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I have just found out that my husband has been having, what

I like to call, an...
I have just found out that my husband has been having, what I like to call, an emotional affair with his secretary for eight years!! His job is 1 1/2 hours out of town so this has been quite easy, obviously. I discovered phone records for their phones (which he bought her) that show unbelievable conversation time between the two of them, especially when he was traveling......2,3,4 hours at a time, often into the wee hours of the morning. I had no idea 2 people could talk that much and for so many years! I never saw a bill because he always paid our bills and the business bills. Mega hours!!! His reply when confronted......"I had no idea we were talking that much". "Well, he would have to have been dead not to have known!!!!!?????!!??? And it was all done in secrecy!!
He also gave her a lot of extra money besides her salary. Other than the phone he paid for her gasoline, medicines, car repairs, Lowes, Wal mart, grocery bills (he said the groceries were for her niece and nephew who were not getting enough to eat!), clothing and shoes at times, hotel for 2 weeks when she had no power at her house because of a storm, etc. etc. and on it goes. oh and he gave her a credit card to make this easy for her!!! This has been going on for the entire time!! A credit card!!!! He says he feels sorry for her because she is so poor. I guess this is why they have exchanged a number of kisses a lot of hugging during this time!! Yes, they were just pecks on the lips, but how inappropriate is that for a boss and his worker!!! He insists that they, like everything else meant nothing.... right!!! He has also been to her house on 10 or 12 occasions...why? (he comes up with a reason!) They used to go to lunch a lot, but now just have lunch at the office, she runs all of his errands for him, does payroll and pays his bills (sometimes even our personal bills!!). She has told him everything there is to know about her life, everything!!! I don't know what all he has told her. He says he hasn't told her anything about his married life....I don't believe that! I don't think there is any doubt that this has been a HUGE emotional affair.....he says not! HA! I also think that after this length of time and this much involvement that surely it has become a sexual affair by now if not long ago. I think the huge amount of time spent talking has led to an unusual closeness which , of course, would have easily led to a sexual affair. Few people are as close as these 2. I have begged and demanded that he fire her and he has refused, saying that he needs her at work. Right! He says they have not had any type of affair. How in this world can I respond to him about this huge secret affair that he has lied so much about? I might add that our marriage has been pitiful,,,, he really has very little to do with me. me.
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Answered in 1 hour by:
12/4/2013
RealSupport
RealSupport, Psychotherapist
Category: Relationship
Satisfied Customers: 3,191
Experience: MHT-MHRS-MS-MA Integral Psychotherapist & Life Coach
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Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Hello, I am Rafael. Thanks for asking your question - I'm here to support you. (Information posted here is not private or confidential but public).

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

I am very sorry to know about this overwhelmingly shocking, sand a d frustrating reality you are facing.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

The scenario you have depicted seems to be truly painful and obviously unacceptable, but what makes this long term affair and its impact on your lives even more painful and devastating is his inability and unwillingness to truly acknowledge how wrong it has been, and not to take full responsibility for his actions.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

The dishonesty, denial, avoidance, manipulation and deceit are shocking, but it seems he has his priorities clear and set, and no matter how wrong it's been, he would not change his mind about it. I think that to believe this has been merely an "emotional affair" would be very naive and self-sabotaging, once this is about two adults who have known very well what they have been doing for all these several years. He has lived this dual life, and to come to terms with this painful reality is just very tough for anybody in your shoes.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Hello, thank you for joining the chat.

Customer:

yes, you are correct. I am avoiding the total reality of it, probably because he is such an excellent liar. And I just hate the thought of divorce, etc. But the fact that he refuses to get her out of our life even to save our marriage.....well, that should answer everything. He just keeps insisting that nothing "wrong" is going on.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

This is shocking and overwhelming, and most people in your shoes would feel this way in my opinion, but it is real and only you know how it feels to face it.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Now you need to carefully assess your core needs and expectations in this marriages, and set your priorities, being clear about what you are willing to tolerate and afford from now on.

Customer:

He refused to even discuss it for several months because he was stressed at work so it has been dragging on for a long time. I guess I need to just kick him out the door......I don't know what else to do. Or maybe an ultimatum about firing her and then an ultimatum about this type of thing never happening again. I can't believe all the money he gives her for support!!! well, I can't believe an of it. I can't believe he admitted to the kissing....quick pecks of no importance, he says

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Your support system needs to play an active role here, since this is not and would not be easy at all for you. Counseling / psychotherapy seem very important and necessary to work on processing the impact it has had in your life and to effectively cope with the repercussions it has and will continue to have.

Customer:

of course, the mega hours on the phone are enough for me to divorce him

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Unhappily everything you found clearly seems to show they have been having this long term affair for all this long, a full dual life.

Customer:

do you think he is just that good of a liar or has he convinced himself that all of this is of no importance to our marriage.....no it has to be just lines he is feeding me

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Unless he happens to be severely cognitively impaired, I do not see how his actions would not be very manipulative, dishonest, neglectful and abusive emotionally and morally.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

And it seems he is just unwilling to even acknowledge this huge shocking reality, and from there, for you to expect anything healthy and truly effective leading to a possible process of healing in your marriage seems to be very unrealistic.

Customer:

I guess that is right to the point and very clear!! I guess that is exactly what I needed you to say and what I haven't wanted to say to myself!! I just never thought that he would do this to me......ever heard that line before? well, I guess the fact that he will not get her out of the business and thus out of our life proves a lot. So, I guess I better get him out of my life

Customer:

and ignore his promises that this is no kind of affair.....which of course I knew was a lie

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

I strongly suggest you to look for good counseling and legal support in order to work on taking good care of yourself and coping with this painful situation, while getting all the support you can from your family and close friends.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

It is truly insulting and more wounding to get that from him instead of some respect and accountabilty

Customer:

I haven't even told anyone about this, but i guess a divorce will bring it into the open, won't it. Well, thank you for listening and helping. I appreciate it!

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

thus it would be unrealsitic and damaging to expect any better.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

You're very welcome. Please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions and to follow up, since I am here willing to support you as possible.

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Thank you for your trust. Please take gentle care and consistent action with necessary support.

Customer:

thank you....appreciate it....nice to talk to someone!!

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

You're very welcome.!

Rafael M.T.Therapist :

Bye for now.

Customer:

bye

RealSupport
RealSupport, Psychotherapist
Category: Relationship
Satisfied Customers: 3,191
Experience: MHT-MHRS-MS-MA Integral Psychotherapist & Life Coach
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago

I can't imagine why he would stay in this relationship with me? Can you? It is of no benefit to him in any way.....financially or business wise. We do have a child, but he is grown (26) and would probably side with his father anyway. He and I get along, but he and his father are "bonded".


Perhaps my husband loves me a bit, but certainly this secretary is "center" in his life and has been for quite a while. His attitude towards me has changed in that he is no longer easy going and rather gentle, wanting to avoid unpleasantness. Now he doesn't mind "getting into it" with me and often is rather offensive.....not his style at all as he has always been quiet and not easy to anger.....or at least he believes in avoiding discussion/problems at all cost......."forget it, that was yesterday" attitude. I asked him to move out and he refused. He seems to think all hi fine and I should just drop it.........and, I guess let he and his secretary continue. He says he no longer talks to her much. The phone records confirm........I don't believe it.......they must have other phones. (he travels a lot)

I am sorry your situation got to the present point. Nobody would know for sure all the reasons and drives behind his actions but him, and unless he happens to be honest, we could only speculate. It is true that many people do have dual lives like this, and they know why it works for them to keep it that way.

What you know is that his behaviors and attitude towards you are this hostile and not caring what you think or feel about it, dismissing you and reality, which is very painful and frustrating.

You do have and always continue to have the right, need and responsibility to choose what you truly want to take and afford in your life or not, no matter how he or other people could act or try to manipulate you. Please seriously consider individual psychotherapy as the best way to support yourself, to take good care of yourself and cope, doing what you really want to do and what would allow you to take good care of yourself and life without regret. This is something that requires sound support, and the best way to get it is through psychotherapy, besides of the help from those healthy and caring people around you.
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago

of course you are absolutely correct. To be a college graduate with plenty of life experience, you would think I could face this with more clarity and honesty with myself, and just do what should be done. : ) I seem to be avoiding doing that.....I guess my heart is trumping my head. It is as if I think he will be able to "explain away" all these indiscretions, lies, and betrayals. His response has been that he is sorry, he had no idea that all of these things would bother me......mega hours on the phone, some kissing and hugging, financial support on the credit card, still to this day?? Really?? Has he ever met me, or any other woman, before?? And these are just the things I know about. What pitifully unclever (that isn't a word, is it?) excuses!! This is a smart man, surely he could come up with better excuses.....he had time! No, it, and so much more, is right there in front of me and I am just refusing to face it. I wish the fury and rage and humiliation had not weakened to a degree and I wish I wasn't waiting for a complete explanation (as if I am going to hear anything any better! Like where all they had sex.....her house, at work, yes, I am sure there was sex.) I have no idea what I am waiting on.....he isn't begging for my forgiveness, since he is acting as if all of this was no big deal.....he is tired of my bringing up everything......what am I doing??? I know what you are saying is the truth and what I should face.......I just must do it, right? Well, thanks, XXXXX XXXXX are the only one I have talked to , you have been a big help and I appreciate it. Bye.

You're very welcome. This is why a truly believe individual psychotherapy and joining support group for codependency is so important for you to take good care of yourself and not to self-sabotage. Thank you so much for your trust.
RealSupport
RealSupport, Psychotherapist
Category: Relationship
Satisfied Customers: 3,191
Experience: MHT-MHRS-MS-MA Integral Psychotherapist & Life Coach
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago

HI, it is me again! things have been a bit better here with my husband and the employee he had the emotional affair with. He says it really wasn't anything, as you may see in the letter above. Massively long phone calls, extra money, gifts, attention, lunches together, kissing and hugging, etc......yes, it was definitely something!! He is spending more weekends at home and talking much less on the phone with her (could there be an alternate phone??), and I don't see much money going to her (but that would be so easy to hide). However, after what all has gone on with them, I don't trust him at all, not one tiny bit. I asked him to fire her in able to help our marriage heal and he refused. He said she wasn't hurting anyone by coming to work and he couldn't do that to her. And he needed her at work. His answer, of course, should have been..."I understand and she will be gone tomorrow!" I have tried to tell him that our marriage won't last with her working there with him. She now comes in when she chooses....unless he calls her in at a certain time. This is apparently fine with him!! This situation is killing me! I did go to work one day and try to talk to her. She became hysterical, calling me all kinds of names, and finally left when her Mother came to pick her up!!! This is like a teenage game!!! I am too old for this stuff!! Anyway, my concern is this...why is he insisting that she continue to work there if their "fling" or whatever it was, is over? Why does he still feel more responsibility for her than for me, his wife! Why does she STILL have his credit card that she uses for business, but also for other things for herself (not as much now that she knows I check it often)? Why is he more concerned with upsetting her lifestyle by firing her (says she won't be able to find another job) than he is with upsetting me by keeping her there after their emotional affair......which I still believe, but have no proof, was a physical affair also. I think I told you in another note that he has become an expert liar during all of this. so maybe he is still lying.....maybe the affair isn't over. He certainly has strong feelings for her whether it is over or not!!! I think enough is enough and she has to go whether it causes him problems at work or not!!! She should have been gone as soon as I confronted him about the affair, the money, the conversations, the cheating!!! He is even involved with her family affairs with her Mother and her crazy brother's family!! This is like a low quality TV soap opera!!! I think it is time for an ultimatum.......she goes now, without any extra money to "help her", and he never sees her again or we are finished! He won't like this and he may refuse, but I am not going to live with his "cheating partner" still "working" for him from now on. (He has finally admitted that he probably did talk to her on the phone too much!!! REALLY!!!!....is he 15 years old???) I can think of no other idea to finally END this relationship. I think enough time has been wasted! Do you think this is what needs to be done? Do you think there is another way to handle this? I really don't want a divorce, but I also am not going to put up with any of this anymore. I have put up with it too long already!!!

Yes, of course I strongly believe he may have another phone just to keep doing what he has been doing for so long, while manipulating and having you under control.

I think he keeps her there and gives her that freedom and privileged because they continue to have and take good care of their relationship, otherwise even common sense would lead his behavior to do everything you were expecting, but unhappily that is not happening at all.

Sadly the very words you use in your question show the answer for it, because he cares more about her and their relationship that about you he keeps doing things the way he does.

I am very sorry but based in everything you have described here, I do not see how you could be healthy, happy and have real well-being while this reality keeps perpetuated the way it has been, I believe it would just traumatize and wound you even more, pushing you into chronic depression, anxiety and other serious mental health disorders, which you do not need nor deserve in your life at all. But only you know what you want to afford now and in the long run.

Please look for individual psychotherapy and all the support you could get from family and close friends for this process to be less painful and for you to heal from it, since it is truly tough, but seems absolutely necessary and worthy.
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago

Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX I expected you to reply.


I have told absolutely no one about this situation. I am so heart broken and his behavior is so embarrassing that I really wanted to try this without involving any friends or family. So I sit around and do little and read millions of articles on the subject. He seems to think all is ok! I feel sick when he leaves for work each day. He has admitted that he talked too much on the phone with her...Really?? Mega hours!!! 4 or 5 hours at a time when he was traveling. Doesn't seem too distressed over all the money/gifts he has given her!!!! Says she is so poor!!! I really don't care!!! (he is always telling me that she is so poor that she can hardly afford food. housing, etc. I then found out he bought her a tanning bed!!........for someone who can barely afford the basics??? What a joke! I would have been mortified to have had that found out!! He then changed the story to he loaned her the money. That is his newest story line....he loans her money for things and she pays him back. If I wasn't so heart broken, this would be hilarious!) Of course, he hasn't told me about many of these "gifts" or money! He has a large and financially important meeting this weekend in another state and I am going with him. I will keep my mouth shut (why am I still protecting him and his feelings, etc??)until it is over. I will then give him two weeks to get her out of his/our life forever, ask how he plans to make this up to me (not that he ever can), and how he plans to continue our life......divorced or together. Then I could act like his "keeper" and go to work with him ever day for a few months and make sure he doesn't see her.........but I really don't want to do that!! How ridiculous, but necessary, yet absurd would that be!!! I might even make it more difficult and demand to be present when he tells her she is fired! Of course, this may not go my way. He may tell me to take a hike. But then I would know for sure that our marriage is over and there are no plans for healing! I am actually shocked at myself that I am even offering him another chance, especially when I have no idea what his response will be! but nothing seems to be about to change unless I push it as far as I can. So, i think I may.......I have nothing to lose!! Since I seem to have already lost him!.....Any advice, comments, desires to tell me I am an idiot : ) We have been married a long time and it seems a waste not to give it a shot. I would advise someone else to dump him and take him for all the money she could!!! Thanks for listening and commenting!!!!

Isolating yourself, and keeping the secrecy bout this reality is the worst approach anybody in your hoes could take, and the best for his abusive ways, since it literally leaves you the most vulnerable to his manipulation, neglect and abuse. This i why I say that the role your support system should play here is key, otherwise you could self-sabotage, tolerate and even enable him and his unacceptable ways.

Codependency is a serious problem many people suffer, because it is rooted in many cultures, we are raised with traits of it, but when it gets deeper, we allow and promote people using, abusing, manipulating and neglecting us in different subtle or obvious way. This is one of the reasons why psychotherapy is so important, for you not to self-sabotage, to truly work on processing your feeling, sand healing from what it takes to face reality.

Reading about useful ideas, without fully implementing them does not help, but becomes counterproductive, since you literally numb yourself from the very sensitivity you need to assess reality and to take good care of yourself.

I am sorry, but as you said, I do not think the plan about you becoming his "keeper", since the very fact of you finding that as the only way to try to make sure he does not betray you, is dysfunctional, and it would never truly work, since whenever respect, trust, loyalty, caring and more are not real, spontaneous, they become fake and manipulative, and you'd be exposing yourself to more destructive and painful situations, besides of the fact that I doubt he would allow any of this as you said.

His behaviors show his inability and unwillingness to even acknowledge reality, so to take full responsibility of it and commit to change, then any expectation beyond that reality would not help you. It is very sad and frustrating, it is overwhelmingly painful, but it is reality, and only by facing it, and getting all necessary support,, you would be able to start your healing process and rebuild your life.

But you are the only one who knows what else and for how long you are going to afford things in this marriage, I suggest hope and invite you not to delay getting all necessary support, in order to take good care of yourself and not to deepen the wounding and pain in your life, but to start healing and growing from it.

Rafael
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago

your advice is exactly what I would say, intellectually, to anyone. It is just so much harder when years of love are involved! But years of an affair are also involved now. My love doesn't change his behavior, does it? And he has had time to change and he knows how much he has hurt me, so I guess that says it all........ he is hurting me and protecting her and whatever relationship he has with her. That is more than enough for me to know and act on. the "acting on" it is just so hard....yet I can't believe that I even hesitate!


This shouldn't be happening at my age!! We are both 60, married in 1980 at age 26........34 years together! And now this! Life is a bitch sometimes!!! Thanks for your advice and help and for listening. your advice is right on the number.......so i guess I have to act on it! .....as I knew! Thanks again!

Love should never tolerate nor enable any body to use, abuse, manipulate or neglect you under any circumstances, since once it does, it becomes distorted and destructive. Understanding things is one thing, and coming to terms with reality and taking consistent actions is another totally different, one much easier, the other tough, and that's why your support system must play and active role in it plus professional assistance too.

This should never happen! but unhappily it does happen and a lot,and many people do choose to codependently a tolerate/enable it because of what other people would think an say about it, property, finances, children and other reasons, but for sure, that does not make it fine , but just deepens the dysfunction with all the abuse, neglect and pain they create.

Please take gentle care and consistent action with the right support, and feel free to contact me as necessary. If at any time you want to consider confidential professional counseling or psychotherapy online, instead of this public forum, let me know, since I am willing to support you that way too.

Rafael
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago

Thank you so much. I know that everything you say is correct. I can't believe, as I said, that I am even hesitating to act. I thought I was a stronger person than I, apparently, am. But I guess it is time for that stronger person to step up to bat and take control of my life again. So I will........As you are the only "voice" in my life right now, I thank you for pushing me, well actually pointing out to me, that I do need to take that control for myself. My husband has always been a great, supportive guy, very hard working and generous to a fault......very loving, although restrained with that love, but quietly giving. Where did that guy go....rhetorical question! So sad!!!


I thank you for everything and will think about all you have said......and I will act!


I will let you know how things work out. I may also consider your private counseling. Thanks again!

You're very welcome. I am and will be here to support you if necessary as much as possible, and feel honored because of your trust.

Rafael
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Master\u0027s Degree
950 satisfied customers
I have OCD, depression, eating disorder. I used to not be
I have OCD, depression, eating disorder. I used to not be able to have family or friends over unless I was my perfect self. That would mean eating good and on my low weight side and active. I started … read more
TherapistMaryAnn
TherapistMaryAnn
Counselor
Master's Degree
1,706 satisfied customers
Whenever I get drunk I have urges to cheat on my partner, by
Whenever I get drunk I have urges to cheat on my partner, by thinking about using prostitution … read more
JohnMichaels,MS,LPC
JohnMichaels,MS,LPC
Counselor
Master\u0027s Degree
165 satisfied customers
Dumped my boyfirend yesterday. Basically he was replying my
Basically he was replying my messages so late, whenever I call he says I will call you back and he doesn't, he says his busys but doesn't tell me? Yesterday when I said we need to be frends he said you know we won't be friends and he also said we are not meant to be together … read more
matt50025002
matt50025002
Owner of a waste management company
Master\u0027s Degree
118 satisfied customers
I promissed an update! Well here it is. So yesterday she
Hey,I promissed an update! Well here it is.So yesterday she cancelled the date because she was tierd (what she told me). And she told me that we can go out today, and a moment ago I asked her when we … read more
Therapist Leslie
Therapist Leslie
Masters, Professional Psychology
5 satisfied customers
Question for Female Therapist. - Thanks for re-connecting
[Second opinion] Question for Female Therapist. - Thanks for re-connecting with me. In my last letter (Oct 27),I indicated that Ro had said "hi" and started to say, "Harv how have you bee....."but the… read more
TherapistMaryAnn
TherapistMaryAnn
Counselor
Master's Degree
1,706 satisfied customers
I am in a bit of s spot I talk to guys on the internet and I
I am in a bit of s spot I talk to guys on the internet and I have two guys that like me a lot. And they both decided to come home at the same time just s day apart should I tell them about each other … read more
TherapistJen
TherapistJen
Licensed Clinical Social Worker
Master\u0027s Degree
950 satisfied customers
My problem is about a relationship in which I m into from
Hi, My problem is about a relationship in which I m into from past 1 year. I am married and she is also married but currently she is staying away from her husband though they meet each other occasiona… read more
JohnMichaels,MS,LPC
JohnMichaels,MS,LPC
Counselor
Master\u0027s Degree
165 satisfied customers
I just ran into my ex at the grocery store. It's been a
I just ran into my ex at the grocery store. It's been a year. He stood behind me in line at the check out. I ignored him. I totally broke down afterward. I know i still have feelings for him. But he t… read more
TherapistJen
TherapistJen
Licensed Clinical Social Worker
Master\u0027s Degree
950 satisfied customers
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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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