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Have citroen c5 III, 2.0 hdi, 103kw. There are some strange…

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Hi, have citroen c5 III, 2.0...
Hi,
have citroen c5 III, 2.0 hdi, 103kw.
There are some strange noises coming from engine on idle and also when driving sometimes is a little rough.
With tester delphi ds150 I found the engine has error: P1351 preheating relay controller and glow plugs not supplied.
Lookin live data on idle I get next information:
air mass-480 mg/injection
air mass reference value: 306mg/injection
correction cylinder number 1: -60,78 us
correction cylinder number 2: 56,86 us
correction cylinder number 3: 9,8 us
correction cylinder number 4: 5,88 us
I went on a drive looking what is with egr and get that egr system regulation was not active even when car was on working temperature. Egr position was all the time 0%.
Then I stopped and turn the engine off and on again. Now the egr started to work and also the air mass value was much closer to desired value.
My question is as there is no error if this is this really bad EGR or is anything else. Are injectors values fine?
Submitted: 1 month ago.Category: UK Car
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Answered in 1 hour by:
3/23/2018
UK Auto Mechanic: Matt, Mechanical Engineer replied 1 month ago
Matt
Matt, Mechanical Engineer
Category: UK Car
Satisfied Customers: 22,920
Experience: BEng hons Mech engineering, in auto industry 22 years
Verified

Hello and welcome to Just Answer

I'd check that you're getting full power to the glow-plugs, they pull a lot of current so take care when checking but see if the relay is clicking when the ignition is turned on first and also check the fuse if this is OK check to see if the engine earth strap is also OK.

If the plugs haven't been changed in the last 20K then they may have to be replaced.

You can test the glow-plugs with a multimeter by measuring the resistance across the plug ( between the power connection and the body) it should be around 4-8ohms if its tending to infinity / open circuit the plug is faulty or by using a clip on current clamp, either on the supply wire to glow plugs or onto engine earth, with glow plug light on you should see 15-20amps for each glow plug fitted, 4 cylinders would be approximately 60-80amps.

the injector correction figures aren't anything to worry about as each injector flows a little differently

I'd say the reason for the rough running is the EGR so check the connections to the EGR valve, if either the vacuum pipe of electrical connection are damaged / corroded then the EGR can be on all time which certainly will hurt performance. Its also possible that its a fault with the EGR valve so its worth removing the valve and cleaning it out with brake cleaner, if it looks particularly clogged then replace it.

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UK Auto Mechanic: Matt, Mechanical Engineer replied 1 month ago

My goal is to give you the best advice that I can and I hope that I've helped today. Please remember to rate my service by selecting from the 5 stars at the top of the screen before you leave. If you need more help, use the reply box to let me know.

If you're not pleased, also let me know because rating bad does not result in a refund, there are better options. Rating now will not close this post nor prevent further replies

Thanks Matt

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Hi Matt
thanks for reply. What about an air mass? Is this difference because egr is not working? Can you get a manual how to remove it as it looks quite a lot of work. Citroen C5, 2011, 2.0 HDI, 103KW, ENGINE RHR
UK Auto Mechanic: Matt, Mechanical Engineer replied 1 month ago

Hello

Yes I'd agree that the difference in the measured air mass and the expected air mass is almost certainly down to a stuck EGR

so fixing the valve so it move freely and so seal shut when required or blanking it off will resolve the issue

this video shows how to access the valve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdsexBbxW44

the video is for the 1.6 engine but the valve removal is the same

alternatively you coudl just blank the valve off with a thin sheet of steel blank plate

like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/121412051971?chn=ps&dispItem=1&adgroupid=51456964475&rlsatarget=pla-429319278204&abcId=1130086&adtype=pla&merchantid=113702619&poi=&googleloc=1006656&device=c&campaignid=1029031424&crdt=0

its a good idea to drill a small 3mm hole through the middle to provide a small amount of flow to avoid issues with check engine lights etc

but not enough to give running issues

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Hi Matt,
I removed it and found out it is not so dirty that it could not be moved because by hand it is moving free and it holds water. I am not fan of removing it. Now I am not sure anymore if the problem of strainge noises is egr.
Before removing it I disconected it and get next:
P2143- electric egr valve control. Valve open. Open circuit, Permanent
P0406-egr valve circuit. Position repeat voltage too high. Permanent.
The egr has 5 pins. I would like to test it. Which pin is for what. Egr number is(###) ###-####
Now as it looks the egr was closed on idle and I still have more air mass then computer wanted. What would be the reason for this. On higher revs the difference was: wanted 388 and actual 624mg/injection.
But why is there no erorr? or is this normal?
what can cause on idle the air mass is higher than wanted?Preposition that egr is closed?
What do you recommend how to proceed? I really do not want to buy new egr and than the problem is not solved.
UK Auto Mechanic: Matt, Mechanical Engineer replied 1 month ago

Hello

this video shows the test procedure for the valve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdlMx_ADlv8

if its not stuck then I'd say to try blanking the valve air path off so exhaust gas cannot get back to the inlet as I've already mentioned

It would also be worthwhile checking for vacuum leaks

Check the hose clips for tightness and inspect the trunking for any cracks or splits and also all the vacuum system, the small bore pipes and fittings for cracks and missing parts.

The best way to locate a leak is to have the engine running and warm and then spray lighter gas /propane or brake cleaner around each joint in turn. If the engine rev's up you've found your leak.
Now you might think that spraying lighter gas around a hot engine isn’t wise, however the flash /ignition point of gas is about 400°C so you need a naked flame or spark to set it off and I’ve used this method for many years without incident.
Work your way through each possible joint one at a time and you should find it. I use a slightly flattened piece of brake pipe and some rubber hose from the can of lighter gas to provide a spraying 'wand' and allow a direct blast of gas into each area, especially those difficult to reach with large implements.

Air leaks are very temperature dependent as gaps can open up as things expand with temperature so depending on how the leak occurs ( on a hose joint with a clamp expansion will help seal and on a vacuum hose expansion will make a leak worse) so leaks can be better or 1 vacuum leak path that you won't find with the above test is if the brake servo is leaking
so try clamping off servo hose to see if this has any effect

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