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Do you have any experience with a Form 8802 for a Living…

Do you have any...

Do you have any experience with a Form 8802 for a Living Trust (grantor trust) ?

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We've been told the trust had to obtain its own TIN but reading the instructions for the form, it seems like we can request it for the trust with the info for the grantors submitted. Need a residence verification for a client to receive withholding back from Swiss government

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Answered in 54 minutes by:
10/17/2017
socrateaser
socrateaser, Lawyer
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 40,060
Experience: Retired
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Hello,

If the grantor trust is owned solely by the grantor, no separate TIN is required, provided that the grantor trust reports its income and expenses annually on IRS Form 1041. Since the grantor trust would have to report on Form 1041, regardless of whether or not a TIN is obtained, the second requirement is irrelevant. The only relevant question is whether or not the grantor is the sole owner of the trust. If yes, no separate TIN is required. But, a TIN may be obtained as an option.

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
There would be no reason for a 1041 for a regular living trust, only if we have the separate TIN. It's just a traditional living trust set up and the grantor/trustee is living so we have used her SSN. I'm trying to find out of the IRS will issue the 6166 to certify residence if we don't file a separate tax return with a separate TIN. The instructions for the form read to me like they would certify based upon the grantor's residence and SSN which would be the desired outcome to avoid the TIN, separate reporting, and IRS confusion.

You stated that it was a "grantor trust" -- which is a specific type of trust, and not a revocable inter vivos trust (aka "living trust"). Regardless of the our miscommunication, there is nothing on Form 8802, nor in the Treas. Regs. that suggests that a separate TIN is required for a typical "living trust." Consequently, the answer here must be that an SSN is all that's required for purposes of the residency certification.

Note: You question effectively asks for proof of the negative -- i.e., evidence that the TIN is not required. Proof of a negative, is, as I'm pretty certain you're aware, effectively impossible -- especially when dealing with something as complex as the Internal Revenue Code. You have the only argument that matters, in my opinion: there's no regulation prohibiting the use of the SSN, which is routinely used to identify a revocable inter vivos ("living") trust.

I hope I've answered your question. Please let me know if you require further clarification. And, please provide a positive feedback rating for my answer (click 3, 4 or 5 stars) -- otherwise, Justanswer retains your entire payment, and I receive nothing for my efforts in your behalf. Note: If you cannot find the rating button on your webpage, please just type in your rating in a response to this note, and customer service will apply the rating for you.

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socrateaser
socrateaser, Lawyer
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 40,060
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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
All right. I was hoping to find out if this had been done successfully. Thank you for the replies.

You're welcome and thanks for using Justanswer!

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