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I've got a passenger seat occupancy sensor-related problem.

Customer Question
I've got a passenger seat...
I've got a passenger seat occupancy sensor-related problem. The passenger airbag "off" light stays on all the time, even when an adult sits in the seat and the seatbelt is latched.
Submitted: 7 months ago.Category: Toyota
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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
It appears that the passenger seatbelt alarm is not working either.So my conclusion is that either the seat weight sensor(s) needs recalibration or the weight sensor(s) is not working. And it seemed like the best way to determine what is going on was to have the dealer do a diagnostic scan (for a lot of $). I took the car in today and was told that their diagnostic scanner could not communicate with the occupancy sensor, but they did somehow determine that the car thinks there is a child in the seat and the belt is latched. They say more testing at considerably more expense would be required to pinpoint the problem.I haven’t picked up the car yet, so I’m not sure what further to ask the dealer to do as part of the initial diagnostic test (or what diagnostic printout I should ask them to give me), or what else I should do. Oh, and this is a Vibe, not a Matrix, and it’s being “serviced”at a GM dealer.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I've pushed/held seat belt buckle in receptacle (no change); I don't see any loose connectors, although i have not removed the seat; SRS light in instrument cluster is not on, except when I replaced my occupancy sensor with a recycled one; both SRS and “airbag off” lights stayed on with recycled occupancy sensor; no codes are thrown when I use SRS scanner; car horn is fine (so not clockspring, I imagine); adjusting steering wheel height doesn't change anything; car has not been in accident.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
SKYVISIONS??
Answered in 8 hours by:
12/22/2017
Toyota Mechanic: Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago
Skyvisions
Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 14,993
Experience: Toyota Master Diagnostic
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Just to clarify you're saying that when you turn the key to the on position the little red SRS warning light in the instrument cluster does not illuminate for approximately four to six seconds then go out? There's no light indicator at all? When you check for SRS codes how did you check them? Do you have a scan tool that will interface with the SRS ECU?
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Toyota Mechanic: Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago
Did you try to use a jumper wire in the terminal pins CG and TC of the diagnostic port connector under the instrument panel? Then read The Flash pattern of the SRS light when the key is turned to the on position? Do you get any two digit codes displayed?
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Toyota Mechanic: Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago
Did the dealership run a complete health check and-store the date of when they ran the health check? If they do I can look at the information online with the vehicle identification number. Have them run a complete health check storing all the DTC information. Did they say whether or not the SRS ECU is communicating on the can Network? Or is it just the occupancy to classification computer that will not respond?
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
SRS light goes on for a second or two or three as part of start up and then goes out. When I replaced my occupancy sensor with recycled sensor, SRS stayed on. I used scanner (actually two different scanners) both of which are supposed to interface with SRS ECU; I also previously took car to car electrical shop and his scanner tool (he had better model with keys) did not show any codes either. I did not try jumper wire. I will ask dealership this morning about what they did when I go pick up car. Thanks.
Toyota Mechanic: Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago
Sorry had a family emergency I will review the information and get back with you this evening
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Picked up car from dealer this morning. They don't do online health check---they use something called TECH2 (I guess the GM version of Techstream).The only historic DTC they saw was B1650 (and then it disappeared); I'd bet that that code popped up when i installed bad recycled passenger occupant sensor; so that's a red herring, i believe.
It's the occupancy to classification computer that won't respond (so they couldn't recalibrate the seat sensor);; they didn't check on ECU communication on can network.They were able to generate SIR (live) Data. They gave me screenshots, showing two problems: Occupant Detection Sens Child; and Passenger Seat Belt Swi Buckled.On invoice, technician wrote: "Intermittent loss of communication with the module. Performed a global reset of all module."Oh, SRS light stays on for one second when i start car, and then disappears.I should note that I temporarily installed a third occupancy sensor two days ago. It didn't fix the problem and the SRS light did not come on, like it did with the recycled sensor.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
when i turn ignition to "on" position without starting car, SRS light stays on for about 5 seconds, and then disappears.
Toyota Mechanic: Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago
How much detail do you want me to get into here? Do you have a voltmeter and know how to use it to check a few things aside from what the dealer has done?
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
i don't have a 12-volt voltmeter, but i can buy one. i can probably figure out what you want me to test. so, sure, let's try it.i really wanted to take my car to a toyota dealer (where I thought they'd have had more experience with Aisin systems), but local dealer didn't want to work on Vibe.
Toyota Mechanic: Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago

First try to pull codes the old fashioned way. Locate the DLC3 connector under the dash on the drivers side. insert a jumper wire in the pins indicated. then turn the key on and monitor the flash pattern of the SRS light. If for example there is a code 21 it will flash 2 times then one flash. if the are other codes they will follow. Let me know what the numbers are. If there are no codes the light will flash steady and continuous.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
will do in the morning when i can see better, and will report back to you. thanks.
Toyota Mechanic: Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago
That will be fine I have family holiday functions over the weekend will have limited time but post the information back when you can and I'll research it a little further
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Will do. And I'm told my harbor freight multimeter will be fine for using on the car. Thanks.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
appears to be one code: 32
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
my innova 31603 continues to not show any codes.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Skyvisions?
Toyota Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago
Mechanic01
Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 3,326
Experience: Owner at Baltic investments
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just opt of the question for another expert and I can help

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I want Skyvisions
Toyota Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago

I dont think hes online thats why it went to the other techs. but ill put it back up and let you wait for him

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I guess unfortunately Skyvisions is gone. Still need to troubleshoot my problem which, in a nutshell, is "Passenger Airbag OFF" light is always on. SRS warning light is not on.No codes thrown using my scanner. Dealer saw B1650 (in history); I did try different passenger occupant sensors before going to dealer---one caused SRS light to go on, until I replaced it with my original sensor.Dealer also generated SIR (live) Data, showing two problems: Occupant Detection Sens Child; and Passenger Seat Belt Swi Buckled. DLC3 connector gives me one code: 32.
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago
Peter Bagley
Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 1,293
Experience: master tech at Toyota dealer
Verified

Hello and welcome to just answer, my name is ***** ***** master tech of over 40 years experience here to help. I cannot see or hear your vehicle so I rely on your patience and input to my questions so I can help you better.I have read your notes and have a question before we proceed.

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

Do you still wish assistance?

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
please be patient with me. i want to troubleshoot the problem---and i got left hanging----but my experience reading diagrams is almost non-existent.
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

that is no problem as it is hard trying to do this over the internet as well so we can be patient with each other

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

My goal is to give you the best experience possible! I hope I have earned a 5 star rating! Please remember to rate my service by selecting the 5 stars at the top of the screen before you leave today. If you need more assistance, please use the reply box and let me know. In the process of helping you I will use sources from all different places that I feel fit and to the point that will speed up my help for you. This may include links, videos, shop notes and procedures as well as my own personal experience of over 40 yrs in the trade.

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

give me a bit to go over my info for your vehicle on this issue. brb ASP

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
btw, this is the better of our two cars. so it's off to a new year's day party (unlike me), and i won't be able to check anything on it until much later. but hopefully, i can get you up-to-speed with the problem and what i've done to date, and i'll know what the next steps are.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
again, it's a Vibe, not a Matrix.
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

that is ok , it is OBD which is generic code readings for all makes and manufactures. If it has not been in a collision or does not have any TSB's applicable to this vehicle then all that is needed is to re-calibrate it. I can send you a video even though it is a different vehicle is the same process for yours.Keep in mind you need a scanner that is capable in doing so.

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
no collision; no TSB for this problem for this model/year. But dealer was unable to recalibrate, and he had expensive scanner. Said there was communication problem. i have innova 31603 which can read SRS codes; however it was unable to read any codes (even though i got a code with using jumper, and the dealer saw a code that then disappeared).
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

check this then, read carefully;

Recall Number

15V285000

Recall Date

05/13/2015

Component

AIR BAGS

Summary

Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing (Toyota) notified the agency on May 13, 2015 that they are recalling certain model year 2004 Sequoia vehicles manufactured August 18, 2003, to August 19, 2004, and 2003-2004 Tundra vehicles manufactured March 18, 2003, to August 25, 2004. On June 16, 2015, Toyota expanded the recall to include an additional 1,270,468 vehicles, including model year 2002-2003 and 2005-2007 Sequoia, 2005-2006 Tundra, 2003-2007 Corolla, 2003-2007 Corolla Matrix, 2003-2007 Pontiac Vibe and 2002-2007 Lexus SC vehicles. This is to address a safety defect in the passenger side frontal air bag inflator which may produce excessive internal pressure causing the inflator to rupture upon deployment of the air bag. This recall addresses both the passenger side frontal air bags that were originally installed in the vehicles, as well as replacement air bags that may have been installed as replacement service parts. A replacement air bag may have been installed, as one example, if a vehicle had been in a crash necessitating the replacement of the passenger side frontal air bag.

Consequence

In the event of a crash necessitating deployment of the passenger's frontal air bag, the inflator could rupture with metal fragments striking the vehicle occupants potentially resulting in serious injury or death.

What Owners Should Do

Toyota will notify their owners. Pontiac Vibe owners will be notified by GM. Dealers will replace the front passenger air bag. The recall began on July 13, 2015. Toyota owners may contact Toyota customer service at 1-***-***-****. Pontiac owners may call 1-***-***-****. NOTE: This recall supersedes recall 14V-312 in its entirety.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
that was an airbag recall, and the work was done. dealer couldn't recalibrate with techstream tool, so i don't think even if i had a snap-on or some other tool i'd be successful with that approach.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
sorry, not techstream (toyota), but tech2 (gm).
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

I understand but if it cannot be re- calibrated then the Ecm might be at fault if you already tried the occupancy sensor, but you said it did make a difference with the other one , my question id was calibration attempted with the replacement as that needs to be done when replacing those parts?

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

In the mean time let me check our manuals and see what I can come up with. brb.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
one sensor i tried was recycled, and it generated the srs light. i put in another one, and srs light went off. but airbag off light continued. recalibration wasn't tried with second sensor. dealer said no reason to believe that it was a bad sensor. he generated live data about child being in seat and seat belt being latched (when neither was going on).
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
no
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

Did you intact check the resistance readings between the used censor in the seat and your original one to see if there was any difference as that used one could be faulty. I would check out both against a new one just to compare then I would be looking checking the wires going to the ECM from that seat sensor. If all that checks out then try another SRS ECM

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

I could send you diagrams of the system but that might be all another language for you so just trying to keep it as simple as I can.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
i think first used seat sensor was faulty; that's why i got srs light. but problem has been localized, i think, to latch and to child-in-seat/weight. how do i check wiring for that?
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

what you can do is do a resistance check at the seat censor with the connector disconnected and apply weight to the seat and see what it reads. please remember your working on a srs system and it can be dangerous and costly if you fail to follow proper safety procedures. You have to disconnect the battery for at least 15-20 seconds before any tests are done.

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

do not attempt ant tests when battery is hooked up as this may deploy your air bags.

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Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

then do a resistance check from the seat censor wiring to the ecm If any of that fails you in for a harness repair but if all those tests are ok then the ecm may need replacing.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
2 different plugs, each with a bunch of wires, go into seat sensor. not sure how to test that.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
where i was hoping all this would lead to is directions as to how check applicable wiring.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
or even someone saying, "you know, this is an aisin system and when you see these kinds of problems and clues with aisin
we usually find the problem in the ___________."
Toyota Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 6 months ago

usually quick fixes and suggestions end up costing unnecessary costs and time as they require tedious testing to make sure to replace or repair the right item. In your case trying to do something your self that is also a dangerous system to work on the only advise I would recommend to try another ECM or center airbag sensor which controls it all, Or have the trained people at the dealer do it . There is no one part in this system that is a common fault for me to say do this. But from my experience working on asian vehicles usually the connectors and wiring s are rarely a problem unless damaged from some reason. So in closing if you would compare the seat censors and find them ok Then I would suggest trying the SRS ECM

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