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Mike V.
Mike V., Subaru Technician
Category: Subaru
Satisfied Customers: 25666
Experience:  Certified Subaru Technician, factory trained by Subaru.
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Crank no start on 2005 outback non turbo automatic, just

Customer Question

crank no start on 2005 outback non turbo automatic, just replaced all valves from a timing belt blow, all conectors good, no signal that i can see from the pcm to the coil, or at least no trigger
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Subaru
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Hi there,

Are there any codes stored in the computer?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
no, was just reassembled and battery installed after a year down, never has fired
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Ok,

First, did you use the paint marks on the cams to set the belt or the arrows?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
factory hash marks, done about 20 of them
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Ok, excellent.

The only thing I can think of that might cause this after sitting for a year would be the security system. Is the ring around the ignition key red or green when you are cranking the engine?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
no color
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
i am familiar with the old system not this one.
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

I see, so there isn't a ring around the ignition key on this one? 05 is the first year they used the immobilizer on these in the US. If there isn't a ring around the key then there isn't an immobilizer in the system.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Well it has a clear plastic ring, no lighting though, I kinda remember that there should be though on a newer one like this now that you said that. Yet no illumination on this car despite clear ring
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I do have remote but only a valet key. Do they reboot like the old ones key on when connecting battery?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Would it allow to crank?
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

The transponder key would have to likely be reprogrammed after the battery was disconnected so long.

This should have a security indicator on the dash, is this going out when you crank?
Is it flashing when the key is out of the ignition?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Just entered car to check, the ring was red end faded out, insert key and no color down, security light rapid flash with doors locked, then changed to double flash, about two seconds apart. Of with key fob open signal
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
No security light during crank, all else normal
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
That was security light off with key fob unlock
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Ok, this all seems normal to me from this side.

So, lack of trigger has to come from either cam or crank sensor input. If you have both and the wiring is connected good, then we have to be looking at the ecm.

I know this might sound stupid, but you didn't by mistake swap the cam sprockets did you? Seems like you would have a code for the cam sensor if that was the case, but honestly cannot think of another reason why you wouldn't have signal.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Never took them off the cams
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Unless the machine shop did when they installed the valve guides but there isn't any reason to. And wouldn't it run anyway off the crank trigger?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
A guy I know said I should bee able to see the tachometer jump each pass by the cam sensor and I have nothing. Don't remember ever seeing that on a Subaru
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Wouldn't run off just the crank, in fact the cam is more important then the crank. I agree they shouldn't have a reason to, but there aren't a lot of options here. I have also seen them install the wrong sprocket from a different engine which really messes things up. I would find out if they did do anything with the sprockets just to be sure.

Also, if you have a noid light check and see if you are missing injector pulse too.

Yes, should see the tach jumping while cranking.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
S so I can just take the cam sensor out and check for presence of the metal bit?
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

No, you have to look at the back of the cam sprocket to see if it has the tone nipples on it. You might be able to look through the hole.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yeah I didn't know the terminology
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Not a problem as long as we are both looking for the same thing!

Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Have to step away for about 20-30 minutes, let me know what you find and I will reply soon as I get back.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
If it is flat it is there. Earlier ones are round
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Looks like a normal tone component like on the abs tone ring
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Ok, can you check for injector pulse on this?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I dont have a noid set, is there another way?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Can I use a multimeter
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

To slow to catch it. You can take a 194 bulb and bend the tabs to fit in the injector harness connector. It will flash when cranking if there is pulse.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ok, i have to quit for the night. I will get a 194 Bulb. If i get home before dark tomorrow i will message you. Do you expect to get a ?pulse
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Well, not sure. If you have pulse but no spark then we can focus on the ignition coil. If you are missing both then we are looking at this cam sensor some more. Since cam and crank are the triggers. If you do have pulse, then we know your cam and crank sensors are working.

This is going to help narrow it down a bit.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ok we will work thru it together. Thank you sir. Talk tomorrow.
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Sound good

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Didn't make it home before dark. Was thinking though, should I check for power from pcm at cam and crank sensor?
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Probably wouldn't hurt I think there should be a 5 volt reference on them from what I can see in the wiring diagram. Normally though if there wasn't any power you would have a code stored. Worth checking though

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ok well I will try again Tuesday
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Sounds good, I am going to have kind of a crazy week this week so if I don't get right back to you, don't worry, I will!

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Perfect thanks mike
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

You're welcome. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this, love a good challenge

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Still at work......already dark, ain't happening tonite either looks like
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

No worries man, I will be on and off at odd times :) The site might be generating emails, don't worry and reply when you can.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Checked the voltage to the cam sensor.....0.20.....
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Ok, it's not giving me a voltage to check. Resistance is all. Resistance on the wire at terminal one at the cam sensor should be more then 100k ohms. If it isn't then check the connector on the back of the engine. It's possible that the connector isn't plugged in tight or the wire backed out.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ok will do
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Thanks, ***** ***** because they don't give a voltage for this so in their world it's all about resistance.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
hey mike , I was scouring the forums for a possible solution and ran across a thread from a guy with crank no fire or fuel. This tech advised him to look at the crank sproket, may have a tooth missing. SO I tore mine down and there it is, a tooth gone. Musta been a bunch of debris flying around inside the cover and caught a ball or a piece of cage or something hard up under the teeth to break one off cleanly like that. I have a bunch of these sprokets since they are all the same but this one is different with many tiny teeth instead of they larger, fewer, type like I'm used to. So I have one ordered, they are on back order. Waiting to see if thats it. Dont know why they changed them but i figure they are firing the spark and injectors off of it or using the signal as a baseline reference. Tooth gone, gives it a bad signal I guess. So I'm stuck for a week maybe.
Expert:  Mike V. replied 2 years ago.

Wow, that's all I can say to that. I have never seen that so clearly it's an odd one for sure. My guess is if you are missing a tooth then you are going to be on the money with the new crank sprocket....again, I am amazed as I have never seen that. Find it odd there isn't a code for the crank sensor to though.