of the cam, are you still certain what you described previously still holds true or should we try something else? My special tool will fit either way (notches up or down).
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

let me look back over our notes..........

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

that tool should not fit either way. but the position of the #1 cylinder cam lobes will be the key.

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

per the pic

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

this one

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

zero setting

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Took some pictures with the so call zero setting. Please let me know if the setting looks accurate.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
With the setting you specified, you can see the following:
Cylinder 2 - 2 intake valves open.
Cylinder 5 - 2 exhaust valves open.
If you look at the tool I have, you can tell it will fit either way.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

correct on the int and exh valves. the tool should fit easier one way than the other..... odd....it usually is almost impossible to fit the other way

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

just make sure the cam lobes on cylinder 1 are kind of pointing at each other. may 10 and 2 o clock lobe position

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Do you happen to have a manual for torque specifications for the heads.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

let me look that up

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

Use camshaft adjustment tool:

-

Install camshaft adjustment tool(###) ###-####Camshaft Adjustment Tool See: Tools and Equipment/999 5452 Camshaft Adjustment Tool at the rear
of the camshafts.

-

little more info on that cam tool. First screw in the part of the tool intended for the exhaust camshaft (drilled hole)

-

Then carefully turn the exhaust camshaft clockwise with the camshaft adjustment tool until the intake camshaft tool can be applied (threaded hole)

-

Install the intake camshaft adjustment tool

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

First pass ............................................................ 20 Nm Second pass ........................................................... 60 Nm Final pass ...................................................... Tighten 130°

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Cam lobes with zero settings.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

looks pretty good, id like to see the one on right face the left a bit more, but if thats zero. that zero

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

well hows it going?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Yesterday I put back the heads, now I'm torquing the center bolt for the camshaft sproket and vvt. Your manual says 120 NM, but would the camshaft tool be strong enough to hold that much force, or can I hold the camshaft from somewhere to apply the 120 NM.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

you can hold the cam with a wrench there should be a pace for a wrench on the cam somewhere

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
What do you think about the timing marks on the camshafts and crankshaft.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

looks good to me bubba

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ok, I felt it looked like have a tooth out, but I will try it like that.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

rotate it manually just to make sure everything comes back to marks

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Rotated twice and took new pics.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

you're good my friend

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Alright, got done putting it back together and still car won't start. Checked compression and got the following:
1 Cyl- 85
2 Cy- 60
3 Cyl- 90
4 Cyl - 60
5 Cyl - 90
What else Can we try.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

what!!! that compression is horrible!!! anything under 120 is horrible........holy hell.

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

does it sound like it wants to start?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
It tries to start, but it doesn't.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

you getting fuel? spark?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
let's resume on Monday, I will make sure I get both fuel and sparks.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

ok, but im worried about those compression readings. are you holding the gas pedal to the floor while doing it? and letting it cycle at least 5 times?

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

checking in to see how its going?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Good news, this morning we poured a little bit of oil in each cylinder and the car turned on. The check engine light is on, I'm going to read the codes next.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

thats really not good news if the compression came up enough to start the car. that means the pistons rings are shot.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Before I took it apart, the car ran ok. I started having issues when I decided to change the cam seals without using the tool. Bought the tool later and you and I started the long discussion thread. I'm waiting for the car to burn all the oil inside the combustion chamber and see how it reacts next.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

what did the compression come up to when you added oil?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ok, checked the compression once again and after I added oil to de cylinders.
1 cyl - 90
2 cyl - 95
3 cyl - 90
4 cyl - 95
5 cyl - 90
Cel code is P0340
Took it for a test drive and it feels it doesn't have any power the first three seconds after you push the pedal down or accelerate.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

piston rings are shot

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
How could have the rings gotten shot if it worked fine prior to working on the cam seals?
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

well it ran good enough before on the low compression because it was timed correctly. i think since it looked 1/2 off on one cam and the compression is low, thats what the issue is.

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

normally on a healthy engine a 1/2 tooth doesnt matter.

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

checking in to see how its going?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have to get it right somehow, it worked fine before. I'm going back to try to get the 1/2 tooth off for the timing. I just hope is not vvt related.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

just start from scratch

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Yeap, im going to remove timing belt and try again until marks are perefectly aligned. I'm just hopping the vvt doesn't require any especial setting as far as I know, or should I be concern about its proper alignment as well?
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

getting ridiculous aint it?

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

the vvt's only need to match up with the colored links. the only mark you need to worry about is the crank

Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

hows it going?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I went back and did the timing again, this time the intake showed one tooth off and the exhaust looks aligned. See pics.
With this setting, the car has power and no codes shows up in the computer, however, I heared a ticking sound from the vvt when it was cold. Waiting to cool off and see if the vvt still makes a sound, if it does, I will Try it again.
Expert:  david craig replied 10 months ago.

ok bud, how about accepting the answer and leaving a 5 star rating. ill keep thid open sfter you rate me. no problem ....thanks