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Dr. Norman Brown
Dr. Norman Brown, Marriage Therapist
Category: Relationship
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Experience:  Family Therapist & teacher 35+ yrs; PhD research in couples
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I am a bit old fashion about when to make love in a new rel.

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I am a bit old fashion about when to slepp with a man after we decide to be monagemus. Should I wait till he tells me I am falling in love with you? Or I love you? In otherwards when is the right time for this to be sinceI have heard so many woman tell me they feel terrible that they slept with a man and then he suddenly stops calling as much ect.... I do not want this to happen, I have been broken hearted enough times in my life. He is 52 and I am 55 if the answer is different do to age and not wanting children. Thanks

nphbrown :

America doesn't have unified cultural expectations about this issue, and that makes it very hard. I can't say "just trust your heart," because if he's charming and seems like a good prospect for a long relationship--perhaps even marriage, then your heart might be ready. But charm doesn't guarantee either moral integrity or compatible interests and lifestyle choices.

nphbrown :

I suggest that you tell a man on the first date "I want to get to know you" and use that to restrain physical contact. If he doesn't like you enough without being sexually turned on (and kissing or fondling sexual parts), then he probably won't stay long when there's not sex each time he sees you. Some men are so anxious to feel successful that they won't call again if they don't get sex on the first date. Let them go.

nphbrown :

My wife told me when we got interested (she was 33, I was 41) that she wanted to find out if we had a good friendship, and she would wait 3 months before having sex. She had changed her mind by the end of 3 weeks. But she had seen that I wanted her enough for who she was to stay interested for 3 months. I've stayed interested for 27 years.

Customer: That was a great answer, we touched on the subject on our first date and we have not gone all the way sort of speak, but we did somewhat fool around. I am attracted to him and he is looking forward to spending time with me this weekend. When I stayed over last time he wanted to
nphbrown :

We had a lot in common: teaching and psychotherapy as professions, musical instruments, deep discussions about human issues.

Customer: fool around with me but he has 2 kids 13 , and not a lock on the bedroom door. I said his kids might come in , and that would be oful. His son always comes in without knocking, finally I insisted he get locks for the bedroom door and he has since the last time I was there.
nphbrown :

Fooling around my wife did also--so she was hedging her bets by letting me experience how exciting it could be to get erotically engaged with her. But I'd say don't JUST do the normal things on dates (like dinner, a show, a bar, dancing) but instead talk about what you LIKE to do and what's important to you in life. You want to get him to go beyond what he knows any woman will like, and do and talk about things that are important to HIM.

Customer: I have one more issue that is bothering me about texting. Would you give me another answer on this and tell me what you think please?
nphbrown :

In the case of him having 2 kids, they might be the most important influence in his life, esp if they're always with him. Then he may just want you to do things his kids want to do. Yes, what about texting. (I am trying to tell you how to protect yourself from being dumped after you've had sex--or also you might be used for a very limited relationship, that is rest & relaxation, and play and sex--since he has many responsibilities and he might not be ready emotionally to commit to a new love as the center of his life. You also need to figure out what you are looking for, because you might want that same limited relationship for yourself.

nphbrown :

Go ahead about the texting, or comment on what level of relationship you think you want.

Customer: This man is a texter, he texts me in the morning to say good morning, he will text me at lunch time and last night he texted me at 8:30 p.m. to tell me he had a tiring day he had a headache, his shoulders hurt and he was going to bed, Goodnight sleep well xoxo. This to me is sort of difficult because sometimes I want to talk. He does take 40 mg. of Prozac for the last 13 years, and I wonder if this is one of the problems with people that take that drug, My sister takes the same amunt for years and she would rather text than talk. I find that to be a strange way of communicating, sometimes I do ask him to please call me and he will. What are your thoughts on this? We will be spending 24/7 this weekend so we will be talking for sometime. I notice that he needs to take naps as well.
Customer: He is 52 and I am 55 and I have overheard him telling his children that he wants a woman in his life. He has an nanny that has been living in the home from Monday to Friday because his wife passed away the day the kids were born. He did get a huge payout for that and had to hire this woman and she has been working for him ever since. She does have her own room and the kids love her. He said he plans on keeping her even after he takes on a partner. I have considered moving in with him and seeing how we get along and this was another concern of mine. He was ready for me to come and live with him, and I have decided to see how it goes first for a while.
nphbrown :

Hmm. How long have you known him? So you're being auditioned as the partner who finally replaces his tragically deceased wife after 13 years. Is he also Asian?

Customer: No he is American, I have known him about 2 months. We met on a dating sight, we have both been on the same one for a year. we finally met. I liked him very much. He had a girlfriend for 8 years , and something happened and he said he was terribly hurt by her breaking up with him. Said something about having sex with her only one time. Kinda hard for me to understand that. evidently she had been abused by men and she had very deep emotional issues. I have met his mother and one of his very good friends that could not say enough great things about him. They met 13 years ago in a bereavement class and stayed friends ever since. The man said that he was wonderful to him back in those days and that he will do the world for you. That was very promising to me to say the least. He told me after the lunch we had that his friend said I was a keeper.
nphbrown :

Is he able to get very happy? Very excited? How well do his different moods fit with your own mood possibililties? If you were going to take a vacation trip with him, for how long and how far away would he go? [But you can't ask him questions like this until you've found out what activities and interests you have in common.] I'm concerned here that you're putting on a yoke and a leash if you marry him, and you might also have a difficult time gaining acceptance from his twins. These things can be worth the sacrificing, IF you will get some very precious kinds of intimacy. Look thru this list and decide how much each one matters to you, (even if you DON'T want to share that with your partner (like Spiritual/religious concerns, or work for many people--they don't want their partner involved in these with them). 1. Physical (medical, massage)

nphbrown :

2. Sexual. 3. Emotional (empathic attunement & expression) 4. Intellectual (what subjects?) 5

nphbrown :

5. Aesthetic (appreciating beauty in Nature, in art) 6. Creative. 7. Recreation. 8. Work/

nphbrown :

9. Facing crises, problems & pain together. 10. conflict 11, Commitment. 12. Spiritual. 13. Communication

nphbrown :

Then reflect on which of these you already have with him. You can also ask him about what he likes to do in these different areas--maybe one such inquiry per conversation, one that you do care about and you therefore want to find out how well he might relate to you in that area.

Customer: I can go on and on, because I have had the worst luck with men. I talk about not having sex till I get to know you better right away. and right now I am doing poorly at work because my season will not start till november and I did mention this to him and thought I would be better off waiting to have a relationship till I am more financialy stable since I do not want him to think that is the main reson I am lookking for a lifetime partner to be married and be with someone till I am old and have not answered the texting thing , what do u think??
Customer: and then there is one more thing. His nanny is cuban, I was born in Cuba but my parents are not spanish. he absolutely does not want me to speak spanish, said he is agaisnt spanish people because when he was young growing up in Miami,all the spanish people talked very badly about Americans, so he said ever since he heard that day in and day out he dislikes the spaanish language. I do not have a problem not speaking this in front of him, however I was just wondering what you think about this in regards XXXXX XXXXX human race. He said, I can not believe I might end up with a spanish born lady and that would be so ironic especially to his peers that know him.
Customer: honestly, I am a homebody, I like gardening and having a confortable home to relax. I enjoy my prosession as a hairstylist which I have been for the last 27 years. I would rather cut back to partime and I would like the man that I am with to honor this and with him ahving 2 kids I would be more than happy to take them places if dad is working or just wants to stay home.
nphbrown :

The texting thing: I know what you mean about texting. My 23 yr old daughter taught me to text, and I find it amusing, and I also do texting a little with a couple of my clients who are distant. And sometimes having to say something important in very few words is good for me. But the phone is much better for me, not for my wife. You could negotiate some rules for when you'll respond to texts and when you won't unless he'll call you--probably when he has more time and so do you.

nphbrown :

I gotta go cash a check, & be back in 20m

Customer: omg that is so funny o.k. thanks
Customer: ok all this stuff a side, I will go with the flow tomorrow whe I arrive at his home. If I feel he is truly into me and I feel like I am ready than so be it. It has been a month and I know it is not 3 months, but I really like him and it has been a very long time for me. Thanks for all the wonderful information and if you have anything else you would like to add please do. I will accept as soon as you send me your final thoughts.
nphbrown :

final thoughts. You're moving into his castle (I picture you in Marin County Calif, where I lived when I met my wife in 1984-1987). That means you don't have ANY territory of your own. You'll need to start carving out some territory for yourself. And that's both actual space of your own AND issues he needs to bend on in order to make room for you AND your personality, not just your warm body in his bed.

nphbrown :

It's a good idea to let him see what matters to you and start making room for that. You like to speak Spanish, so does his nanny. So (this is just an example, not a "do or die.") why not negotiate about Spanish. There's a whole wonderful world "South of the Border" (unless you're still in Miami) with cultures, landscapes and zest for life that he's deprived himself of. So you offer to Teach Him Spanish--AND his kids. And enrich his life by traveling to some of those wonderful places, maybe next spring to celebrate his and your new life. Costa Rica is mild all year around in the central valley.

nphbrown :

Don't be like a mail-order bride from HongKong or the Philippines. Think about what YOU like to do that you'd like HIM to come on board with you on. If you start out NOT needing any room for your personality and interests, you'll allow him to unconsciously project onto you everything he wants in a woman "a keeper"--and cultural richness is a great value you have to offer, and it makes you a person to be reckoned with.-

nphbrown :

Now I gotta go again, cuz my daughter needs me to get her money out of ATM, because I'm controlling it.

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Customer: replied 5 years ago.
You have a great sense of humor, I must say thank you very much, and you probably have not heard the last of me. I wish I knew what the heck I want right now. Or probably at 55 a good husband who makes good money I can work if I want to or not and take care of the home and kids. I have never lived that life, but he did ask me what I wanted and I believe I said these things to him on day one. He said when we first met that he had this deal him and his partners were working on for a year and it was going to go through possibly that first week we met which would put him in a very good position financially. The second week went by no deal. The third, no deal but this week wednesday the deal went through. However no check for another couple weeks. How do I believe all this? I guess in a couple of weeks. Thanks again

Thank you Customer, it's been a privilege getting to know you a bit, and I'll be happy to respond to you again if you ask for me. I also do dream interpretation at JA. And I have my own website that for the same activities that's booting up this month. I hope your own deal goes thru (like Bob Dylan in a recent song, I'd like to "be there when the deal goes down.") I hope all the buds in your garden turn into colorful blooms, with a hint of Cuban Chinese hotsauce in their fragrance.


Norman M. Brown, PhD, LMFT

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