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bigduckontax
bigduckontax, Accountant
Category: UK Tax
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How may I include the cost of my training course in CT600

Customer Question

How may I include the cost of my training course in CT600 form?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Tax
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

Hi

It may not be allowable at all - could you advise what your trade is and what the course enabled you to do

For example did it provide you with the ability to offer new services and therefore a greater profit

OR was it a refresher course or building on an existing skill?

Was this just for you - so more of a personal cost and who paid for it - you or directly from your company

Please advsie further

Thanks

Sam

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi, it is allowable as per this https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-training-payments/whats-exempt.Where in the CT600, I can submit it?thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-training-payments/whats-exempt
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

Hi

You do not submit it via the CT600 - you show the payment made under employee expenses and then provide yourself with a P11d (to declare the paid benefit) which you then show the benefit provided on your self assessment along with the claim to Zero it as an expenses (also through your self assessment)

I cannot comment whether its exempt as you have told me nothing about the training or what it was for, so I accept you have satisfied yourself that it is exempt.

Thanks

Sam

You do this this long winded way as its a personal expense and not a company expense

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Lets assume it exempt and as per HMRC link which comes from HMRC website A to Z expenses.
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-training-payments/whats-exempt2. What's exemptYou don’t have to report anything to HMRC or pay tax and National Insurance if either of the following apply:
the employee is in work-related trainingI do not need to submit anything. But how can I show it in company tax return as an expense?Thanks
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

HI

You still have to report it if you are letting the company "cover" its cost - which is a separate issue completely from an individual - you have asked the question from the companies perspective - and I have advsied that its an employee cost for the CT600 (so one would assume you wish to claim the cost from your trading profits)

But then you have report it to HMRC as the company has claimed it and it nees to be advsied to HMRC that its a payment made by the company for the employee by way of a report on the P11d - which then shows its exempt from Class 1A Employer National Insurance and then you as the employee have to report the P11d information through your self assessment - to show

1) You had this paid for you BUT

2) its exempt

Thanks

Sam

Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

Or do you earn less than £8500

in which case you would need P9d

Thanks

Sam

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
My question is that "where in the CT600 form" the company (employer) can show this expense? I will submit P11D but self assessment is employee responsibility.
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

Hi

And I have advised you - under the employee costs - (along with salaries/wages) and Class 1A National Insurance which are then deducted for the final figures to be shown on the CT600

Thanks

Sam

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It is paid straight to the college not to employee.
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

Hi

That makes no difference the advise still stands (it just then has a cash value rather than money paid directly to the employee)

Thanks

Sam

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
what is you comment about HMRC wording below:2. What's exemptYou don’t have to report anything to HMRC or pay tax and National Insurance if either of the following apply:the employee is in work-related trainingIt says employer does not have to report anything to HMRC or pay tax and National Insurance.thanks
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

OK let me make this really simple

You are claiming these costs from the profits of the company - so you can show you, the company are out of pocket

- Yes?

Then you have paid this for the employee and HMRC know you have claimed this for the employee so it then has to be linked to the employee whilst also telling HMRC its exempt - Yes?

So the advise I give you ensures ALL those remits are met considering you still fail to tell me what the training was for - so I have to assume it is exempt

This ensures

1) you get the costs for the employee and do not suffer Class1 A NI for making good this amount

2) The employee remains exempt for the cost of you provising this training

Its not been provided to all employees (such as in house training which would of course need NO reporting anywhere other than the costs you suffer to provide )

I am ex HMRC - and am not going to waste your time doing something you do not need to

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thank for your advices. But what you are advising me is against HMRC wording in its website regarding not "to report anything to HMRC or pay tax and National Insurance"I am confused.
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

No its not - its telling you what to do when providing training and whats exempt - you did not provide this training you sent ONE employee out to undertake training and paid for it!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
From1. OverviewAs an employer providing training expenses for your employees, you have certain tax, National Insurance and reporting obligations.What’s included
the cost of training
related costs, eg books or travel expenses while trainingIt talk about travel expenses, so HMRC says employer can sent employees for training.Am I right?thanks
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.

I shall opt out as you are not taking any notice of what I am advising and we are just going round in circles, I have answered your question beyond your original question and you still are not accepting the difference.

I shall let another expert assist and maybe they will give you the answer you wish to hear.

Thanks

Sam

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
thanks any way
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
my email is***@******.***
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 year ago.

Hello, I am Keith, one of the experts on Just Answer, and pleased to be able to givesome assistance.

The general rule is that if the trianing is to enhance existing skills it is allowable against tax, but if it is to acquire new skkills it is not so allowable.

I do hope that I have cleared the air for you in this matter.

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 year ago.

It would merely be included as part of the company's expenses in calculating Box 3 on the Short Return.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Keith,Thanks for your reply,As my company provide consultancy service in electronics, I sent my electronics expert to a course to improve his knowledge in the same field and to be able to provide more efficient service to my clients. I also paid only part of course expenses which was relevant to the jobs.So, I assumed that the expense is exempt from National Insurance and reporting P11D.As I am using HMRC online tax return service, in the section of "Expenses" form Box CP15 to CP44, I was not be able to find any option for expense of training course. The Box3 in CT600 short is also not relevant as it is "Trading and professional profits".Hence, I would appreciate if you could clarify again how or where in the online tax return form I can submit the training course expenses.Regards
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 year ago.

You would merely pay the Training costs out of company funds and ultimately they would be charged to the Profit and Loss Account.

I suggest that no P11D entry is required; the ccmpany has not made any payments which would be construed as a 'benefit in kind' which is what is usually reported on the Form P11D.

Please be so kind as to rate me before you leave the Just Answer site.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for your advice,Could you please refer me to a specific Box in online tax return form for Cost of training?Regards
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 year ago.

Are you using the short or long version of the form?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 year ago.

Forget that last request!

There isn't a specific box for you to enter this data. By passing it through the company's books it will reduce the profit which you enter at Box 155.