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Kenny Z.
Kenny Z., RV Mechanic
Category: RV
Satisfied Customers: 5505
Experience:  25 years working on Fords, Ford trucks and RVs.
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My RV is sucking the gas down and I bought a reader and it

Customer Question

My RV is sucking the gas down and I bought a reader and it says P0174 and each cylinder is misfiring so I looked tat the live daya and the stft is 65 on both banks and my ltft is 0. I took the cover off and don't see any obvious vacuum leaks. It is a 2004 ford triton with 52000 miles. The check engine light has been on since I bought it last year. I am getting around 5 MPG instead of 8.
Live Data 8/63 frame
Number of DTCs stored in this ECU 9
Fuel system 1 status OL
Fuel System 2 status --
Calculated LOAD Value(%) 0.0
Engine Coolant Temperature(¡ãF) 42.8
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 1(%) 65.6
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1(%) -0.0
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 2(%) 65.6
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2(%) -0.0
Engine RPM(rpm) 0
Vehicle Speed Sensor(mph) 0
Ignition Timing Advance for #1 Cylinder(¡ã) 0.0
Intake Air Temperature(¡ãF) 44.6
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: RV
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

good afternoon my name is ***** ***** I will assist

what are the codes????

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Modules Present
ID Protocol
$10 SAE J1850 PWMStored Codes
--------------------------------------
P0174 $10 Generic
======================================
System Too Lean Bank 2
--------------------------------------
P0300 $10 Generic
======================================
Random/Multiple Cylinder
Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0301 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0174 $10 Generic
======================================
System Too Lean Bank 2
--------------------------------------
P0300 $10 Generic
======================================
Random/Multiple Cylinder
Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0301 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0174 $10 Generic
======================================
System Too Lean Bank 2
--------------------------------------
P0300 $10 Generic
======================================
Random/Multiple Cylinder
Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0301 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0302 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0305 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0306 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0302 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0305 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0306 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0302 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0305 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0306 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0307 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 7 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0309 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 9 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0310 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 10 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0307 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 7 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0309 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 9 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0310 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 10 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0307 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 7 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0309 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 9 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0310 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 10 Misfire Detected
Stored Codes
--------------------------------------
P0174 $10 Generic
======================================
System Too Lean Bank 2
--------------------------------------
P0300 $10 Generic
======================================
Random/Multiple Cylinder
Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0301 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0174 $10 Generic
======================================
System Too Lean Bank 2
--------------------------------------
P0300 $10 Generic
======================================
Random/Multiple Cylinder
Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0301 $10 Generic
======================================
Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
--------------------------------------
P0174 $10 Generic
======================================
System Too Lean Bank 2
-------------------------------------
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

ok, thanks. the first thing I would look at is the fuel pressure. common failure for 300 and lean codes. if it is low, it could set these codes.

the other thing is the intake manifold. it is common for the intake to leak and some coolant leaks down inside the tubes where the plugs are located and the boots on the coils arc out. pull number 1 and number 6 coils and see if there is any coolant in the tubes

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Roy,1) How can I measure the fuel pressure? I have a compression gauge that I would use for cylinder compression can I use that or do I have to buy something at autozone or harbor freight. If so please provide some details so I get it correct the first time.2) If I am looking at the Triton from inside the cab out where is number 1 and number 6 located. What tools do I need to take the coil off. i.e. 8mm socket? I don't want to strip anything.Thanks,Kevin
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

you can rent a fuel pressure tester from a parts store. there is a connection on the fuel rail. it should be on the passenger side.

number one is on the passenger front

number 6 is on the drivers front

7mm bolt secures the coil

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What should the fuel pressure be when I get the tester? I will get it shortly since I need to figure this out. Do you recommend Autozone or any other parts store like pep boys over NAPA. I have them all except Oreily around here.
Thanks,Kevin
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

2004 Ford Truck E 450 V10-6.8L VIN S

Vehicle » Specifications » Pressure, Vacuum and Temperature Specifications » Fuel Pressure

  • FUEL PRESSURE

ITEMSPECIFICATION

Key on, engine off240-310 kPa (35-45 psi)

Engine running193-310 kPa (28-45 psi)

© 2016 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved. Terms and Conditions

NAPA is a good source. I use Advnced around here because there no NAPA nearby

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Can you elaborate on this? there is a connection on the fuel rail. it should be on the passenger side. I have the fuel pressure tester but can't see where to connect it on the fuel rail. Can you send a picture or some more details.I took the cop off on the drivers side and it is dry. I attached picture
Thanks, Kevin
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

ok, see all the gray on the boot??? t is leaking spark there. if the nside tube is dry, I would start by replacing plugs and all boots. this is providing you find no coolant n the other tubes.

have no picture of the port. it looks like the a fitting for pumping up your tires. look around the fuel rail for this.

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I took two pictures of the spark plugs and three of the fuel rail. If you look at one of the pictures you will see a green connector that I disconnected and connected the fuel gauge tester to it and did not see any pressure from it. Is that where I test from?
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

the attachment will not open. can you re send??

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Here they are. Let me know what you think about the spark plug and if that green valve is where I put the fuel gauge pressure checker. If it is the place I did screw in there and turned the key on but did not start the engine.
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

no, that is a port for doing a smoke test on the evap system. I dont see a tap for the pressure. you will have to find the fuel filter under the truck and adapt to that line to check the pressure.

the plugs need to be changed. change them all with the coil boots

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
on a scale of 1-10 how important is it to test the fuel pressure. I just drove the RV to Florida from Boston then back and it drove fine except for the gas mileage. I was under the RV today and if I am going to take that filter apart I might as well as replace that too. It did not look easy to take the hose off and to tee it. Where is the fuel pump in the gas tank?
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

the fuel pump is in the tank. on a scale of 1 to 10, I rate it a 9.

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
In regards ***** ***** gas mileage would the spark plug looking like it does cause it to be that bad? I will replace the plugs and cop's but it will take a while since they are not easy to get to. I will work on getting the fuel pressure as well. I want to use the RV this weekend so I may just button it up and do everything next week when I get back.
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

yes the plugs will cause low mileage. you are not replacing the coils, just the boots.

Roy

please dont forget to rate me as it is the only way I get paid for my efforts. it will also keep this post open so you can continue to communicate with me.

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Roy, I will rate you after I get this resolved. Yesterday I tested the fuel pump pressure after I swapped the filter and it is 55 lbs which sounds on the high side. I drove the RV to New Hampshire and it was having a hard time going up the hills. I put in some mystery oil in the gas tank and just bought the plugs and boots and will replace them this week. I tried to get some help and nobody wanted to tackle taking the plugs out/in since the passenger side is very tight. Do you have any suggestions on how I can replace those without going insane! I am trying to get my RV inside this week since it is still cold in the northeast. I did clear the codes yesterday and will see if the engine light comes back on since I have a 80 mile ride home.
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

ok, fuel pressure is good

changing the plugs is always a challenge. you need to remove whatever is in the way of getting to the plugs. it takes about 4-5 hours in a shop

Roy

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
When I blew into the old fuel filter it was not that easy to blow through. It would have been good if you said to measure the fuel pressure after the fuel filter before you replace it so we would know if that could have been the problem. Oh well.If you want me to write you a good review and be done with this please outline in excruciating detail the steps to remove the plugs on a ford e450 super duty ecoline van. i.e. do I need to take off the fuel rails? Do I have a chance of taking any of the plugs out from the front or don't even bother taking all the air cleaner parts out and just attack from the back. I need to start this today since the weather is nice and I want to take the RV skiing. It was having a hard time making it up hills on the way out but on the back it was fine. I dumped mystery oil in the tank and topped it off with super unleaded. How can I test the coils? Can I use a voltmeter? Can we assume they are good since again the RV runs fine but is sucking down gas. The check engine light did not go back on after driving back 75 miles yesterday. When is it normal to replace spark plugs? Some one said he has had his truck for 110000 miles on the original plugs. Please answer all my questions and then I will close the request with a favorable rating. Thanks, Kevin
Expert:  Roy Belding replied 1 year ago.

blowing through a fuel filter is not a test of anything since you blowing on liquid not air. there is a bypass if it does become clogged.

since you are critical of my comments and your lack of ability to replace the plugs, I cannot give the details you want. I will opt out as I cannot give you every move needed. that is something you need to visually see and work through.

sorry I could not be more help

Roy

Expert:  Randall replied 1 year ago.

While it is admirable that you want to try and repair this yourself, I think a trip to a good shop would be more productive here as there may be multiple issues involved. And if YOU strip out the spark plugs, then you are going to have a big repair bill! Best to allow someone who does this for a living to do it. I have an RV shop and I don't even attempt this!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It is hard finding a good shop. I brought my RV to campers world and it was a huge disappointment. My regular mechanic can't fit my RV in there and even the local Ford dealership said they can't fit my RV to give it a sticker. Not sure why they make it so hard to swap out a set of plugs. I saw a guy do it on youtube and agree it is no picnic but the drivers side is doable it is passenger side I am worried about. Wouldn't it be cheaper if I did 7 out of the 10 and then brought it to the shop? Is it bad for the engine to run on 7 new plugs and 3 old ones for awhile. I am a masochist and will swap them out myself eventually but it will probably take me a long time. If I get stuck I would tap out.
Expert:  Randall replied 1 year ago.

Just find a good garage that does Ford work...........or even a good Ford dealership. The more you do would help I suspect on the cost, but some places don't want you to mess with it and it may affect the warranty. Tapping out a bad plug isn't as easy as it sounds either. The head may need to come off. Plugs can be changed outside a shop in the parking lot if needed. And stay away from Camping World..........lots of bad stories from their work!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Randall, If that is your final answer to take my car to a garage I will have to give you a 1 star rating. If you want to work with me while I swap out the plugs since that is the path I am going to take then that is fine and we can continue the journey together. Do you know if I have to take the fuel rail off in order to take the boots and plugs out on the passengers side of the motor? I got the first plug in the back left which I think is 10 out without having to take the rail out but I heard conflicting stories on the web. Thanks, Kevin
Expert:  Randall replied 1 year ago.

I think you are putting off the inevitable trip to the garage here......so I will opt out as well. Hope you get it figured out.

Expert:  Kenny Z. replied 1 year ago.

Hello, my name is***** and thanks for your question.

I read through this thread and would like to comment, I don't really care about a bad rating or not. I figure after reading this thread if you are satisfied with my service you will rate as you see fit. I am a dealer tech for 32 years and have replaced hundreds of plugs on these. You do not need to remove the fuel rails, once the coil hold down bolts are removed the coil will flex enough on the boot to clear the rail. If you are using hand tools for this then it is going to be very difficult a there is no room to swing a ratchet. It sounds like you don't need help for the drivers side. For the passenger side I do the front two plugs from under the hood and the rear three from in the cab. For the coil bolts I use a 7mm 1/4 drive chrome swivel socket on a locking 3" extension. I get the socket on the bolt and the extension positioned then use a 1/4" air ratchet to remove the bolts. Having to use a hand ratchet here would be very difficult but not impossible. I do this without removing anything but the aircleaner and doghouse. If you want to make it easier, you can remove the PCV breather from the passenger valve cover and also remove the transmission dipstick tube. Once all the coils are out I blow out the plug wells with compressed air. I see a lot of debris on those plug threads in your picture which means that same debris can fall in the cylinder when you remove the plug. For the plugs I use a 4" swivel plug socket/extension assembly and a 3/8" air ratchet for removal. I hand start all the plugs using the socket/extension assembly then use the air ratchet to run the plugs down very slowly then snug with a hand ratchet. I install coils and start all bolts by hand then run down snug with the setup I removed them with. I do not recommend doing these with hand tools - there is no easy way or shortcut. It takes forever because you can only swing the ratchet an inch or two at a time. Air tools eliminate that issue.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
HI Kenny,Thanks for the feedback. I was even thinking of taking the passengers side seat out to give me more room to get in there. I do have an air compressor and was thinking of using that if I have too. Does that plug look nasty enough to cause my gas mileage to be that bad? People have told me they are getting 100K on plugs now and I only have 52K. I wanted to put the ODB reader on it again to see if there are any codes and what the live data shows. Since I bought the plugs and boots already I just want to put them in anyways. Now my concern is I got champion double platninum and not sure if I should go back and swap them out for motorcraft. Do you think that is a big deal? I called my old buddy up who is a mechanic and he said to check the MAF filter as well but I just want to get the plugs behind me. I will take my time and just tap out if I think I can't get a plug out. I would not give a negative rating unless deserved. My RV is only 25 feet long and I am assuming I should get 8mpg. Is that a fair assessment? I am planning on starting the endeavor tomorrow so any other tips you can think of let me know. I am alloting the weekend to wrap it up. Thanks, Kevin
Expert:  Kenny Z. replied 1 year ago.

Kevin,

The plugs are worn and look a little on the rich side. I would return the Champions and get the factory Motorcraft plugs. The only way a plug will affect gas mileage is by misfiring, which by the codes you have several. I would suspect a coil breaking down more than a plug. Excessive plug gap is very hard on coils. If it were me I would replace all the coils and plugs with Motorcraft, no aftermarket parts. That's just me, I don't know your financial situation, replacing all coils and plugs with Motorcraft will be pricey. But you would be done with it for a good long time. You could have a maf going bad or even intake gaskets are common on these for hard to find vacuum leaks. 8 mpg sounds about right as long as you drive it easy. If you are on the gas harder then normal then expect 5-7.

Those fuel trims are not accurate as the PCM was in open loop. You need to clear codes then monitor fuel trims with the PCM in closed loop.

Expert:  Kenny Z. replied 1 year ago.

Hello again,

Thanks,

Kenny Z

Expert:  Kenny Z. replied 1 year ago.

Hello again,

Thanks,

Kenny Z