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1995 Toyota Camry: 2.2L..Inline..FE) with no OBD II..die…

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I have a 1995 Toyota...
I have a 1995 Toyota Camry 2.2L Inline 4 (5S-FE) with no OBD II. The engine would start and immediately die. I suspected the IAC valve at first...so I removed and cleaned it. Again, the car would start and die. If I give it gas, it would still die. This eliminates IAC valve from being the cause.

I replaced the fuel filter and check the fuel pressure at the outlet of the fuel filter. I got 46 psi, which is slightly above spec of 38-44 psi. I disconnected fuel return line (outlet of fuel pressure reg) and plugged it. The pressure shot close to 60psi, which is expected. I concluded that fuel delivery system is fine.

So I read the diagnostic code...it gave me code 14. I followed the service manual procedure. I have found that the fail-safety of DTC14 is fuel system cut off....which describes what happens to me.

I disconnected a spark plug wire and put a new plug on the line and ground the body of the plug, then have a friend start the engine. I have spark.

I also checked the G and NE coils for resistance. All within specs.

Followed the DTC14 diagnostic procedure. Got continuity between pin 1 at igniter (white-red) to ECU connector E7 pin 3. Then I checked the voltage at E7-3 (while igniter is disconneced). Got 5V per spec.

Now, I replaced the igniter. The car still does the same thing. Re-run diagnostic. Still got code 14. What else can it be?
Submitted: 8 years ago.Category: Toyota
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Answered in 2 hours by:
6/28/2010
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago
Toyotapro
Toyotapro, ASE master tech
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There is a california and federal emission setup for this year, is the ignition coil external on this car or is it built into the distributor behind the cap?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
It is built into the distributor cap.
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago
Swap the entire distributor with a known good one and retest the car.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Checked continuity of primary and secondary - all within specs. Install distributor assembly. Same symptom, same DTC14 code. Swap to old igniter. Same symptom, DTC14. Re-checked continuity between igniter and coil (both pins of primary) - all checked out. Re-checked continuity of IGT and IGF line from ECU to igniter - all checked out. Re-connect everything, but igniter. Got 12V at pin 3 of igniter connector per service manual......I'm running out of ideas.
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I forgot to add. Installed NEW distributor.
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago
Was a repair done to cause this or just died while driving?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
No. I got home then the engine started to bog (as it was rolling in the driveway). Restart the engine, it worked fine....drove and parked. It bothered me. So I started it that night. It started up fine. The morning came, it started doing exactly what I described. Sprayed starting fluid....out of 5 starts, it will start once.....and then died by itself in like 5 minutes of idling (why I thought IAC at first without reading the code). After that, it'll never start again. My car doesn't smoke (so presumably healthy piston rings/block).

I started electrical isolation test (test the whole ignition circuit continuity against positive/negative terminal with battery disconnected and igniter, ignition coil, ECU harness disconnected). All checked fine so far except pin 3 at igniter...i have about 90 ohms to ground. I shouldn't have that according to the schematic in Engine Manual.

I went on and checked the Camry Wiring Manual. It indicates that after IP1 connector, at junction point E20, the circuits connects to a "Noise Filer (For Ignition System)". I'm guessing that's noise FILTER. If it's like any other noise filter, it would be made up of coil (inductor)....so continuity is expected (as continuity check is DC current based). I'm trying to locate this filter where it is, and I couldn't find it in the manual.

My guess is a few possibilities exists.

1. Bad ECU....may not necessarily be all bad, but possibly just IGF input is bad.
2. Bad noise filter, causing interference with IGF signal.

Other than that, I have no idea.
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Also to add, I wish I have an O-scope. I can easily test the health of IGF/IGT signals, but I don't have one nor an access to one.
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago

yes an osciloscope would be helpful but is not an option for most, usually only long standing and well experienced technicians have them or know how to use them.

I'm trying to think "outside the box" here to better help you find this issue, in most cases it would have been an internal distributor isson on this setup......when was the timing belt last serviced on this car?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Certainly overdue. Probably over 2 years ago. I guess I should inspect the belt.
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago
Not necessarily the belt.....what I am concerned about here is the plates that the cam and crank sensors read from the belt rotation to tell the computer when to fire spark and fuel.....when you use an osciloscope you are actually "watching" these signals....but what I am saying here is that for example lets say a tooth was chipped on the gear plate that the crank or cam sensor reads then it can cause codes like this.....the crank sensor watches the inner part of the pulley on the bottom and the cam sensor reads the camshaft...double check the timing belt and pullies before you get too complicated with this car and let me know what you find.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I'm looking and looking and can't find such sensor. To my understanding, Cam and Crank sensor (N/GE signals) resides within the distributor assembly (and their resistances have been checked out). Are you saying that there's another camshaft sensor on the Cam sprocket? That doesn't make sense to me that a vehicle would have 2 camshaft sensors.
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago

This is a CORELATION code, the car detects cam and crank position to time spark and fuel delivery.

What I am saying here is that if you have a damaged rank sensor or the wheel on the crank pulley is damaged then this can cause this as well. I would look very closely at the crank sensor and the plate/wheel on that pulley that it reads.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I took a few steps further. I disconnected the battery terminals (+ and -) and measure IGF against GND/+. Somehow there was 0.3V between IGF and +....but nothing between it and GND. Unfortunately, I can't check for resistance between IGF and + because how the ohmmeter works (Ohm's law - V = IR...you can't measure resistance correctly when voltage is present). In other word, continuity meter works by injecting voltage and measure the current or vice versa, to get resistance. You can try measuring continuity between two battery terminals.....it'll tell you that they're connected.

I cut the wire right at the igniter.....and at ECU (Connector E7 pin 3). I ran a separate wire....and voila....now she starts and run.

So some other circuit is interfering with IGF signal is all I can think of. What is it? I have no idea....but now she has her own separate wire for IGF....now I have to put the car back together.....
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago

Hello again.

I just refrenced the diagram again, looks like you cut out the white wire with the red tracer.....there are NO connectors and NO components between pin #1 of the igniter and pin 3 of the ECU, no noise suppressors, no diodes, nothing, this is also not a shielded wiring setup so my only thought here would be maybe a small knick somewhere on this wire that causes internal corrosion in the wire at one point in the wiring and resistance causing this.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I agree....or it forms some kind of capacitor or battery. You are correct that there is no noise filter. The noise filter is on pin 3 out of the igniter......and it rang out as such.

The reason I'm saying capacitor or battery is because I disconnected BOTH + and - terminals from the battery for 3 days. Before I make the measurement, I contacted + and - wires to discharge any electricity left from anything.....and no matter what I do, I still get that 0.3V. That is quite bizarre really. Accidental battery/capacitor is fairly easy to form....a lot of capacitors are made from metal oxide....aka rust.....or dielectric (in other word, plastic)....so even insulator can form great capacitor.

I'm actually surprised that for such critical signals (IGT AND IGF), the lines are not shielded.
Toyota Mechanic: Toyotapro, ASE master tech replied 8 years ago

on later model vehicles with seperated ignition coils a shielded wiring is more common, on these older ones you really only see it on crank positon sensors and cam sensors.

You already replaced the wire so there is no need to trace this further but I would would wonder given that these ignition systems are known for issues if maybe a wire overheated in this loom at some point and damged and arced this wire or there is always the possibility that a mouse chewed on the loom in the engine bay as we do see that commonly. Anyway just keep an eye on it for a while and see if any other codes pop up.

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