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Lane
Lane, JD, CFP, MBA, CRPS
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 12659
Experience:  Law Degree, specialization in Tax Law and Corporate Law, CFP and MBA, Providing Financial & Tax advice since 1986
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I need help filling out form 8802 single member LLC---a

Customer Question

Customer: I need help filling out form 8802 for a single member LLC---a disregarded entity, DRE
JA: Thanks. Can you give me any more details about your issue?
Customer: do i fill out the form in my name or in the LLC's name?
JA: OK got it. Last thing — JustAnswer charges a fee (generally around $32) to post your type of question to Tax Experts (you only pay if satisfied). There are a couple customers ahead of you. Are you willing to wait a bit?
Customer: yes
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Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Tax
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Hi,

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I can help

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What's your question as it relates to the 8802?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What name shoukd be used for the applicant on form 8802 for a single member llc (dre)? The llc or the single member?
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

The single member ... because the LLC IS disregarded ... also you must use ITIN not EIN

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

SS number, of course, is ideal .... [Single Member] LLC only uses EIN for issues such as paying payroll taxes for its employees ... and some banks want an EIN for opening up a business account.

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But all reporting and request made to IRS for any disregarded entity should use the individual's tax ID

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
then how does line 4 get filled out? As an individual? (4a). Whats the point of line 4i?
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

See this from the Internal Revenue Internal Manual (I'll underline the pertinent part)

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Use the chart below to determine what TIN to enter in the Primary Applicant's Tax Identification Number field when the certification applicant is a Nominee, a FASIT, a Single Member LLC, a DRE-LLP, a DRE-LP, a Minor Child, a Q-Sub or a Sole Proprietor:

IfThen

A NomineeEnter the TIN of the individual or entity the Nominee represents.

A FASIT (financial asset securitization investment trust)/IRC § 860HEnter the TIN of the FASIT's Corporate Owner.

A DRE-LLC, DRE-LP , DRE-LLP, or DRE-LLLPEnter the TIN of the single member owner of the limited liability company, limited partnership, limited liability partnership, or limited liability limited partnership.

A Minor ChildEnter the TIN of the person who claimed the minor child on the tax return.

A Q-Sub (Qualified Subchapter S Subsidiary)Enter the TIN of the Subchapter S subsidiary's parent, Line 6 of Form 8802.

A Sole ProprietorEnter the TIN used to claim the income on the individual's tax return.

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Oh sorry, looks like we crossed there ... let me read

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

You'll check the following two boxes (note the the instructions say "Applicant is (check appropriate box(es)):"

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Box a, describing yourself and your status by checking the appropriate sub-box

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Box i, then checking the LLC sub-box

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Other questions?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok somdoes the name of the llc Appear anywhere on this?
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

No, it's disregarded... a single member LLC doesn't have residency, the member does.

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If you look at the instructions, page 3, under "Who Is Not Eligible for Form 6166," you'll see the single member LLC

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8802.pdf <- middle, toward the top, of page 3

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Hope this has helped … let me know if you have questions

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If this HAS helped, (and you don’t have additional questions on this), I'd really appreciate your positive rating … (by using the stars on your screen) … … That’s the only way I'll be credited a portion of what you've paid JustAnswer.

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Thank you,

Lane

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
basically im just getting cert form me? I wonder why they even ask about dre
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Just to connect the dots ... Information gathering ... This can also help when the other country doesn't understand that in the US a single member LLC is not a separate entity

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

The combination of boxes ( and remember this for is for a huge combination of different entities) puts you "where you belong in the system of categorization," so to speak ... a single member LLC, not JUST an individual ... For example, some STATES DO have requirements for Single member LLC's (such as an annual report, even though it may be a passthrough for state income tax as well)

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The systems all talk to each other these days

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Hope this has helped … let me know if you have questions

...

If this HAS helped, (and you don’t have additional questions on this), I'd really appreciate your positive rating … (by using the stars on your screen) … … That’s the only way I'll be credited a portion of what you've paid JustAnswer.

...

Thank you,

Lane

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

You're very welcome ... Your positive rating … (by using those the stars on your screen) … is thanks enough! … That’s how we’re credited for the work here

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Thank you,

Lane

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Hi,

I’m just checking back in to see how things are going.

Did my answer help?

Let me know…

Thanks

Lane

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I talked to the cert dept at the irs which is responsible for handling this stuff. Their "advice" was to file in the name of the llc and to use the ein as the tin. My name then wouldnt appear til box 6 as the owner. Needless to say i followed their advice but who knows?
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

That's COMPLETELY incorrect.

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What's happened here is you've talked to some clerk in an IRS call center and gotten completely erroneous information ... not at all uncommon.

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Best of luck to you

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I suspect u mau be right but we'll see
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

I recommend that you point out to them this: https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Single-Member-Limited-Liability-Companies

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And the instructions for the form itself that say that a Disregarded entity is not able to FILE the form ...You as the single member are

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This is the nature of a disregarded entity. (Disregarded for tax purposes)

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I would respectfully ***** ***** you rate me positively or I cannot be compensated for my time and expertise here ,,, If you do not rate me, then JA keeps everything ... IF you're not going to rate then you should ask for a refund

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Hi - I hold a JD (Juris Doctorate, a doctoral degree in the law), concentration in Tax Law & Corporate law, an MBA (specialization in finance & tax), and BBA from Mercer University’s Stetson School of Business and Economics, as well as CFP® and CRPS designations.

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I only offer this so that you can make an informed decision about whose advice you'd like to take ... and send in the form completed accurately.

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If you'll send in the form completed as I recommended you'll be pre-empting problems in the future.

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In my 30+ years of experience in this area I CAN tell you that this is one of the MOST common mistakes (not completely unrelated to the poor design of this form in an effort to catch ALL of the possible users, a VERY weak area in the bureaucracy that is IRS.

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I hope you'll take my advice ... Have a good evening

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks but with all due respect, the instruction do NOT say a dre is ineligible to file. The passage you referred to is conjunctive. A dre that does not have any US members is inelligible. That is, an org is inelligible if it is a DRE AND it has no US member according to the passage you referenced. (Page 3 i believe). Regardless, it is a screwed up form and set of instructions.
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

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Pasted directly from the instructions:(I'll underline the pertinent parts)

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"In general, you are not eligible for Form 6166 if, for the tax period for which your Form 6166 is based, any of the following applies:"

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You are a fiscally transparent entity organized in the United States (that is, a domestic partnership, domestic grantor trust, or domestic LLC disregarded as an entity separate from its owner) and you do not have any U.S. partners, beneficiaries, or owners.

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Again, the entity is not allowed ... the individual is ... enough back and forth, my friend.

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Best of luck ...

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Exactly. So a dre is inelligible only if it DOES NOT HAVE at least a US owner. I am a us citizen who owns my DRE. THus my DRE is NOT inelligible under that instruction
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

That was never disclosed ... very possibly a bad assumption on my part that you were a citizen of another country and needed this to show that you had passed the substantial rpesence test or had a green card ( the Other two ways that an individual is considered a US tax resident).

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Regardless, a disregarded entity still means that the LLC doesn't exist for tax purposes ... and the form should be filled out accordingly:

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Box a, describing yourself and your status by checking the appropriate sub-box

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Box i, then checking the LLC sub-box

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
That does not make sense to me either. If i file this with the applicant being me and with my ss#, how do i mark box 4i has a DRE-LLC? *I* am not a dre! But nowhere prior to box 4i hv i been able to even enter the name of the llc let alone tie a dre to me. Box 5 makes no sense to me then either because one of the express reasons you can mark for hving not filed taxes is that the applicant is a dre!
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Perhaps the irs accepts multiple wsys of this hving been filled out. Who knows. Thanks for your help in any case!
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

"If i file this with the applicant being me and with my ss#, how do i mark box 4i has a DRE-LLC? "

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Because you DO HAVE an LLC (which for all single members IS a disregarded entity)

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"But nowhere prior to box 4i hv i been able to even enter the name of the llc let alone tie a dre to me"

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Not necessary, because, again LLC is disregarded... this form is NOT ABOUT the LLC.

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"Box 5 makes no sense to me then either because one of the express reasons you can mark for having not filed taxes is that the applicant is a dre!"

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No, this is not what box 5 is about .. box five is the way that you tell IRS that you DID file... DRE owners still have to file taxes ... in your case the 1040

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Listen ... gotta get some sleep

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Bot***** *****ne here?

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Single member LLC owners NEVER us the EIN for their tax reporting UNLESS you are reporting for payroll tax purposes.

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The fact that the LLC is disregarded MEANS that it's YOU that is communicating with IRS ( whether it's about reporting income, filing out W-9's that payors request because they may be sending 1099-MISC to you, or any other purpose)

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The 8802 is no different.

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Box 4(a) and (i) is how you tell them that you, the individual, are doing this because you have a need to let some other taxing authority know that you are a resident.