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I am helping someone repair their 2000 Toyota Tacoma. It is…

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I am helping someone repair...
I am helping someone repair their 2000 Toyota Tacoma. It is a nanual 4x2 with the 2.4L motor. It runs excessively rich and he installed a Denso(###) ###-####Air fuel sensor. Supposedly this is for a 2001 vehicle. The sensor that supposedly fits a 2000 truck had a different connector. Anyway, he installed the replacement sensor and threw away the old, so I can’t determine the p/n. The new sensor does not seat properly on the gasket. The engine fuel trim is +20%, but the generic data for the sensor is pegged at 0.9v, and the engine runs super rich. The downstream 02 sensor is pegged rich. If I disconnect the brake booster line, the engine runs better, the downstream sensor begins to oscillate between 0.1 & 9.9 volts, but the AFR stays pegged at 0.9V. I need help diagnosing the problem and finding tre correct AFR sensor.
Submitted: 3 months ago.Category: Subaru
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Answered in 37 minutes by:
3/30/2018
Subaru Mechanic: Danny, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago
Danny
Danny, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Subaru
Satisfied Customers: 4,560
Experience: ASE Master Technician with L1 advanced engine performance, VW Certified, former US Army mechanic
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According to this link the 2000 through 2004 Tacomas all have the same oxygen sensor.Can you tell me how many grams per second of air the mass airflow sensor is reading at idle and at 2000 RPM? It should be about 3.5 grams per second at idle and at 2000 RPM while stationary in park it should be around 10.5 g/s.If your scan tool reads in a different value you can use Google to convert by type XX kg/hr = ? Grams/sec and see that it matches.If it's reading low at idle but fine at 2000 RPM that would indicate a vacuum leak, if it's reading fine at idle but low at 2000 RPM then that indicates a faulty sensor.All 4 wire oxygen sensors basically function the same, and the vast majority of them screw in the same as well so I'm not exactly sure what's going on there but maybe you can send me a picture, at this point it's probably cheaper to have an exhaust shop weld in the correct bung, because electrically it should function properly, to me it just seems like because the sensor isn't seated properly it's sucking air and telling the engine control module that the vehicle is running lean even though it's really not running lean.Although that doesn't really make sense with what's going on with the voltage.You state that the downstream sensor is going up to 9.9 volts? That's not even possible with a narrow band sensor that would have to be a wideband sensor which would mean that the sensors are installed in the incorrect places.... But I'm not even sure that this vehicle was available with a wideband oxygen sensor.Let me know on the clarifications there also that Denzel sensor that you referenced the only one I find is listed as a 234- 9001
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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I’ll check my MAF values tomorrow, although I am not sure of its relevance. I meant to write 0.9 and not 9.9. The downstream sensor is a conventional narrow band. The upstream AFR is installed over 2 8mm studs as compared to a 14mm bung. NAPA shows a different sensor for a 2000. The(###) ###-####is not the sensor that was originally on the vehicle, unless they changed its shape, which I think would cause all kinds of fitment issues.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
What was the link that you were referring too?
Subaru Mechanic: Danny, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago
The mass airflow sensor is the most important sensor for the calculation of fueling, it's extremely relevant because if it's reading correctly then you know that the fueling issues are all related to the oxygen sensors.If it's not reading correctly, then you would want to fix that issue before you kept messing around the oxygen sensors.The thing is all oxygen sensors that are narrow band back from the 70s to current day electronically function the same. You could wire a 4-wire sensor into a vehicle that originally had a one wire sensor, you could put a one wire sensor from a 1978 rabbit into the exhaust of your vehicle and you could hook that signal wire to the single wire of your engine computer and you would have fault for the heater circuit but it would still read directly for fueling.That's why I'm not really is concerned about it being the "wrong" sensor, even if the wires go into the terminals in the connector in a different order if you were to just connect the wires properly in the correct order it would function.https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/AC/8220-02786982.html?utm_content=TTC&utm_term=2000-2004+Toyota+Tacoma+Oxygen+Sensor+Replacement+903-013+Downstream+00-04+Toyota+Oxygen+Sensor+01+02&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=CjwKCAjwwPfVBRBiEiwAdkM0HfedTxjAvHIjjeeF5OBacwlYgUhN08_aP8_YkrvJoe-c3TTsxBZzahoC1F8QAvD_BwE&ad=218838883663Here's that link.
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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The link is for a downstream sensor. I’m looking for an upstream sensor. AFRs are a different animal. They are a current producing sensor and not a voltage producing sensor. And different manufactures use different voltages. Then you have the 5 wire models..
Subaru Mechanic: Danny, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago
No manufacturers do not use different voltages for narrow band sensors with very few exceptions.A one wire sensor is just a signal.2 wire sensors are single and heater power.Three wire sensors are signal, heater power, and heater ground.4 wire sensors added a ground for the sensor signal as well.The 1993 Civic VX was the first vehicle with a wideband oxygen sensor.Then Bosch came out with the 5-yr wide-band oxygen sensor which first appeared on the 99 VW/Audi 1.8t vehicles.Everywhere I look, I'm finding that vehicle to have 4 wire upstream sensor, and since VW and Audi were the only companies with an active model with a wideband sensor when that truck was made I'm pretty sure it was just narrow band.The only difference between the air fuel ratio sensor and oxygen sensor is that the voltage is inverse. Here's an article about it.So on a normal oxygen sensor .9 would be extremely rich, but on an air fuel ratio sensor .9 is leanHere's an article all about it.http://m.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/92264/Easy-air-fuel-and-oxygen-sensor-diagnosis
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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
What voltages due Tacoma AFRs rum? I think 3.3 and 3.0V. What about Honda? Aren’t they somewhere around 2.0 and 1.8V? Different right? What about other manufactures? Different again, right?Screenshots are no help, they do not show connector design or specs. Send me the link for me to review.
Subaru Mechanic: Danny, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago
Okay I think this actually is a wideband sensor, my mistake. What's very strange about that is the fact that the voltage is so low. Like the screenshots were showing they're actually the same for both years so I'm wondering if he didn't accidentally put in narrowband sensor in the upstream.Disregard what I said about it being narrow, but the screen shot I sent you is the correct sensor.This is the link to 2001, but up with the top of the screen you can easily click back to 2000 and you'll see it's the same part number.I was thrown off by the fact that you thought it was a different sensor so. I'm used to it being called a lambda sensor or designating that it's wideband. You were right about that.I kind of think what's going on here is it is running really rich and that's why the sensor he installed is pegged at .9 because a standard oxygen sensor outputs its own voltage and that IS rich.However, since it's supposed to be a wideband sensor which should be reading 3.3 volts full rich or whatever and it's returning 1 volt to the ECM, the ECM is interpreting that as the vehicle being full leanband just dumping fuel, resulting in a fully pegged narrowband sensor. If it was this AFR sensor putting that voltage out, it would have to be very lean.The connectors must be interchangeable or something some out that's crazy, but I think that's what's going on.https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2001_Tacoma-EXTRA-CAB-24L-MT/_72782_7171711/O2-Sensors/maintenance_O2Sensors.html
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Subaru Mechanic: Danny, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago
I hope I explained that in a somewhat intelligible fashion. He has a narrowband sensor installed instead of a wideband, it's returning .9 because of that.You're right that he has the incorrect sensors fault, but it's not because it's the wrong year, it's because he installed a downstream sensor.
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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The 2000 Tacoma does not generate codes. It has a performance problem. My friend thought it was the AFR sensor and he replaced the original with a Denso(###) ###-####(and three out the old sensor). He still has a performance problem. I am not sure if this is the right AFR sensor. But he did not incorrectly install an O2 sensor. We have gotten off track discussing specifics of AFR sensors. I wish I had a tool that would read enhanced data, but I can only read generic OBD2 data. The only thing that I currently know for sure is that I forced the engine lean by creating a massive vacuum leak (disconnected the 3/8 brake booster line) and the AFR sensor did not register any change (but The downstream 02 sensor did register a change). For my skill set, that points to the AFR sensor. The problem that I have run into is that NAPA and AMAZON lists a Denso AFR sensor that has a different plug design that will not connect. I will get the MAF readings and the VIN later today and report back what I obtained.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Hello, again. I did a bit more tinkering on the truck. I smoke tested the Intake and found no leaks. I also determined that the bracket holding the AFR sensor was upside down so I adjusted it. The engine will not idle normally. I was able to get a reading from the MAF sensor at 1975 and 2003 RPM. At 1975rpm-1.45lb/m or 10.9g/s. At 2503rpm-1.67lb/m or 12.6 g/s. The computer is adding +20% fuel, reporting that bank1 is lean (0.995 on generic OBD2 data). I also am getting an AFR sensor fault. The VIN is 4TANL42N2YZ651520.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I suspect that the Denso(###) ###-####is the incorrect sensor. I think that I found a different toyota sensor. I think that 89465-09020 might be the correct sensor.
Subaru Mechanic: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 3 months ago
Tim Mohr
Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH
Category: Subaru
Satisfied Customers: 16,621
Experience: 30 YRS EXPERIENCE, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, GAS AND DEISEL
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Hi, my name is ***** ***** you still need help with this?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I do.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago
eric remington
Category: Subaru
Satisfied Customers: 887
Experience: mechanic/service advisor at topline auto
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s​o you found correct sensor? did you put it in?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I don’t know what is the correct sensor, or if I have a problem with the sensor at all. The truck does not drive well.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

o​k rather than messing around with aftermarket parts call the Toyota dealer and get them vin number and see what part number they list for af ratio o2 sensor involved...or get me vin number and I will check for you. Danny gave an informative answer. but we need to make sure we have correct application and best way. Toyota parts dept...

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

v​ery good informative answers Danny..

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Didn’t you read the previous texts? I already provided the VIN.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

o​k so you want me to contact Toyota parts dept. ?

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

ok I see it 4TANL42N2YZ651520.

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

o​nce I have part numbers I will find best places to find that part...provided that parts numbers that are on vehicle now are invcorrect

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
My mistke, I thought that you had access to their database. I entered the VIN at the McGeorge.com site and got the two possible p/n. I found a picture of the 89465-09020 and determined that this plug design would not fit. I’ll call my local dealer tomorrow morning. I’m in Hawaii and it is a bit after 10pm here
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I’m not even sure that the AFR sensor is bad. I have a feeling that perhaps the sensor is not the rot cause for the performance problem. I’ll check back once I learn what the original p/n was.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

wh​y would I have access to their database? that is why I would call

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

well lets start with this if not fix then we can go from there. I will help you find problem

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

this is first step

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

don't mess around with these websites...call dealer.... do you want me to stay around?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
My dealer won’t open for 8 hours. I’ll call in the morning.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

ok let me know

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

anything?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The dealer said that the p/n should be 89467-35050 for Cal vehicles and 89465-09020 for Fed vehicles. I’m nearly certain that I have a California vehicle, but not 100% certain. The plug design of the 89465-09020 is different than the truck I’m working on. The sensor on the truck has Denso(###) ###-####(supposedly the same as 89467-35050) so I believe that the sensor is correct.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

they couldn't tell if it was a california vehicle from vin? man call another dealer

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

look at emissions decal under hood

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

Hawaii probably is calif. but maybe Washington state Tacoma lol.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Working on the assumption that the AFR sensor on the truck is good, what next?
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

If fuel trim is 20 percent that means its putting more fuel than normal..its adding more its positive

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

20 percent positive is a rich command. computer is being prompted to add additional fuel

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
For some reason the computer is interpreting the AFR sensor data as being lean. I need help diagnosing why.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

what are fuel trims rear air sensor

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

call a Toyota dealer in Tacoma Washington give them vin and ask what part numbers should be

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The rear O2 sensor indicates 0.9V, or rich. If I create a large vacuum leak, the rear O2 begins switching from rich to lean and the motor runs better (with a 3/8 vacuum line open to atmospheric air).
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

what is rear fuel trims though

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

I'm ASE certified in advanced engine performance for over 20 years

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Good for you. I’m not ASE certified, or anything else. I guess I don’t know what rear fuel trims are. Please explain.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

p​ositive fuel trims means that lean condition detected from sensor so there is a rich command negative fuel trims are the opposite. fuel trims determined whether . for a hypothetical example . a vacuum leak low fuel pressure or restricted injectors would give you a positive fuel trims scenario. a stuck injector where way too much fuel is being dumped in cylinder, the computer would put a lean command like neg 20 percent or 25 percent ..anything over 8 percent each way is too much

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I understand fuel trims,. I don’t understand ‘rear’ fuel trim.
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

http://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/94982/Fuel-trim-How-it-works-and-how-to-make-it-work-for-you?Page=2

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

The PCM consults all oxygen sensors in the system when calculating fuel trim. Normally the rear (post catalyst) sensor voltage will be fairly stable near the middle of its range, but LTFT will likely increase if that sensor reading is low (remember, low is lean).

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

you do know fuel trims or you don't?

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

well u do now

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
No mention of rear fuel trim in the article. I would still like to hear what ‘rear’ fuel trim is. What would the computer do if the upstream AFR reports lean and the post cat O2 sensor reads rich?
Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

rear o2 sensor contribution determines fuel trim along with front...you don't know that...by looking at rear readings you can determine how it impacts fuel trim...get it now

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

get confused maybe we got wrong ones in there so call Tacoma Washington toyuota

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Subaru Mechanic: eric remington,
 replied 3 months ago

computer gets confused if wrong part put in like the other tech was telling you

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I understand fuel trim, such as how the computer tries to keep STFT close to zero and have LTFT compensate. But fuel trim is about the computer increasing or decreasing injector pulse width based on sensor data. I still haven’t read anything from you regarding ‘rear’ fuel trim. Please either explain why you asked for this, or admit that this is not even a factor.I will check the hood label tomorrow, but I do not see how the sensor could be incorrect. That would require both the original and the replacement sensor being bad, which is highly unlikely as they are Denso parts and not some cheap Chinese brand. I think something else is wrong with the truck.
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I HAVE A 2002 FORRESTOR THAT HAS 131,000 MILES ON IT. IT HAS STARTED MISSING AND MY MECHANIC SAYS THAT THE FUEL IS RUNNING MUCH TO RICH, WHICH IS CAUSING THE MISSING. HE TRIED NEW SENSORS AND THAT WAS… read more
Mike V.
Mike V.
technician
Subaru and Nissan factory training.
27,024 satisfied customers
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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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