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Have a model 2166 w 16 hp Kohler. Engine stopped while

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Have a model 2166 w...
Have a model 2166 w 16 hp Kohler. Engine stopped while mowing. Trying to start will only fire 2 to 3 times. Will fire 4 to 5 times if I squirt starting fluid into Carb opening.
Submitted: 2 years ago.Category: Small Engine
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Answered in 4 minutes by:
8/31/2015
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago
Briggs-Fan
Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 1,265
Experience: over 15 years experience in small engine repair, multiple certifications
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Hi my name is ***** ***** welcome to just answer. Your Def getting spark if it is still firing when shot with starting fluid , it definately seems carburetor or fuel related

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Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Have you tried removing the fuel pump is working ?

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Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

If not I would try that and also drain the carburetor bowl incase you have debris or water in it

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
John,
Thank you. I have left a call back about 4:15PM CDT. I checked and cleaned minimal fine sediment from Carb bowl. Checked the Plunger / condenser looking thing under the bowl to find no change in resistance when working the plunger. Showed about 23 ohms closed and open. Checked the fuel pump with an old vacuum meter showing 4 to 5"hg initially but working up to over 10" after 30 secs. of cranking. Put back together and made video of initial cranking with choke on with no fire. Took choke off and engine fired for 2 to 4 secs. Choked again with no fire. Took choke off again and then only about 3 pops before no fire again.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Does it fire up or just sputter ?, if you remove the air filter and put a little gas down into the carb will it run briefly

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
John,
Thank you for continuing. While pouring gas in steadily, the engine will fire, but not reach full RPM then die. I must hit the starter to make this happen, but it just dies after about 1 to 2 seconds of trying to run. It was backfiring when I initially tried to start it yesterday, but not today, even while pouring directly into the carb.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

I'm questioning if this may be a internal issue like a bent push rod or something like that. Your motor is a kohler command right , do you have the model number on the engine ?

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Engine model no. CH16S
Spec No. 45509
Ser No.(###) ###-####I was concerned of an internal problem, after it back fired a couple of times trying to start it after it stopped all of a sudden.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Here is a link to your service manual

https://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com/pub/SM_TP-2402-A_CH11_CH12.5_CH13_CH14_CH15_CH16_REV8_06.pdf

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Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Here is a parts diagram of a ch16s , we need to get the correct valve clearances and remove the ohv cover and check them

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/kohler-ch16s45509-engine-parts-c-106503_108123_109910.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw9o-vBRCO0OLi2PfPkI8BEiQA8pdF4Eejpj9eEuKRqDKHdm9wmDmUXv8W5J3o7LoeLyp-XBUaApMa8P8HAQ

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
John,
Finally collected the tools to properly adjust the valves. Upon opening valve covers noticed that their are no valve adjustment nuts on the rocker arms. On TDC of the compression stroke I noticed the ability to slightly move the rocker arms, but could not get my smallest, .0025", feeler gage between the arm and the valve. Could these be hydraulic lifters? If so what is the best way to check?
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Checking on it now

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Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

When your turning it over by hand with the valve cover off are both valves opening and closing ok ?

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Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Also the oil in the engine isn't low right ?

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Both valves appear to be opening and closing freely, and seemed to be doing so in proper sequence. The oil level is exactly on the low mark.
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Is there an oil sensor that would cause the engine to stop and then only try to fire without starting? I have been cautious to not overfill, but do have room to add a little.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Yes that motor could have a low oil sensor , try putting the valve cover back on adding some oil and see if it will fire up

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Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Add like a 1/4 of a qt , get it on level ground and add a little then measure

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thank you, ***** ***** tomorrow as soon as I get a gasket, and let you know.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Ok , if that fixes it get it on full because having it on low if your going up or down hills could really risk damaging the engine

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Hello John,
Sorry to report that after adding between 1/4 and 1/2 Qt of oil to raise the level to the full line on the dipstick the engine still shuts off after 1 to 2 seconds of running. Unlike previously when the engine would only start quickly without choking a couple of times and shut off and then not fire again at all, now with the oil level increased it will start quickly and run without choking for 1 to 2 seconds and will do so repeatedly. I must mention that since it quit running it will not fire at all with the choke on, where it used to require cold choking for about 3 to 4 seconds before it would cold start.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

I did not see where the valves could be adjusted at this point I'm not sure if it being low on oil could of done something or its a carburetor issue etc , can you get access to a compression or spark tester

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
John,
Thank you. I'll check on these.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

I want to see if it's loosing spark or what , sometimes those low oil sensors have to be reset .

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thank you. Will try to get that tomorrow if I can get back home.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Ok we will have to locate and unhook the wiring to it then start it for a few and then shut it off and plug it back in

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
John, thank you for the suggestion. I tried both disconnecting the oil pressure sending unit and jumping the connection to ground with no improvent in results. I am currently traveling and unable to work on the mower. Next week, I intend to try to jump each of the safety's. Other suggestions?
Thanks
Don
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Don so it will continue to run with fuel poured in the carb right ?

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
John,
No, fuel or starting fluid directly into carb makes no difference, nor does choking it. It still shuts down after a couple of seconds running. Not sure how check spark in that situation. Jumping ahead of troubleshooting, I was thinking of purchasing a new spark advance unit since the methods for checking sound so involved. I will be willing to make that $120 roll of the dice after we think other less expensive options are exhausted.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

Can you get to the coil and unhook the ground lead going to it ? , this will over idea the kills switches and see if it will start ? , to shut it off remove the air filter and just smother the carb

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I'll try that as soon as I get home Monday.
Thank you again.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

OK , let know if that gets it to run

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
John,
Disconnected the white ground wire and engine still reacts the same, run for 1 to 2 seconds and quits. Pulled the black wire off the coil and got no fire. Checked continuity of oil sensor to block showing closed circuit. Wire disconnected from sensor to Negative battery terminal showing closed circuit for wire. Tried cranking with sensor wire disconnected and got same short 1 to 2 second run result. Without further disassembly, have not been able to check resistance to coil windings from brown wire, yellow wire, or spark plug wire. Appreciate your continued suggestions. Thank you again.
Don
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

http://www.partstree.com/parts/cub-cadet/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/2166-13a-214g100-13a-254g100-cub-cadet-lawn-tractor/battery-electrical-components-and-switches/

Part 29 is the brake switch , I would check that , maybe it's grounding it

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Will do.
Thank you again.
Technician: Briggs-Fan, Small Engine Technician replied 2 years ago

No problem I'll wait to hear back from you

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