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03 Subaru Legacy L 2.5 started with a P0032 replaced the o2…

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03 Subaru Legacy L...

03 Subaru Legacy L 2.5 started with a P0032 replaced the o2 bank 1,1 and then it came up with P0030.. replaced it again but this time with a Denso(###) ###-####and same thing within 40 miles and several key cycles...

Mechanic's Assistant: Will the headlights turn on? Is the battery fully charged?

Yes

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Legacy yourself? What have you tried so far?

Did you read the 1st message

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

No other obvious problems

Submitted: 7 months ago.Category: Subaru
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Answered in 1 hour by:
12/7/2017
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago
tamaz
tamaz, Subaru master technician
Category: Subaru
Satisfied Customers: 1,395
Experience: Subaru certified,ASE Master technician,25 years experience
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Hi,my name is ***** ***** I'm going to do my best to help you today.To make sure I don't miss anything give me a minute to review you question.

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Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

Hi,have you had any runability concerns when this comes on

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No seems to run fine either way! Here's what I know so far.. bought the car with a bad transmission got that all taken care of and the P0032 popped on pretty quick after starting.. not sure if it was a previous issue! Replaced the O2 with a cheapy and next day the P0030 appeared... nothing obvious I'm seeing anywhere but the light was coming on with several key cycles not really even driving so I decided to go ahead and get a Denso(###) ###-####sensor and try it... same thing within 40 miles and several key cycles.. at this point I'm at a loss of what to do next.. and still confused as to how/why it changed codes like that but for giggles I went ahead and put the original sensor back in tonight... the P0032 comes on instantaneously!! So I've done some Testlight testing... I've got battery power (when hooked to separate ground) and key on.. to the yellow/red wire... but I'm also getting a very very weak light on the red wire! So I connected to the red with the ground end of the light and it powers the yellow/red(but not as brightly as hooked to good ground) I'm also getting a very very weak light when grounding to the white wire and touching the yellow/red... getting nothing on the yellow!! That's what I have and what I know!!
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

Hi,without out getting to technical it sounds like you have a poor electrical connection or a short circuit in the ECM we do find loose pins at the front 02 sensors along with the main harness connectors which are located right next to the sensor( the connectors are gray and brown I believe) the inspection of the wiring would be my first attack,the P0032 is for a shorted heater element so its entirely possible the ECM is shorted causing the immediate check engine light but lets check all the wiring in the area first before we go down this path,to get the best results set your meter to ohms and place a probe on each side of wiring you should have no more than 002-004 ohms across each,it's a bit of a chore but it's a needed step in the process,thanks

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
are you saying I need to dig into the dash to get to the ecm to test the other ends of these wires as well as the sensor ends? I have no idea on the location of the ecm and/or what's entailed to get to it
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Is there a way to find out what the values as far as voltage (or other method) Should be at the 4pin connector for the O2 in question? That would also tell us if we have a shorted issue would it not? Not to mention a much easier testing procedure I would think
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I'm not seeing anything that looks to be a problem anywhere!! All wiring looks great... removed the ecm and all wiring to that as well and it's clean as can be and no sign of any problem areas (hot spots/discoloration etc) I had my area parts store print up a wiring schematic which is #'d by pin at ecm and of course no #'s on the ecm or anything to reference to at all!
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

Hi,pin 4 at 02 sensor should have battery voltage, this voltage is arriving from the main relay,you can test voltage at ecm with pin 6 and 17 connector B136 you should have about 1.0 volts with key on and also at idle,it would be great if you had a monitor that could read live data to see what type of amperage the heater is putting out.In my experiences if the wiring is good the ECM been the fault.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Pins aren't #'d at either location so I really have no idea what #'s they are which is why I included the colors and my findings at the sensor harness
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

The pin chart you received from the parts store... does it have a picture of the connectors at the top

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No it was a schematic that showed what pins everything went to on the ecm.. but when I got to the ecm nothing was on it or the connectors either one
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

The pin chart I have is directly from Subaru and is copyrighted so I can't share it on this site I will get wire colors for you at ecm and sensor and report back

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Have the colors but there are many of the same at ecm! So I found something that said to Check for ohms between the 2 black wires on the sensor itself and it should be less than 5 to be within specs... both new sensors were at 2.0.. original sensor would not ohm at all so that could be why it was kicking the light on so quick?
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

The ecm connector I'm referencing has 26 pins (the only connector that has this many pins) there are four connectors so from the top it should be the third one,the pins number 6 and 17 are right on top of each other so looking at back on connector they should be far left both yellow wires which you should get about 1.0 on both idling or key on . 02 sensor wires are pin 4 should be yellow/red wire pin 3 yellow pin 1 and 2 are signal wires #1 WHITE #2 RED these wires go to ecm these wires you should have voltage of about 2volts at idle

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
The yellow/red had battery voltage with key on
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

It should ,like I said the voltage is supplied through main relay you really want to check the wiring at the ecm ,the 2 yellow wires I mentioned

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok and they should be 1.0 volt? Key on or idling ?
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

either idling or key on

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok I'll get back to it as soon as I can but it may be tomorrow evening! I've got a pretty full day so not sure I can get to it til later! Thanks
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

Sure, no problem I will be working late tomorrow so It may be late when I reply,have a good night!

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I remember checking the yellow (at the sensor harness) the other day with a test light and wasn't getting anything... but maybe 1.0 v wouldn't do anything on a test light
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Thank you and you as well!
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok here are the voltage readings key on (at the sensor harness) pin 4 yellow/red is 12.16, pin 3 yellow 2.65, (which is higher than the 1.0 you said to look for) pin 2 red 1.87 and pin 1 white 2.18!! I have a friend coming to help me check the wires on the ecm tomorrow and to check continuity on the yellow if you still think I need to? But obviously the ecm is telling the yellow wire something?
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I also found a crack in the hose coming from the pcv to the intake... but that would have been causing a lean reading I would think not a heater code
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I've also got 2.60 on both yellows at ecm key on... plugged the sensor back up and started it and idling they were erratic and all over the place but then leveled out to battery voltage?? I unplugged the sensor and they all went back down to 2.601... at a holding point until I hear from you on how to continue? Thanks
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Now at an idle it's ranging anywhere from 1.2-3.6.... I'm guessing it goes to battery voltage when heater is on? It's going to battery voltage with key on and sensor plugged up
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

The readings should be taken with everything plugged in ,manipulate the wires at the sensor to see if your readings change for me.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok! I drove it home tonight about 20 miles and so far so good! Will see how it does in the morning and I'll do some more testing then!
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

I really think you have a poor connection based on the erratic readings,fingers crossed!

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Fingers, toes and a few other things honestly!!
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Well no such luck! Took it to town last night... let it warm up a few minutes... (30* here) and did fine! I started it and left about 11:30 and light came on! I didn't give it time to "warmup" for sure but gotta be something going on! Going back to work this morning for the sole purpose of figuring this thing out! By then tho it will be warm and I think the problem it's having is at cold start so not sure what I'm gonna find without letting it sit again? Any other thoughts...
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago
Connections,Connections it used to come on immediately now it’s not ,connection maybe contracting in cold and expanding in warmth
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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
It was only coming on immediately with the original sensor that's been replaced... both the new ones have taken some time to kick the light on
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I have everything still apart and my voltmeter in the car with me... if I go out now and turn the key on what will I find?? What should the voltage be on the yellow wires at ecm? Is it battery voltage when the heater is on? And then it fluctuates when the heater has warmed up and turned off?? Just trying to understand fully so I know what I'm looking for
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago
Understood ,1.0 volts is what chart signal wires at ECM should also be checked 2.0 volts at idle
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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Performed a pin drag test some seem tight and other seem loose to me but don't have the proper tool to remove pins also performed a continuity test in the wire loom from ecm to 02 sensor found no brakes in wire looms. There is a red and blk wire that goes to the master relay which I didn't find the master relay or that wire. Now this is a wiring diagram that was provided to me. Yellow/red wire ohm good. The yellow wire ohm good. The red wire ohm good. The white wire ohm less then the other 3 wires
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
light came back on just as soon as I got ready to drive it home again
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

The pin drag test is the correct method to see if any are loose to do this properly though you would either need to remove the pins or have a set of pins from a kit ,do you have something like this? If you have found some loose then those need to be either replaced or tightened .All continuity checks are good , voltages seem to be correct ,the loose pins need to be taken out of the equation .It is a frustrating problem for sure.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No I don't have the tools required to disassemble the pins from the ecm connector and it was one of them that seemed just a little loose but I don't believe that is the issue! If the "Relay" fires up the yellow/red and then transfers power to the yellow when the heater is lite(?) and is then reported to the ecm via the yellow wires... I think I either have a lazy relay or O2... key forward it goes to battery power.. starts and proceeds to switch back/forth between .0-3.6 and then eventually goes back to battery voltage.... shouldn't it stay on battery voltage and keep the heater running on initial cold startup??
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

I believe the heater should be getting power constantly not just on start up ,without a scan tool that reads data it' s hard to track what the heater is doing, the problem should not be the ECM based on the infrequency of the problem, you may be correct with a sensor fault, but that would mean 2 bad sensors which puts this in the category of unlikely,whats left is the relay theory and my connection theory.The connections we see fail most often is at the sensor I am unsure if you have inspected these pins on the harness side.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
The harness side of the sensor is all male and yes I have checked it many times and we also cleaned the entire plug with brake clean Saturday! I do have a scanner but it doesn't regulate the heater itself! Infrequency of the problem?! The light is coming on everytime after about the 3rd drive! And I can't even find the relay to swap in another one to eliminate that!!
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago
My definition of in frequency is it’s not coming on immediately or even every other key cycle ,the main relay is a 6 pin brown in color located on the passenger side of vehicle,the best way to describe its location is its next to blower motor mounted on the body or A pillar it can be further identified by the wire colors black /redx2 ,yellow/red,yellow/blue,light green ,black
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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok I'll see if I can locate it tomorrow.. any idea if the vehicle has another one similar to it that I can swap it out with and try?
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Found the relay.... unplugged it and all looks great.. could not get relay itself off of bracket and doesn't appear to be any way to disassemble and investigate the inside anyway so I didn't go any further with it! And by the looks of it and the wiring schematic there doesn't appear to be one I could swap with to try!! Any other thoughts before I bend over and order a Subaru sensor? No idea what else to try or check
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

No sorry, it's going towards process of elimination now you've done a good job thus far,sometimes you need to turn to this unfortunately .

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Sensor #3 is in now! Had a local parts store that was willing to let me try their brand (Walker Products) and will allow a return if it doesn't fix it! $80 less than the Subaru! So fingers crossed I'm gonna put some miles on it today and see what happens
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

Hoping all is good !

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Just cleared codes when it came on last night.... should I disconnect battery or anything to completely start fresh or just start and go
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

Yes,disconnect battery to clear old code.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Yeah I did! Just got back from a*****stopping and shutting it off in between! Going again soon after it cools down
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Took it for another short drive this afternoon 23 miles shutting it down in between! And then drove it home tonight for a total of 82 miles on the day... tell tale I believe will be the drive back to work in the am!! Fingers,toes,legs and arms crossed!!
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 7 months ago

Good news !

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Hey Thomas sorry it took me so long to get back to you!! Good news tho! 3rd sensor did the trick I guess! Put 100 miles on it and no light... sold the car Saturday and haven't heard from them so must be all good!! Thanks again for all your help! I will be going in and rating your service soon! But before I go... was curious if you ever look into other ways to make $? When I'm not working on cars (Full Time Business of 20+ yrs!) I help hard working people cut expenses and make additional income!! I'm sending you a short video to give you some info and if you are open to more info about it please give me a call!!(###) ###-####Thanks Again!! Larry https://embed-ssl.wistia.com/deliveries/ae38d38ef448b8639f35ab7fc4c52146dbb2f8b0.bin?disposition=attachment&filename=First+step+to+Financial+Freedom.mp4
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 6 months ago

Hi, thanks for the feedback,the link you sent me didn't work can you resend it?

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
What type of device are you using? With my iPhone if I press and hold on it.. it opens in my browser! Maybe try that.. or I could send it via email or text as well! Thanks
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Thomas Did that work for you trying it that way? Or is there another method I could try to get it to you? Thanks
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 6 months ago

Got it thanks,I'll review and let you know,thanks!

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Great! Thanks! Have a Merry Christmas!
Subaru Mechanic: tamaz, Subaru master technician replied 6 months ago

Have a Merry Christmas!

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