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Clayso
Clayso, Master Automobile Technician
Category: Saturn
Satisfied Customers: 880
Experience:  ASE Master Certified Automobile Technician. 30 Years Experience.
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Having trouble with 2009 Saturn Sky Turbo. Fan not working,

Customer Question

Having trouble with 2009 Saturn Sky Turbo. Fan not working, Replaced Fan control module with 2 different ones. Still no fan. New motor wont work. If you know what this problem is please let me know. If your just guessing well I can guess its the ECM. Need definitive Dx
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Saturn
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

Hi There,
This is Clay, I'm a certified master automobile technician with 30 years of automotive repair and diagnostic experience.

From your description most likely there is no power at the blower motor. The only way anyone can know for sure what wrong is to verify the circuit to the blower motor and or checking for codes in the Body Control Module (BCM). With a test light or voltmeter verify the brown wire at the blower motor has battery voltage. If there is no power on the brown wire confirm the HVAC relay clicks on when the ignition is cycled. If the relay is not clicking on swap the relay with a same relay. The HVAC relay is located in the BCM is located under passenger foot rest under the carpet. While at the BCM make sure the connectors are secure. Let me know if there is power at the blower motor.

The orange wire at the blower motor is the ground and is controlled by the blower motor resistor BCM and the HVAC control module to control the fan speeds.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any questions let me know. You can reply back to me through this thread at any time.
Let me know
Thanks

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
sorry, this is the engine cooling fan, not the blower.
1. no fan. no code.
2. fan works hooked up directly. 13V at controller connector
3. installed new controller that i bought with a motor. the variable speed one that is also found in the crown vic. doesnt work P0480 code.
4. reset code put on new fan motor on it and turned the AC on to engage cooling fan. nothing. P0480 code
5. bought yet another controller and hooked it up to a new fan motor, turned the ac on. New controller new motor still doesnt turn on and again a P0480 code. I'm at the end of what i can do except bypass the whole thing.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
every forum this fix has worked except for one and he said it prob was the ecm.
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

I got ya, I looked at that circuit also. Give me a little bit to regroup.

Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

Have you verified the 60 amp cooling fan fuse has battery voltage?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

IF you clear out the DTC P0480 does it come back?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
yup. as long as clearing out the DTC P0480 means erasing the codes lol. but it doesnt on the original controller, never had one
. just no fan either. Does the ECM ALWAYS tell the fan to come on? I mean shouldnt it come on if i say put some heat on the backside?
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

That's correct clearing/erasing. The reason I ask is there can be no codes when checking the cooling fan circuit. You may have to reinstall the original controller. With no codes present verify there is battery voltage on the red/black wire at the cooling fan. Make sure there is a good ground on the black wire. Backprobe and ground the white wire, this should turn the cooling fan on, so keep your fingers out of the way. Lol.

The ECM will command the fan based on the A/C high pressure and the engine coolant temperature.

Let me know if you can operate the fan by backprobing and grounding the white wire.
Thanks

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
OK here's what i just did. I have an entire set of new controller and fan motor off the cowling. I bypassed the controller completely and jumped from the plug straight to the motor and it works. does this clear that up? or do i need to do something else?
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

Actually what we're after is the control from the ECM. If there is actually power and ground at the fan the ECM controls the fan speed through the white wire.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
how do i get to the white wire if its all plugged together? its a small wire im afraid of piercing it
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

Back probe the white wire along side of the wire into the back side of the connector. I use safety pins. This will protect the wire and allow a connection with the connector plugged in.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
ok found a pin where should ignition be?
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

Power should be on the red/black wire. Ground should be on the black. Backprobing and grounding the white wire should turn the fan on high.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
ive grounded the white wire with the engine on and off no fan
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

Is there battery voltage on the red/black wire and ground on the black? This can be checked with the key off. You can disconnect the connector and check the red/black to black with a voltmeter, should show battery voltage.

Let me know

Thanks

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
i have voltage at the plug red/black to ground. I've already told you i connected the fan straight to the plug and it runs..
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
From before
sorry, this is the engine cooling fan, not the blower.
1. no fan. no code.
2. fan works hooked up directly. 13V at controller connector
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

I understand completely that the fan works when directly hooked up. The controller is not controlling the fan speed.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
BUT I noticed im getting a P0691 not sure if it was there before or I just triggered it
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
you asked if i had voltage at the red/black wire.
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

I was verifying some information. on the red/black wire

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
your saying if i have it all hooked up and i ground the white wire, the fan should come on. it doesnt
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

By grounding the white wire verifies the ECM is grounding the controller and the fan is not coming on. I'd get an AC Delco controller

Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

The Crown Vic control module may look the same, but it obviously doesn't operate the same. The link below is a description of the cooling fans operation.

Cooling Fan Description and Operation

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
well i dunno about that answer man. sounds cop-outish to me. since everyone else seems to be doing fine with the other controllers. if this is a compatiblity problem ill be happy with this service otherwise how do it recoop my loss?
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
im gonna end up taking this to GM before i blow another how much on another controller
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

I'm simply stating how the circuit works. Power and ground are always at the fan and the ECM controls the fan speed.

Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

By grounding the white wire you took control of the ECM's ground and the fan should run on high.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
well its dark out now and im tired. My damn truck is broke as well and its taking up my shop space so i cant pull it in. im gonna try grounding that controller again in the am because whats bothering me is if what your saying is right, shouldn't grounding the wire the fan should come on no matter what controller i have right? I dont care if its from an Edsel lol. why didnt they just leave the frickin fan with a simple clutch on the belt. ill let you know whqat happens
Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

Very, very true my friend. Life was so much easier before technology took over. The link below is a circuit diagram.

Cooling Fan Circuit

This is a fairly simple circuit, the white wire is the only circuit that controls the fans speed.

I'll be here all day tomorrow.

Let me know what you find.

Thanks

Expert:  Clayso replied 10 months ago.

The only way the fan control module will operate the fan is when the module understands the commands from the PCM for the desired fan speed. Simply grounding the white wire tells the module to set fan speed at 94%. The module then controls the fan motor speed. In your case any of the modules you have are not translating the correct fan speed and turning on the fan (and or setting codes). Both P0480 and P0691 are cooling fan speed output circuit problems.

DTC P0480
Cooling Fan Speed Output Circuit
The ECM detects 0 voltage on the output during commanded transitions.

DTC P0691
Cooling Fan Speed Output Circuit Low Voltage
The ECM detects low voltage on the output while commanded OFF.

I moved some components around in the diagram I sent last night and is in the link below. Basically I moved the fan motor to show it separate from the module. The round 3 wire connector is to the module and the 2 wire terminal is obviously to the fan.

Cooling Fan Assembly Circuit

In the first diagram I sent GM shows the Engine Cooling Fan as a unit, so much so that the only way to get a fan motor, module or even a fan blade from GM comes as a complete assembly. The aftermarket world, forums, and all the other riff raff are basically trying to shortcut and copy what GM has specifically designed to operate properly for this vehicle. I used to read through forums years ago, but have found the information I pay for each month is much more reliable and provides me with correct diagnostic procedures.

I'll be hear most all of today, let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks