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Ask Skyvisions Your Own Question
Skyvisions
Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 14417
Experience:  Toyota Master Diagnostic
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Power to fuel pump on #1 terminal but pump won't run. Put

Customer Question

Power to fuel pump on #1 terminal but pump won't run. Put power to 4 and ground 5 pump runs. 2000 Toyota avalon
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Toyota
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No fuel to rail. Would start and run for 3 to 4 seconds at first then miss and die
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Toyota said code was ecm needed replaced or reset
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Do you have the code number or and the VIN available? Do you have the color codes of the wires to the pins you are referring to?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Code was 1351 I believe
1 brown 4 white n black 5 blue n black. Vin 4t1bf28b9yu071254
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Can't hear or feel pump when cranking
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Are you 100% certain that the dealership told you the ECM needed replaced? A P1351 code means that the valve timing is off usually it means the timing of his jump time. This is a mechanical problem with the camshaft to crankshaft correlation timing.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Replaced the crankshaft sensor. If it was out of time would it start and run perfectly for 3 or 4 seconds. Before sputtering and dying also all the Gauges quit working about 3 to 4 days before it started this. Had to jump it then ran for couple more days with no Gauges then just quit
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
C1351
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Yes that could be a possible scenario if the time timing belt is one tooth or two teeth or one of the sensor reluctor wheels gets damaged it can cause the vehicle to try and start then shut down. This should have nothing to do with the gauges quitting working though. That could be an additional electrical problem. In order for this code to set it has to be strictly a mechanical problem a malfunctioning camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor sets a totally different code. This also will shut down power to the fuel pump potentially also. I am looking in to the wiring diagram I will get back with you some thoughts about the voltages that you have and just to clarify you saying that pin number five the blue wire with a black tracer does have 12 V to it or not with the key in the start position? A C1351 code is something totally different that is a malfunction in the ABS pump motor circuit. That would have nothing to do with the starting condition and only what effect ABS. I found no service history of this vehicle at the dealership regarding any of these codes.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Only pin #1 brown has power to it in the on position. I put power to 4 and ground 5 and the pump would run
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

The three smaller wires in that electrical connector are used for the fuel sending unit. The two larger gauge wires blue with black and white with black are the two supply wires for the fuel pump itself. The blue with black has to have 12 V when the key is an on position. The white with black is the ground for the fuel pump. If you are supplying 12 V to the pin in the top of the connector going to the tank on the blue wire with a black tracer and the white wire with the black tracer that will make the pump run but if the blue wire with a black tracer at the connector itself is not getting 12 V the pump won't run and this could because of the timing belt being out of time. Or a problem with the crank gear or cam sensor gear. I will submit an additional service which will allow us to talk via the telephone it is additional cost but might be able to get this resolved a little quicker for you if you would like to do that you would need to accept that offer.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I believe I was wrong the orange wire on pin 3 had power with key on. I also think the battery may be shot could this be part of the problem or are you pretty sure it's jumped a tooth or two?
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

The orange wire is the 12 all power supply to the fuel sending gauge that is normal. The battery being low normally will not set any codes in the computer. It is a good idea to have the battery fully charged but then you need to have the upper timing cover removed so that you can check the timing belt timing to make sure that the cams are in time with each other and in time with the crankshaft. The code that you gave me is indicating that the front bank with the front camshaft is out of time or there is damage to one of the gears that send signal to the sensor. If the timing belt has never been done or is been more than 100,000 miles since the last time it was done that would be very suspicious as to be the problem.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Also ohm the ocv sand they ohmed good
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

That is definitely good to rule out but the oil control valves will not set this code. That is one of the steps in the diagnostic flowchart.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Timing belt was changed 70000 ago at 98000
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

The timing belt timing is the first place to start when you have this malfunction code that you have the 1351. You need to confirm that the code is still set in the computer. Do you have a code reader to check this?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Not at this time I borrowed one from oriellys. How big of a job to take off upper timing cover? I'm a miner not a mechanic lol
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

The timing cover itself is not too bad I've taken them off I can do in about 15 minutes. The upper mount on the passenger and fender has to be removed then there are a seven or 8 10 mm bolts around the upper plastic cover. The bottom couple towards the back of the engine where it hits the aluminum cover are a bit difficult to get to. Click this link is an overview of the complete timing belt removal and replacement but it will give you an idea of the layout of the upper cover. You may want to consider getting your own code reader. I can recommend a good one from Amazon if you're interested. They are less than $60 these days for a generic code reader.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Can I get back to you later after I've had chance to remove the cover? Might be a while as the Cubs game is on
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Yes, I will be online for about 2 hours yet this evening. It is not looking good for the Cubs :-(

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No it's not at all
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

The game is not going to be over by 11 you can get back to me tomorrow if you need anything else.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
do I just need to remove the number 2 cover as shown in the link?
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Correct just the upper no 1 cover

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The # ***** in the link looks like the Lower and I need to pull the camshaft pulley ?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok it's only 645 in montana
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

I may have miss read that it is the upper cover do not mess with the lower cover or the pulley.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Have taken out 6 bolts still can't seem to get cover off
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

There are two toward the back side by the firewall as you work your way around the cover and one down blow by the aluminum housing which is difficult to see and get to. Once you get all of the bolts out and is loose then it's just a matter of working it around to clear the bottom housing and the center mount assembly and it will come out. There are clips that hold the plastic wiring harness cover in place sometimes it's easier to pop those clips and move the harness up out of the way to give you a few extra inches to play with.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
That bottom back one is a bear still working on it
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Cover is off what am I looking for on timing marks
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

The crankshaft is at 0° on the timing scale on the pulley and the marks on the upper can gears that match up the indentations on the backing plate. See the instructions that I sent you it will show these marks and the alignment. If in doubt take a picture of the two upper gears and I will take a look at it. If the marks are 180° out turn the crankshaft 360° that will bring them back up about 12 o'clock position

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Says file set to private won't let me look at link again
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Try it now and save the file to your computer it will time out again.

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Click this link for a better picture and save it.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have the crankshaft at zero or real close attached pics show timing mark about 6 o'clock
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Turn the crank over 1 complete turn to bring the marks to the top on the cam gears.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Went around and back to zero
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
When I stopped the first time the mark on the belt was about 12
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I would say it's good what do you think
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

This one is good but I can not tell on the other cam gear due to the angle of the picture.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Here is a better pic
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Based on that second picture I would have to say that your timing marks are lined up and not out of time provided you are at 0° on the scale on the crankshaft pulley. Do You have a code reader or can you get one from O'Reillys again to confirm the current codes that would be set in the computer?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I will go down and see take me about 15 min or so
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

Will that code reader allow you to clear those codes and will they ever clear out? If you remove the negative battery cable to clear them will that work then try and restart the car and see if the same codes come back?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I've cleared codes and unhooked cables. Same codes come back
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Won't erase the 2 abs codes c 1351 or c1301
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

These two codes are indicating that there is a problem with the precharge motor or the pump in the ABS control unit. 1301 code is indicating the communications failure or problem from the engine control computer. Do you have a history of the car leading up to this current problem? Has any brake work been done? When you turn the key to the on position does the yellow check engine light illuminate?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the yellow light comes on and the back brakes were done about 6 months ago
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
At home and a auto shop did the front ones a couple weeks before the back
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

None of these codes in themselves should keep the engine from running. Provided your code reader is capable of reading engine codes it is curious that they will not set a malfunction code. If you disconnect one of the cam sensors or crank sensor and try and start the vehicle up can you get it to set a malfunction code in the engine control computer which would start with a P code? Are you sure you're using the code reader correctly to read engine codes not just ABS codes?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It said it was reading engine codes
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 1 year ago.

I am at a dead end on this one this will probably be a hands-on type repair.. I will opt out so that other experts can take a look at this. There are certain limitations in this format that cannot be overcome.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Pulled crank sensor no different code then the 2