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If a road is adopted by the local council, can parking

If a road is...

If a road is adopted by the local council, can parking enforcement companies come along later and issue PCNs?

Lawyer's Assistant: Can you tell me what state this is in? And do you know who owns the lot?

The road and paths are fully made up, and it was the land owners who informed us that the local council had adopted and parking would be monitored by the local council

Lawyer's Assistant: Do you need to appear in court?

Not yet. I have received two letters from debt recovery company. Both said that court action might be taken, but then the first letter which 'expired' 30th August said the same thing as the second which 'express' tomorrow!

Lawyer's Assistant: Anything else you want the lawyer to know before I connect you?

Presumably all this remains anonymous and won't appear as an example online? I like to remain 'under the radar'

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9/13/2017
Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: UK Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 71,547
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.
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Are they acting on behalf of the local council?

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Not that I'm aware of. The letter sent by the landowner said the road had been adopted and would be monitored by Norwich City Council. The signs along the road are those that have always been there from National Parking Enforcement. Nothing about them acting on behalf of Norwich CC

Have you asked the council?

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Sorry, not sure if the £25 I've paid is for a free trial as I keep getting flashes on screen about it?

You will need to email customer service on***@******.*** about the exact amount you have paid but this is a paying site so you would be paying for this information.

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
OK. Am I able to come back to you, as part of this initial exchange, once I've established if Norwich CC are using NPE to enforce parking restrictions?
Customer reply replied 11 months ago
OK. Am I able to come back to you, as part of this initial exchange, once I've established if Norwich CC are using NPE to enforce parking restrictions?The parking ticket issued does not mention Norwich CC, only that it was on the land of Norwich City Football Club. Would not the ticket indicate that NPE were acting on behalf of the Council?
Customer reply replied 11 months ago
The parking ticket issued does not mention Norwich CC, only that it was on the land of Norwich City Football Club. Would not the ticket indicate that NPE were acting on behalf of the Council?
Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Hello. Are you still there?

Yes, but I thought you were ascertaining your position with customer services?

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Sorry, first time of using this service, so not sure on the mechanics.One observation, re-my parking query. The parking ticket issued does not mention Norwich City Council, only that it was on the land of Norwich City Football Club. Would not the ticket indicate that NPE were acting on behalf of the Council?

No, not necessarily.

They do contract out sometimes. They would have to contract out lawfully though so that these private land agents are effectively acting as an agent of the state.

You can ask the council to confirm. They should tell you over the phone but if they won't then you can put in a SAR.

Or you could appeal on that basis.

If this is a PCN then the reduction will be frozen after your first appeal.

Can I clarify anything for you?

Jo

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
This was a Parking Charge Notice not a Penalty Charge Notice. Surely the Council would not be using sub contractors to issue Parking Charge invoices? I did contact Norwich City Football club, as I am a customer and they said that they would speak to NPE as a goodwill gesture. That would indicate to me that NPE are working on behalf of the football club, not the City Council.Assuming the Council have not sub contracted out, and I should be able to have that confirmed tomorrow, then the Charge issued by NPE is invalid?

No, I cannot agree with that.

It would not invalidate it.

It just changes the issuing basis.

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
OK, then it hinges on the City Council. I will contact them tomorrow.
What's a SAR?

Subject access request.

Arising from the freedom of information legislation.

But i'm sure they will just tell you.

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
If they answer that they have not subcontracted to NPE, then am I correct in thinking that the PCN is invalid on the basis it is not the responsibility of NPE?

No, it is not that simple.

It is very unlikely it is invalid entirely.

It depends on the ownership of the land, whether this is covered by the TMO etc etc.

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
TMO = Traffic Management Order.
So, if the City Council have adopted the road does this mean the ownership of the land transfers to them.

If the council own the road then only they or their agents can issue fines upon it.

Then it would have to be subcontracted.

In principle that doesn't mean it couldn't be a private land fine but then the company would need to be renting from them - like a cinema complex.

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Thanks. Am I able to continue this discussion once I've established the status of the road from the Council?

Yes, no problem. I'm in court in the morning but it is just mentions so I'll be back by the afternoon

I'm happy to continue with this but please rate my answer.

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Have spoken to Council. They have not subcontracted parking enforcement to NPE.NPE are therefore acting on behalf of Norwich City Football Club, who own some of the adjacent land. The Football Club wrote to residents in May saying that there is no parking on the road and that Norwich City Council would shortly begin to enforce against illegal parking. That would suggest to me they accepted the Council were the legal enforcers.If it goes to court, what are my chances?

.

Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: UK Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 71,547
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.
Verified
Jo C. and 87 other UK Traffic Law Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Have spoken to Council. They have not subcontracted parking enforcement to NPE.NPE are therefore acting on behalf of Norwich City Football Club, who own some of the adjacent land. The Football Club wrote to residents in May saying that there is no parking on the road and that Norwich City Council would shortly begin to enforce against illegal parking. That would suggest to me they accepted the Council were the legal enforcers.If it goes to court, what are my chances?
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