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Ms Chase
Ms Chase, Life Coach
Category: Relationship
Satisfied Customers: 2897
Experience:  Over 20 yrs experience with Relationships, Sexuality, Friendship, and Family Issues
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I am involved with a married man. I did not want the ...

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I am involved with a married man. I did not want the relationship, but he was very persistent, and I gave in eight months ago. He was acting like a teenager in love, while at that time my emotions were in check. I have Major Depression and told him not to toy with my emotions because I was very fragile. He claimed he understood, and never would. Two months went by, and basically for the past six months I have been living a daily dose of torture, because he has gone to having his emotions in check, to me being the 16-year-old in love. He has told me he is in love with me. He has told me he cares for me. He has told me I am his best friend. He has told me he can't wait to see me, and really enjoys the time we have together. He has told me his wife is cold and they do not talk. But, as of late, he is becoming more and more distant. He is cruel at times. He used to talk very candidly to me about inner feelings, but now if I broche a subject he feels he is being analyzed.

Hello Marylee

Did you have depression before you got involved with him?

What are your ages?

Did he say he was going to leave his wife?

What do you want to do now?

Are you in counseling?


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Did you have depression before you got involved with him? Yes, and he knew. I told him not to toy with my emotions because of the fragile state I am in. He had his own agenda, and I believe that went right over his head.

What are your ages? Him 61 - Me 46.

Did he say he was going to leave his wife? No. He told me he would never leave his wife, but said that he wishes I were his wife. He became delusional and said we were Michael and Apollonia from the Godfather (when Michael went down to Cicily he married Apollonia while still married to Kay in the United States).

What do you want to do now? Hospitalize myself, and get my head on straight. This morning since I wrote I had a bad physical experience. Very out of the ordinary for me. I believe my body took on some of the stress, because I fainted, vomited, my hands tingled, and I could not balance. It lasted about two hours. I want him out of my system. But, I am very attached. But, I want him out of my system. He is so bad for me, and all the while telling me how much he wants to help me and always be there for me. He never is there for me. Except at his CONVENIENCE.

Are you in counseling?

Hello mary

Thank you for that additional information. One of the hardest things we have to learn in our lives is to not give our emotions into another persons keeping. It's hard to remember that because when we fall in love it can become such a strong and powerful emotion that we literally want to lose ourselves in it. He has told you that he will never leave his wife, and yet he was still willing to get involved with you and make promises to you, some of which he may never have intended to keep.

All the wishing in the world won't make you his wife and you are right in that this is delusional thinking. While this may have been a romantic thought or gesture, the fact is Michael was not married when he married Apollonia.....he only married Kay when he returned home from Italy.

It seems almost as if he's putting you through a lot of changes and since you are already dealing with depression, it's even worse. You have to figure out some way to let him go, if not forever, at least for the moment until you can get things together emotionally. When emotional issues manifest into physical issues things can get dangerous for you, you could pass out and really hurt yourself amongst other things. At least you are starting to be aware of his selfishness and deceit, the real issue will be separating from him. Do you have any friends or family that can help?

I welcome your thoughts, let me know if you want to talk more.


Ms Chase and other Relationship Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
I need to separate from him so bad, but have no support system. He is killing me. Every single day I feel horrible. I had gotten pretty strong for me, and then this came along. Can you help me just stop taking or giving calls, e-mails, texts, and voice mails? I need someone to talk to whenever I feel I need him. Someone to stop me. Since my last reply, I talked to him briefly and it was horrible. He of course had to cut it short because he was talking on the sly. Even though I was upset, he had to go. He always says we will talk about what is bothering me, but he never does. I told him that I feel he is throwing me away, and he said that he takes that that I want him to. To me, that is a cop out. I read that as me wanting reassurance, and him actually wanting to throw me away, but does not want the guilt so blames me for asking for it. I am dying here.


You are very intuitive as to what is going on here. I agree that him saying that you want him to throw you away is just a way of deflecting blame off of himself. I can be here for you as much as I can, but I can't be here 24/7. If you feel like you might be seriously ill over this, then you may want to consider going to the emergency room, or going to stay with someone (anyone) even if only for a couple of days. He's basically made his choice. He chose his marriage. Right now, I need you to choose you. Imagine that you fall apart, and that you lose whatever ground you have gained, and all over someone who could not be honest with you? I wouldn't give him the satisfaction. Right now I don't want you to be sad, I want you to get mad and I want you to take back your life. Understand that you are intelligent, you are worthy, and sure, you may have made a mistake here, but you can change that. You can change your life at any time. Even as you are reading these words, you can decide to take your life back, block his phone number, change your phone number, change your email and move away from this poisonous, disastrous situation.

You already know you should have never gotten involved with a married man, particularly being depressed, you just didn't need that added aggravation. Only now, you are realizing it was a mistake, so it's time to be strong, for yourself. I detect more strength from you than from a lot of people I speak to. I know you are capable of getting through this. I'm here if you want to talk more


Ms Chase and other Relationship Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
You are so helpful. Thank you. Here is an example. He is up North with his family. IN THE BEGINNING, he would still find a way to check in with me via text msg or something. Believe me, I do not like this sneaky stuff, & did not start it, but as an adult (even tho disabled) I went along w/it back then so must claim some responsibility. Anyway, he left Fri a.m. & will b gone until Sun p.m. IN THE OLD DAYS, he would have had coffee w/me early Fri a.m. b4 he left. Now, nothing. While he is up there, nothing. I sent him a couple e-mails, including 1 that mentioned my physical illness yesterday. He dcoesn't care, I know. Now, here is where things will stand. He will probably get in touch w/me somehow 2night Sun when he gets back 2 line up coffee 4 Mon. We are back to CONVENIENCE mode again. This is where my behavior has been wrong. I need to recognize his FAILURE 2 contact me LIKE HE USED TO over the weekend, & NOT TAKE HIS CALL TONIGHT OR TOMORROW A.M. OR WHEN HE FINDS IT CONVENIENT. I keep doing it & doing it & I am going 2 die if I don't stop. I have done the dirty deed of asking him to check in on me on weekends when I noticed he stopped, but of course, that just made him not want to do it more because no one likes to be told what to do, though a kind act, and he loves the game of me missing him more. Screw that! (Sorry) His game is over. Help me. How do I avoid his CONVENIENCE contacts now that the big trip and weekend are over (will power, discipline, fortitude, SELF-RESPECT), and how do I deal with it if he perhaps does not make any calls. I cannot FREAK OUT and call him.


You are correct in that you have to accept some responsibility for this situation. You knew it was wrong, but allowed your emotions to rule. He has shown, bit by bit in the way that he is handling things that he doesn't care as much as he says he cares or that he is slowly distancing himself from you, possibly in lieu of a breakup. You already know that you deserve better, so you have to ask yourself what you're getting out of it should you choose to continue contact with him. Are you afraid to let go? Does it keep you involved? Are you afraid of what you'll do without him? Maybe if you miss some of his calls and not be there when he expects you to be, he will see how it feels. Are you ready to let go of him, or are you going to stay involved is the question you need to figure out.


Ms Chase and other Relationship Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
He never called or set up coffee for this morning, so he is obviously really distancing himself or abandoning me. So, now I have to deal with that. A person who said they would always be there is being cold and unreliable. Gee, just what a disabled person with Depression needs in their life. I do feel bad that he never called, but for some reason, I saw it coming. He has been distancing himself such that that would be par. What gets me is why? Because I became the girl he wanted me to be back when my emotions WERE in check? I became a person who adored him. I know we are quirky and love a challenge, and I became none. I hate games, and since he is a gameplayer obviously, more reason to get the creep out of the my life. But, I feel bad. This is gonna be hard.

Yes Mary, it is going to be hard, that's a fact. Im sorry he did not call you for coffee, it does seem like he's attempting to put space between the two of you. People say things that they may mean at that moment, but sometimes those things change. Most would say that if feelings change, they were never meant in the first place, but that is your judgement to make. May I ask, what is your disability? Are you able to get out of the house or do things on your own?


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
You are going to be so disappointed with me, but I have to tell someone. He got back, and had some bad news at his job that he relayed to me over the IM (a $50M contract did not come through). He left work early, and came over. I kept everything light, and was feeling pretty strong. His colleague called a couple of times, and he did not take his calls. I asked him, "He is probably wanting to talk about the lost contract, why don't you talk to him?" He said, "Because he will ask where I am and stuff." I said, "Well, why don't you tell him you are with a friend having a couple of beers to cry in?" He said, "He would ask "who?" I said, "Why don't you tell him your friend, Mary." He said, "I could not tell him that." I said, "Why not?" He did not really have an answer, but I could tell that it was on his mind to "console" his colleague. Anyway, here is where it gets ugly. We had sex. Yikes. Then, he said, "I should go so I can call (his colleague)." And, proceeded to say, "Is it rude to leave right after "finishing?" I did not have a response. What should I have said to this person? He is 61 years old, and looks to me for such answers. Plus, what is up with being such a mouse around his colleague. What is it any of his business? I need to start looking at this guy as a real mouse. I do feel disrespected, and I deserve it.

Hello Mary,

It is not my place to be disappointed or judgmental of you. We all have our weaknesses and when you are ready to let go, you will. I'm not so sure it was his colleague calling, it was probably his wife, and if it was truly his colleague calling it's possible he would have questioned him being with any woman but his wife. I don't think his question about being rude was meant for an answer, it's more of a rhetorical question in that he already knows it's rude and wrong, yet he did it anyway.

The botXXXXX XXXXXne is he gets what he wants, when he wants it....and only because you allow it. So you have to ask where's the payoff for you? what are you getting out of the situation?


Ms Chase and other Relationship Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Nothing, except at his CONVENIENCE. I am an unpaid hooker. I have told him that I feel this way, and he does not like to think of it that way, but it is absolutely the case. People can be very complex, and he and I are. I am "quirky" in the way that I am "baffled" that he treats so poorly the person who, if vindictive, could hurt or ruin his upstanding (yes, he has managed this for 61 years, with his behavior) reputation, career, and marriage among other things. In conjunction with treasuring those things which seem to hang in the balance. Here is what is really sickning. I love and care about him more than these other things, and he knows it. That is why he so intensely pacifies them, and me, he treats accordingly knowing I will love him anyway. The weird thing is, does he want to be caught? He "says" he struggles with all this. Maybe the extreme situation of being caught would settle it all for him. He could dump me without guilt because he could blame these other people for his action, and spend the rest of his days working for forgiveness from them. Back to the matter at hand, what would he think of a guy who asks this rhetoric question of his daughter, sister or even secretary or mere acquaintance?


Thats not totally true. As humans, we do nothing without some type of payoff....even when that payoff doesn't seem very attractive. Sometimes our payoff is playing the victim, sometimes it's feeling sorry for ourselves, or maybe the power of knowing that you could be vindictive and cause a lot of havoc in his life. Its seems that in a way, he knows this and yet he almost flirts with the danger of getting caught, perhaps he is right, he does in a way want to be caught....who knows. You have to concern yourself with yourself and the reasons why you continue to let him hurt you. You already know what he would think of a guy who asked this rhetorical question to someone he purported to love, he probably would think that person is a the question is, what does he think of himself, and what does he think of you.




Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Exactly. Thank you.
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Hi. It is me again. I felt I needed to Accept your answer so you would get some compensation, but would like to keep tabs on this situation with you, Ms. Chase. Going back to September 2007 when we first met, I knew the complications of a married man. I had been there (so why again? like I said, I'm quirky). Actually, lonely. Last night I had it out with him. And, in my lowest form, but I felt frustrated and that it was the only thing that would get through to him. It makes him like me less, but maybe that is what I want. By the way, as far as being caught, he says he lives in mortal fear of that. Hence, the power of knowledge. Anyway, to stay on track here (ha ha, I am notorious for jumping around), this guy who I make sound like a monster, can be a good friend. That is what I wanted last fall. And, that is where my attempts to encourage him to get closer to his wife, not toy with me, etc. were very sincere back then when I felt MY emotions were in check. His emotions were obviously in his zipper, and anything I was saying was not aiding to that end. Hence, the affair. For two months it was great (we have heard this one a million times, huh?). But, then the dwindling of attention, yada yada yada. I hate that. Doesn't everybody, but I hate it to the point it makes me crazy. Like I said, I consider hospitalization and all kinds of extreme measures. One thing he has always told me was that he would never abandon me (yes, I have abandonment issues stemming from being an orphan starting at age 9). Yesterday, he told me that if he were "caught," and the "others" said to throw me away he would. That is where I live. Or, don't want to live. Abandonment is my demon, among a few others. For eight months, he said he would NEVER abandon me, then suddenly he gave me a stipulation where that would happen. That drove me to the ugly I mentioned earlier. Ready? I think you know what it coming. I told him that the relationship is too risky to have it looming that if he were caught he would throw me away. Why get MORE attached, and have it be even more painful. I told him that I felt the abandonment should start right now, and that I was going to enlighten his wife with the many e-mails, text, IMs, and VMs I have saved. They would bury him. Ugly, I know. And, not me. But, I have been through daily pain for six months. It is about time someone share in this pain. I am not proud to be writing or thinking this, but I gave him everything he expressed he wanted those first two months. My feelings never changed, but his waned. I feel he owes me. After the heated conversation, he agreed to go back to those first two months. We will see where that leads. What I wanted to say, is that at that point, and my initial (the first two days or weeks before things got heated) feelings were "in check" for me, flaming from his pants (but, hey, it is me we are talking about here, right?), and here it comes, he can be a very good friend. That is what I wanted and needed from the start. I need good friends in my Depressive state. Not lovers to mess with my already unstable head. So, in the end, he said he was going to try to go back to the beginning, and we are going to "ween" outselves off the sexual aspect (which makes me happy, because believe it or not, I was going to church and trying to live a pure life before this, and feel a responsibility to my own soul, as well as his). And, we will be good friends. It brings to mind my favorite show, Seinfeld, where Jerry and Elaine became good friends after have an intimate relationship. That is TV, so it may not be possible. But, that is where we stand now. If I Accept from time to time, will you let me keep "venting" on this to you. And, your responses are always great. I will Accept more often, too. Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX By the way, I am in therapy, but (here's a kudo) you have helped me more than any of them. (Being an orphan since nine, I have been in therapy most of my life.)

Hello Mary,

Thank you for the accept. Again, as I told you before, I am not in a position to judge you, only to help if I can.

Tell me some things, whatever you feel like answering, ok?

What is the nature of your disability?

How did you become an orphan?

Tell me about the other relationship with the married man?

Did you talk to your therapist about what we've discussed?



Customer: replied 9 years ago.
What is the nature of your disability? In 1997, I was in my 14th year as a civilian with the Navy. I loved my job, and exceled. But, some people decided to pull as fast one on me, and provided me with inadequate equipment to get my many deadlines completed. Being a high achiever, a lot was expeced of me, and I could no longer perform up to that potential because of the faulty equipment. It was intentionally provided me for me to fail. To prevent from sounding paranoid, this was all relayed to the workers' compensation claims examiner who approved the claim. Not a small feat in Federal government. I developed from this situation (inadequate/equipment/co-worker hostility) Major Depression, Panic with Agoraphobia, Tinnitus, and Anxiety Disorders. I have had to live with these for over 10 years. I am in therapy, but have been classified as chronic. It was just so traumatic, and I lost so much (both physical possessions, and emotional well-being) that I am not able to get it back to this day.

How did you become an orphan? My parents divorced when I was nine. My mother hit the road as a lounge piano player, and my father married a woman who only wanted HER children to be raised by my father. I was juggled around from foster homes and sisters until I finally married at 18 in large part to have a place to live (divorced at 26). Even in adulthood I could consider myself an orphan in a way because I have had a fiance' call off a marriage, and take my house away; and another man tell me I was too sick to take care of my condo, and had me sign a quit claim deed over to him with the stipulation he would never leave me homeless. He soon sold the property, gave me none of the promised half proceeds, and I was indeed homeless. I have lived in my car, and on "park" benches.

Tell me about the other relationship with the married man? Please clarify what you are asking. Do you mean the relationship I had at he beginning with this man I am talking so much about now? Or, have I mentioned that I was involved with another married man before (the condo guy mentioned just above).

Did you talk to your therapist about what we've discussed? Yes, we had a few in-depth sessions to the point he told me that I obviously no what I should do (get away), and then said he wanted to make a deal with me. That being that I no longer talk about the married man, because I was going in circles because I knew my own answers. Sometimes clarity can be as confusing as confusion, though. Does that make sense?

Today was our first attempt at backtracking. It was a nice day. No sex, just lunch. But, it was taboo (oooh, no one knew, which is another demon I have lived with for 25 years (being taboo) really can wear on you. But, to try to be positive, he did "behave." No insults, no cavalier and insensitive actions. I feel I put the fear of God in him with my "threats" which I am not proud of, but things were stagnating. I was in daily pain, while he was eating and having his cake. Things had to be shaken up in some way, and at the moment I am too weak to PETV (no Phone, E-mail, Text or Voice mail). So, I took the ammunition I had (I feel a lot of women would have buried him a long time ago) and actually feel a little better. I could feel like he is only being "good" because he is scared, but too bad. I am rotten. I do not know where this will lead. Hopefully, I will find contentment with myself, or find a normal, single person, and be able to say, "bye bye" to this mess. I do not know what I am trying to say, but all I know is he was turning me into a more neurotic mess, and I DID NOT ASK FOR IT. He started it, and I tried to tell him it was not a good idea. I feel he owes me the time and energy for me to get back to square one. Ween off the sex and have him nurture me back to health. Just like I nurtured him back to health by being his warm blanket when he said his life was icy cold. Then, things will be even. I know I sound like a witch, but I have cried many a tear for six months every day, and I deserve some restitution. Up until today when he gave me a good day, you had only heard of a few of his bad antics. I have been given at least one daily zinger for six months. For an extreme example, he told me he was in love with me. Then later retracted it saying he thought he was in love with me but was not. Maybe a person with nerves of steel can accept that, but I am FRAGILE and cannot cope with the slightest of blows, much less something like that. I know I really do not have a question here. I just want someone to vent to and monitor my situation. I will pay.
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
The new bliss lasted two days. Today was supposed to be an afternoon for us. I even asked him in the morning if he had commitments, and he said no. But, he came over and we were having a really good time just talking and laughing. No sex, just really having a fun time with our personalities. Then, a call came. One that comes frequently. It was his daughter wanting him to pick up his grandson. This is the commitment I foresaw, and asked him earlier in the day if he had and he told me no. When, he gets this call, I am instantly put on that back burner even though promised he would spend the time with me. The afternoon was cut short, and he left. This is the crux of it all I think. People with Major Depression already feel worthless and have a feeling of unimportance. I know it is his family, but what am I? If his family was so fulfilling for him, why did he take up with me and get my emotions so out of whack? I did some calculating, and with him giving me an approximate average of 1 hour/day, he gives me 1% of his life. He tells me that he sacrifices for me such as golf with the guys. Instead of putting it as now he has me to hang out with instead of hanging out with a few guys (and believe me, he golfs plenty), wouldn't it be nice if he felt he found something more enjoyable or if not that something else to enjoy? Instead he considers it sacrifice. Another thing is and I have asked him and he gets very mad when I do is, "why can't his wife who lives near the school drive the gorgeous car he has bought for her and pick up the grandson?" He will not answer me this question. In fact, he reprimands me for even asking. I know it is none of my business, but I am so boggled. Why when there is an alternative to him flaking on our afternoon plan together, he chooses to blow me off isntead? He just does not care, and it breaks my heart because I believed in him.


Thank you for that additional info....and for your candor. I almost don't know where to start. I'm going to think on this overnight and type out a response to you tomorrow if that's ok. I appreciate your patience.


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Did you forget or give up on me? I kind of do not blame you, but please at least tell me so. Thank you.


I apologize profusely for overlooking your question. I would not under any circumstances give up on you. I am always here, and if I don't respond within a day, please feel free to drop me another note, we've been having some issues with our email system. I hope you accept my apology.

You are so right, clarity can be just as confusing as confusion because sometimes, although we may see a situation for what it is, there are no clear answers, there will always be, in many cases, shades of gray. The biggest misconception in the world is that mothers are maternal. I've seen enough and experienced enough to know that there's so much more to being a mother than having a child. I've long said that parents should be required to get a license before having a child. The world would be a much better place...not perfect, mind you, but better. We tend to forget that mothers are human, and more than that, women. For a woman to throw of the mores of society and break out of the role that was expected of her in those times took a lot of guts, and a lot of selfishness. She had a responsibility to you and should have fulfilled that responsibility as should your father. That they were both able to be so uncaring and selfish was something they have to live with, and in a sense it marked you for life.

You're ability/desire to be a high achiever with the Navy is not uncommon, for you had something to prove. That you were not a cast off, that you were not expendable. By the same token, the Navy afforded you the 'family' and 'us against the world' attitude that you likely needed to get through that time, and when it was sabotaged and taken away from you, it's not surprising you cracked. Will no one accept you and keep you? Ditto for the fiance who called off the marriage.

Somewhere along the line it occurred to you that if you couldn't have the person in the first place, if they couldn't truly be yours, right from the beginning (because they already belonged to someone else), then they couldn't truly leave you. However your first married man, in fact, did leave you, and not only that he took all you had and left you even worse off than before. Maybe he didn't care if you told his wife or pressed charges for what he did, or maybe he just knew you wouldn't. I'm not really sure what happened during that time, so I am only going on what you've told me.

Fast forward to where we are now. Still a married man, so he never could belong to you, from the start. But wait, there's a difference, he is fearful of being found out. So in a way, you can force him to stay with you, even if just for friendship, even if it means taking him down in a blaze of glory with you. Your anxiety and panic have taken a turn, and if you're going to get hurt this time, it won't be alone.

The problem is, he has this whole other life and this whole other set of responsibilities. People with families tend to have flexible schedules and many times things can change at a moments notice, especially when it comes to small children. I understand about feeling worthless and unimportant, more than you know....but you knew before you got involved that he had a family. Yes..yes...yes....he is dead wrong for getting involved with you, he wasn't using his brain, all he could see was his attraction to you, and he disregarded what was right and did what he wanted to do. However you are both culpable in this situation. The mistress always knows that her schedule can be changed at a moments notice, she always knows there are rules and that she will be marginalized. Still you continued.

The questions are, why if you are feeling unimportant would you put yourself in a position to feel even more unimportant? You want to prove somehow that you can control this feeling or being or unimportance, but it cannot be done this way. It just can't.

As children, we depend on our parents and families to instill our importance to them, and to the world and society. School helps us socialize and build our confidences in most cases, and when it doesn't we have family to fall back on. When that is taken away from us, it can cause a lifetime of damage that can last the rest of our lives.

As adults we seek importance through our jobs and/or our relationships, but in your case the damage was already done, and the failing of your job and relationships only exacerbated the situation. I'm sure you already know this, maybe your therapist talked to you about it, or you've thought about it, but it's real and it's a part of you, but the one thing you have to remember is that it doesn't have to DEFINE you.

Don't accept the term orpXXXXX, XXXXX't embrace it. You are giving your parents too much power when you embrace that label. You are not Mary, the orphan, you are Mary the woman! Do not accept the label failure, because you excelled until selfish, jealous people interfered. You are not Mary the failure, you are Mary the woman! Do not accept the label mistress, for there is someone out there for you, that would be willing to love you the way you need to be loved, that will embrace those things you consider faults and that will want to give you the time and energy you so deserve....however, as long as you stay in this relationship with no future you will forever block the way for someone to come into your life. You are not Mary the mistress, you are Mary the woman.

As such, you are capable of doing anything you want to do. By everything we have talked about I can tell you are a highly intelligent woman, I don't doubt that if you put your mind to it, there's nothing you couldn't accomplish, but it's going to take all of the strength you possess to step out of your place of fear and put one foot in front of the other and move toward a healthier place. A place where it doesn't matter if other people accept you, because the most important acceptance comes from within Mary. If you can look in the mirror and say, 'Mary, you are a smart, beautiful, talented woman, who could do just about anything. I really love you and I will never let you down'....well, that would be a day to reckon with. That would be a day when the world better be on their toes.

The fact is, the conditions that you suffer from are very real, but they are also very tied to your emotions, and people will tell you, "you can't change how you feel", but that's not true. Studies have shown that if you speak it, so can you believe it. You don't need him, you only think you do. In fact, he's already shown you that he doesn't care enough to be what you need him to be. You need to let him go. Don't talk about friendship, because although you enjoy being with him, it's not about friendship, its about control, on his side and yours, and it's not healthy. You know this.

At this very moment, as you are reading this, you can make the decision to take back your life and make changes to be the woman you know you can be. Don't believe that it will happen overnight, of course not, but it can happen. Ask yourself, what would you like to do, what would make you happy? Is there something you always wanted to do, but just didn't think you could? Now is the time to figure out what needs to be done, and do it...step by step. If you accept Mary, and you love Mary, it's going to take time to get to know get to know what she wants and what she's capable of doing, but with acceptance and love, anything is possible.

I certainly welcome your thoughts. Know that I said nothing here with the intention of insulting you or hurting you in any way, and if you think I'm dead wrong, I'll accept that too. Let me know your thoughts.





Customer: replied 9 years ago.
I have mentioned how (doesn't everybody) but I just really cannot stand the contrast between the beginning of a relationship and the being taken for granted that comes rather shortly after. To me that is deception and untrustworthiness displayed on their part. So, out of ugly desperation, but also feeling like, "wait a minute, if he can play so unfair at the BEGINNING, why can't I pull a few tricks out of my hat at this stage?" In know, ugly. But, anyway. So, I have been "forching" him to "love" me by THREATENING to what he feels would ruin his life. This has shaped him up somewhat (of course) but today he slipped up a bit and did refer to me as "black mailing" him. So, like you say, what on Earth am I doing in this relationship where these tactics are having to be played out. Not to toot my horn, but aside from the Depression, I am not bad looking, am pretty intelligent, and have my ducks in a row with life's basics (finances and the like). Why am I not just letting this one go, and moving on? I will tell you why. Whenever I have tried to pull away, he gets in a panic mode, and reels me back in. I did really good for a few days of neglecting his calls, EMs and the like. And, I noticed as would be expected, he was diligently trying to get a hold of me. Somewhere in there I broke down, but it was with the relay that I was avoiding him because he upset me so much. He claims he wants me in his life. But, now we go back to the "C" word. CONVENIENCE. Anyway, the "black mail," by him referring to it today, I realized that his recent more kind and attentive behavior is stemming from that. It is not genuine. And, I am really sick to think so little of myself I have to black mail a guy into "loving" me. But, it is not so much that I am trying to force him to "love" me (I put that in quotes because, though he says it at times, he does not love me), it is more that I feel that the way he treated me at the beginning by deceiving me and ignoring my pleas not to toy with my emotions which at this point have put me in states of ruin, I feel somewhat justified in playing a game of my own. He was quick to pull out all the stops at the beginning to get me to where he wanted me, so now I am pulling out my stops. By the way, I would just like to say, that when he told me that he was falling for me, I told him, "You know what I think would make you feel better right now....You should go to your wife and give her a hug and tell her you love her." He replied, "If I did that she would think I was crazy." He says they do not touch or are intimate. I was trying to get him off my case, and work on his own marriage and family which would later be known to be where his heart truly lived. I add this because if he had just put forth some effort on his marriage when I was so in check that I wanted him to fix his marriage and forget about getting involved with a younger woman, we would not be having these back and forth answer/reply. I am sort of just rambling here. I guess because I am very lost at this point. I have him backed up against a wall, but that is not cool. And, my emotions are completely out of whack. So, I guess it is like you say, I need to find every ounch of strength I have to break away. Trouble there is, for that 1% when I am convenient, he is my "rock." Now, how weird is that? Listen to this, last weekend, I had two dates with men who would be much more normal to be involved with. I think this is typical, but I cancelled because I just did not want to be with anyone except for my married man who I am so comfortable with. Yes, he makes me crazy, but I know him and he knows me better than anybody. That 1% (except for when he shuts down because we are on a topic he does not want to be on) is wonderful. I do enjoy his company and am so comfortable with him. The thought of struggling through dinner with the typical banter of the getting to know someone stage seems more exhausting than this madness. I feel the key is to get comfortable wtih just myself. Depression has a symptom of not enjoying things or having few interests. So, that makes it more difficult. I really do not know what I like to do. Sometimes I just stare at the floor as if paralyzed. I think what I would like you to tell me about is the process of the conquest. I know it, but I guess I want to hear it from your perspective. You can tell that I hate that contrast from beginning to later. I want to understand why they do it. And, why they do not feel bad that they have made all these promises and said all these things, and we are just supposed to accept it as part of the process. I know all is fair in love and war, but there ought to be a law for breaking someone's heart, and the cunning antics they perform in doing so. Like the black mail where the married man's wife, family, reputation, possessions, and all that stuff would become so apalled and jeopardized. He sees real value in that and losing that. But, doesn't my well-being have any value? He has ruined my emotional state which was doing pretty good to stay as even of a keel as I can get before he came along with his promises and ingeniune concern. Is his life more valuable because his wife may get mad or threaten divorce and he would have to pay alimony and not live in his big house with all its possessions; he fact his marriage vows were broken will be revealed; his daughter, grandson, and siblings will be upset and ashamed of him; he will be exposed as the fraud he is instead of being able to conceal it; his work colleagues will be dissappointed in him; and most importantly to him his reputation would be ruined. All that is still in tact, but I am in ruin. And, I have been telling him for six months that I am falling apart and in constant despair, but he does not want to mend it. To him, there is no dollar value on it. Or, in his mind, I am a loser who has nothing to lose. Whereas, he has so much to lose, so "don't him up." But, doesn't the heart and mind have value? And, like I have said before, if these people in his life would be so disappointed with him, aside from his wife who would feel betrayed, but like his siblings, if I make him happy why should their judgement be more important than his happiness? Obviously, it is more important to him than me.
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Did I write too much?

Hello Mary,

No, not at all. I'm responding now.


Thanks for that additional info Mary. I must say that I was a little disappointed that your whole response focused so much on him. You are so caught up and intently focused on him, even though you know the answers and can talk about what you know you need to do. You are right, it is deceptiveness, untrustworthiness...all of that. But what we have to understand is that those traits are not the traits of a friend. This will not be the first time in history that a man said what he needed to say to get what he wants, just like it's not uncommon for a woman to feel like she wants to strike back. The issue is stooping to his level. Because he is a disturbed person doesn't mean that you have to join him....the issue becomes one of control, he knew he shouldn't have gotten involved but he did, then he pulled his little tricks, and you got angry and hurt, but you stuck with it. Sure you're threatening him now, but he doesn't want to end it because it's a whole thrill for him, the thrill of deceit, the thrill of almost getting caught, the thrill of no one else knowing, the thrill of the threats, the thrill of you leaving him, the thrill of you ignoring him....its all high drama. In a sense, he's no better that the guy peeping through a hole into the girls washroom, because even your pain and frustration cold be turning him on. It's up to you to take a step up onto the moral high ground....unless...just maybe....the thrill is there for you too?

You say you know him, and that he knows you, but that's just not true....If he knew you, he would have known that he should have been honest with you, that he should have been a friend to you and honored that friendship...if you knew him, you would have known that he was not a real friend to you, that he is not being the man he should be for his family and himself. There's not a guarantee that if his family finds out they will desert him or be disappointed in him. The fact is, he has lied about so much, how can you know what is truth and what is not. How do you know he's never cheated before? How do you know he's not sleeping with his wife? loving his wife? That she is totally clueless about how he feels? You don't. You only know what he's told you. It really hurts to find yourself in such a 'typical' situation, but it's something that you know has to be looked at and addressed.

Conquest...I think in many people it's not just a sexual thing, people experience in many many other aspects or their lives. Work, love, sex, pets, assignments, attaining things, money, hobbies....we all want to do well, we all want to succeed at what we do, and many of us desire to conquer things that we know we cannot of should not have. Some of us give into this desire, some of us follow our better judgment. You knew what you wanted from wanted the friendship and you didn't want him to hurt you. Yet you slept with him, and that brought the relationship to another level. There's a whole other range of emotions that come into play once you have sex with someone, in a sense all bets are off.

You say that he has ruined your emotional state, but do you honestly believe you gave him that much control over you? If so, do you think you should have? After all you've been through, why would you trust your emotional state to someone you barely knew? Do you really believe you have less value simply if he thinks you do?


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
I know I need to focus on myself. I need to figure out, though Depression makes his tough, what I can enjoy without him (since he brings me mostly heartache). This is tough because as you know a symptom of Depression is inability to enjoy life. It is hard to think of "fun" things to do. This is where a Life Coach could come in handy. We could turn away from the married man, and focus on me. Figuring out what I enjoy.

What do you do now?

What do you do on a typical weekday?

What do you do on a typical weekend?

Do you have any activities that you like?

Is there a job you would like or a business you would like?

Do you volunteer?


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
What do you do now? Not much. Sorry but that is the answer. Let me try harder. I enjoy helping people, but that can carry over into being used. I like to make the little 10-year-old girl I live with laugh. I like to help her with her homework. I like dogs. I like walking, but am agoraphobic so that is tough. I like to look pretty and thin. I like watching movies I have seen before and liked. I like going to Barnes & Nobel when I can bring myself to go out. I like the company of nice people. I like typing. I like learning. I would like to write a book about my torrid life with a good ending with a good message. I would like to take a class, but worry about the phobia. I like to have my mind on positive things. I want to get closer to God.

What do you do on a typical weekday? Try to get my things in order. My room is usually in disarray. I will almost get it together, then go to bed, and it is there again when I wake up. I need structure and a schedule.

What do you do on a typical weekend? Nothing. Mope about the married man, not being able to contact me because it is taboo time. Has to end. Do not like outdoor activities.

Do you have any activities that you like? Used to like skiing. Could like walking, but the phobia. Sometimes, I walk, and enjoy it, and it is good for my mind and body. I am a little vain in wanting to be pretty and have a great body. It is important to me. So little makes me feel good, so even though that may seem shallow, if it makes me have moments of feeling good I think it is a good thing.

Is there a job you would like or a business you would like? I would like to volunteer my clerical and computer skills. I cannot handle an actual job (that comes from my doctor assessment at this time). My interests though are legal, more computer skills, writing, language, psychology.

Do you volunteer? I did bring myself to volunteer for the cancer society giving rides to patients to their appointments. It was tough with the Agoraphobia, but got the calling from the Holy Spirit to do it, so would force myself. Then, after a few months, I was called into the center. A man (and I know who it was though they would not reveal, but know the encounter) had complained that I was a "flirt." What had happened is that I am to EVERYONE a very nice person. Friendly and smily. Especially, someone who is sick. But, basically everyone. This man took that as me having an interest in him. Prior to me realizing this, he asked me into his apartment for coffee. I know these people are lonely and sad, so I obliged. I got into his apartment, and he attacked me, grabbing and kissing me. I resisted. He was "rebuffed." I could tell he was insulted. I told him he was a nice man, but that is not what I meant with my friendliness. He obviously then to get back at me, called the center and said I was a flirt. This got me so demoralized (I have poor coping skills, medically documented). They did not "fire" me from a volunteer position. But, told me to tone down my friendliness. I just felt like I did not need it and quit. It was costing me gas anyway. I have not missed it, and feel as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, satisfied Him with the time I did put in. I did help a lot of people, and hate to say this one bad apple spoiled it for the whole batch, but just was too demoralized feeling no good deed goes unpunished. I then transferred my energies of volunteering to the police department. I filled out a stack of forms an inch thick. In the end, I was rejected. More demoralization. Today, I called a friend who is trying to upstart a business, to see if he needs any typing done. That is where my volunteer work stands. All this is always subject to my Agoraphobia. Which has gotten worse with the married man. Ironically, he is the only one I feel absolutely comfortable going outside with. That has to change. I had become strong before him, and the condition was 70% under control. I was able to do my walks. Today, for example, it is 3:35 p.m., and though I have things to do, keep stalling. My Agoraphobia has a "stipulation" to it that is rather contrary. I feel more comfortable under the cloak of darkness.

It is as if I need a list of things that people do, and I need to check off what interests me, because I just cannot think of things.

On another note which should maybe be split into a new question, I made up this question:

What are the different forms of love? How do they differ? Is one more important than the other?


Your spouse:

Your spouse when you married them:

Your spouse later in the marriage:

Your parents:

Your kids:

Your grandkids:

Your siblings:

Your extended family (cousins, aunts, nephews…):

Your step mother/father:

Your step sisters/brothers:

Your teacher:

A crush:

Puppy love:

Unrequited love:

People you care about:

Your best friend:

Your good friends:

Friends of the opposite sex:

Your lover if you are married to another:

Your lover if you are single:

The person you are cheating with:

"Friends with benefits:"


Your acquaintances:

Unobtainable people (celebrities, politicians, musicians, etc.):

Love/hate relationships (interesting):



Your ex:

Other kinds:

I would like to work on this. Maybe that is an interest of mine. Maybe I just answered my own question. But, I can have my opinions, but I would like to have the input of others. Though I am accepting so you will get paid, please do not consider us closed out. Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX You are a God send.

Hi Mary,

We don't have to split it into another question unless you want to. I am stepping away for a few, but I am going to go over everything you wrote and respond, along with my thoughts on your list.


You said you live with a 10 year old girl? Do you have a roommate?

I agree that helping people can turn into getting used. If you decide to volunteer, it should be spelled out very clearly what you are capable of doing and if you are asked to do more and can't you should feel no guilt for saying no.

You mentioned you like looking pretty and mentioned thin before, do you have any issues with weight? It is important that you feel good about yourself, and if a walk once in a while makes you feel that, it's a very good thing. I think writing a book is a good thing, and just writing more in general is good. I think a blog would be a good thing for you, as a way to start about writing your book and maybe get feedback on some of your writing.

I'm sorry about what happened with the cancer are right, one bad apple spoiled it for everyone. You have to remember that there are bad people in all walks of life, you cannot avoid them completely, especially if you are a nice person, but you can learn to recognize the signs and learn how to deal with them in a healthy way.

When you are more comfortable you will find something else you can volunteer for, I'm sure of it. I will try to come up with a list of things people can do to volunteer and you can see if there's anything there that interests you.


As for your question - What are the different forms of love? How do they differ? Is one more important than the other?

God: Depending on your religion or beliefs, some would say that you should love God above all else. I believe that your relationship with God is your own.

Your spouse/Your spouse when you married them/Your spouse later in the marriage:
A crush/ puppy love

I think that when you first meet someone you are attracted to, you become "infatuated" with them. This is the beginning, immature phase of "real love". You wonder about their thoughts, feelings, doings, family, past, etc. We think about them all the time and we want to interact with them as much as possible. During this time it is not uncommon to want to spend every waking moment with this person, talk on the phone for hours on end, and feel like you have everything in common with them. They are exactly like you, you like all the same things, everything they do has the potential to make you happy.

Infatuation is really about self gratification, it is not a giving love.

After a while these feelings of infatuation may start to wear off, as you get to know the person better and are confronted with their flaws and inadequacies you may start to feel that maybe you don't have as much in common as you thought.

This is where the possibility of real love can come in. When you can face your mates flaws and inadequacies, and still love them in spite of, and sometimes even for it!

However "real love" goes even deeper than that. Real love means being yourself, in all of your glory, good and/or bad and feeling confident that this person will accept you regardless. Real love is knowing you can trust this person and that they can trust you, and although it is possible to hurt one another it is avoided at all cost. Sharing, understanding and communication are a part of your daily life while childish fantasy or unreasonable expectations are let go. Real love gives you a feeling of security and safety. It is based on mutual respect, mutual admiration, and a real concern for the other's well being. Real love is not in what you say, but in everything you do, it is a caring love.

It is said that the person who "infatuates" us, is the last thing that we consciously want. We are infatuated with our "Imago", an unconscious image of the person our childhood programmed us to become infatuated with.

We actually become infatuated with people who have some of the traits that we wouldn't like to find in ourselves. For example, when we tell someone "you're just like my father/mother" we are saying we see the traits that we don't want to admit we may have inherited. When we choose those traits in a mate, we can feel whole without having to take responsibility for that aspect of ourselves. We are not in love with that person, we are in love with the missing part of ourselves.

Real love on the other hand allows for stands the test of time, it withstands hardship, it sticks around.

I don't believe it's possible to know if what you share with someone is "real love" until you have spent time with them, gone through life changes with them, shared and cared and hurt with them. Knowing that there will be pain and challenges and still exhibiting a willingness to love...despite.

Your parents: is a connected love. Can sometimes be a resentful love, it all depends on the relationship you have with them

Your kids: very similar to the parental love, only you now can realize why your parents did many of the things they did, and you grow in that understanding. It can become a resentful love, depending on the situation

Your grandkids: many people find a individual type of love and joy in their grandchildren that goes beyond anything they ever felt, even for their own children. Again, its based on circumstances

Your siblings: this type of relationship can run the gamut from an incredible love to resentment, competition and even hate depending on the circumstances

Your extended family (cousins, aunts, nephews...): all feelings based on relationships, a nephew and an aunt could share an unusually close relationship, or cousins, or an uncle and a nephew or aunt and niece, etc.

Your step mother/father....Your step sisters/brothers: depending on the relationship, these can be as close as if they were the real parent

Your teacher: admiration, that can sometimes grow into a familial or emotional love

Unrequited love: it can sometimes be difficult to separate real love from unrequited love because so many people want what they can't have. They have to figure out if what they are feeling is real or is it just stubbornness because they cannot have what they want

People you care about:/Your good friends: can run from shallow, hello/goodbye types of relationships, and some can develop into meaningful lifelong dedicated friendships.

Your best friend: can sometimes come to mean more to you than family, spouse, children. At the very least they can be very meaningful loves that can impact many aspects of your life

Friends of the opposite sex: many believe its not possible to have true friends of the opposite sex. Some say it's because a man would not be friends with a woman he wouldn't sleep with. I don't know if that's totally true, but I do feel that it's somewhat true in many cases.

Your lover if you are married to another: it depends on the situation. Sometimes there are people who are really in bad marriages, other times people just want to have their cake and eat it to. I find if the married person is truly in love with the lover, the will do everything in their power to get out of the marriage regardless of consequence...except maybe when there are young children involved.

I will finish the others tomorrow. Let me know what your thoughts are so far if you read this before I get back.


Your lover if you are married to another: in cases like this you have to be careful that it is really love you feel and not the excitement of doing something taboo. Also that it doesn't become a challenge to see who will get the person.

Your lover if you are single: one of the most sought loves in that it can be your soul mate, can be a long lasting love that moves into matrimony, but when it turns bad can go to the lowest depths

The person you are cheating with: similar to the lover if you are married to another. Being aware of whether or not it's really love or the excitement of the taboo

"Friends with benefits": a relationship based on sex, it's already known from the beginning that there are no ties, no emotions, no commitments...yet time and time again, people say they won't develop feelings, and then they do. Usually its one sided and causes serious problems.

Yourself: If you cannot learn to love yourself, you cant ever truly love anyone else

Your acquaintances: sort of fulfill 'fast food' desires. You can have a quick chat at lunch, in the elevator, drinks after work, talk at the mailbox. Over times these relationships can develop into real friendships.

Unobtainable people (celebrities, politicians, musicians, etc.): this was a good one. We admire these people because they have accomplishments that we all wish we could have. Most of the time our feelings towards these people range from affection, lust, envy, coveting....nd sometimes obsession. Musicians, because they write music and lyrics can be especially attractive to people as their work is wide reaching and can be interpreted many different ways by many different people.

Love/hate relationships (interesting): As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts....many times we hate people because we see something in them that is in ourselves. It is said that hate and love are two sides of the same coin, although in certain situations it's hard to see that

Codependency: controlling, giving pity, making excuses, basically enabling

Enabling: rescuing, helping, making excuses

Your ex: depending on the individual and the circumstances of the break up, some people close off their exes when they break up. They cannot remain friends or talk to their exes. Some don't see the point, some can't take a chance of getting re involved. Others stay in touch with their exes, becoming, after the break up, what they never could during the relationship. Some even get back into a relationship years later with an even stronger love.


I'd like to know what you think of my interpretations, and if you have any different or additional ones? When we finish this, I have some questions I am going to post for you.


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
I think you know why I got interested in studying this. The MM (married man) says he loves me (yes, I do have a lot of scar tissue building up from all this) right below his family (meaning anyone related by blood, and probably his wife, but maybe not?). In my world, which does not mean it has to be his world and definitely is not, I love people equally. It is kind of strange but I compare it to a firing squad. If everyone I loved were lined up and I had to shoot them based on the one less loved first, I would not be able to choose. Like I say kind of strange. Yes, I am still dabbling in this situation. This weekend has probably been my healthiest in that I have accepted his evening and weekend taboo situation, and I better start living life for me. It is tough with Depression, but I better try. Because, this situation is not going to change. You can think it is at the beginning, but after several months of the same old agony, you have to accept it will not change. I still want to be with him, but am not going to sulk if I cannot. I liked your answers to my query. That must have been a lot of work. And, yes, all of them can have variances, except loving yourself I believe. And, that is the one I have been neglecting in all this. I have been loving him so much, that I have been selling myself short. I have a ways to go, but I recognize and guess I always have, the disrespect I must display for myself. Putting up with the 1% and all. I am now going to change that to, "He is my friend 1% of the time." Done deal. The rest of the time I fill what the other things I can think of that make me happy. Something may come along that, let's turn it around, I no longer have 1% of my time for him. I hate to play games, really, but those times when I can refrain from being his beck and call girl (at his convenience) he does go a little crazy. Poor baby. Sorry, it sounds like I find pleasure in that, but maybe it is all a part of this kind of relationship, where I finally am not the only one feeling pain. I do not like to be that kind of person, and that is why I am looking outside my old box. Apathy is my quest.
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
I had a pretty strong Saturday as you can see my writing was pretty healthy. Then, I got on the Instant Message with him his morning (Sunday), and asked him what his plans for the week were. He mentioned nothing about me. It set me off. I want out. I want out so much, but am so stuck. Please help me. I want to make it so I WILL IGNORE HIM. And, if it makes him crazy, I WON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT BECAUSE I HOPE IT DOES, AND I DON'T CARE. He has put me through so much incredible stress and disrespect that he does not deserve to be cared about. He is the classic case of taking a younger woman and seducing her at his convenience, then throwing her away. Please help me step out of this. One thing is my Depression. It gets such a hold on me. Today, I knew he would not be in my life being it a Sunday, so I was trying to do what I mentioned before. I made plans to go to church, and then to lunch with a nice couple I know from church. After his IMing with the entries of how he was just going to work, and the constant instilling in me that he needed to attend to his family (what I told him in the first place!), I immediately went down. Never combed my hair, never got dressed, cancelled my church and lunch, and laid in bed all day. If sleep became me once in awhile, it was a God send from the tortured mind I constantly endure. Please help me P E T V I. No phone, e-mails, texts, voice mails, or IMs. P E T V I. I made that silly thing up. I am going to try harder tomorrow. I can be better, but these blows and other things make me so fatigued. I can make a plan, but my fatigue makes me go down. That is one thing he was helping me with. Because I would look forward to seeing him and felt so comfortable with him, I had more energy. But, that time has to pass. I need to find more energizing things to do. Think I mentioned one symptom of Depression is inability to enjoy life. You cannot think of anything to do. Truly, one thing you like to do is SLEEP. And, I did that for two years up until April 2007. I got fat, developed some arthritis in my neck, my relatives would sit and talk about me while I was laying there saying, "she never does anything, she has no interests." Finally, I got myself up, and began walking and within two months was up to five miles a day. I lost 25 pounds. Now, I never walk. And, really notice it. I feel fatter, I have less energy, my mind just feels not healthy. When I was "literally" laying in bed for two years, I was ready to die. I felt like I was 44 years old, and had lived enough life, I just wanted to die there. I never thought I would get up. But, I did and now this. My therapist who I had to cancel last week because I was too distraught over this guy (Catch 22), and who also has had the recent death of his wife so he is taking very few appointments, anyway, asked me a very good question, "Was there a man in your life when you got yourself out of bed?" Answer, "no. Well, Jesus." The blow I took from the cancer society in conjunction with getting involved with this married man has damaged me more than I realize. Or, maybe I do realize, but do not know what to do about it. Please help me. What things can I do?

Apathy towards him I hope. :0) I think in my case, there is a difference in the way I love people, not that I could choose someone to shoot first (lol), but I do love differently in that I have different kinds of love, I don't think I've ever loved anyone in the world like I fell in love with my daughter when she was born. I got your second response pretty much while I was responding to the first. Can I ask you, when did he become more important than you? While he has his priorities, where are yours? Does he deserve to be a priority? Going to church and having lunch with your friends would have gone a long way towards making you feel better.....I'm sorry you did not do that. You're going to have to figure out one step at a time, ways of putting yourself back out into the world. I don't want you to get overly involved with any one particular thing, but I do want you to think of something you wouldn't mind doing for an hour or two a day. Maybe you can give me some ideas or if you give me your city, I may be able to give you some ideas. I think I have an answer to your PETVI, but I don't think you would be interested. Change your phone number and email. Forcefully remove him from your this point, you're both in the water, and he's got his arm around your you push away and possibly swim to safety, or do you drown with him? Because you know....if you leave, he will do this with someone else...eventually he will get caught, his world will come tumbling down and there's no telling how or if he will emerge from the rubble. You on the other hand have the blessing of foresight. He's already shown you that he is apathetic towards you, it's up to you to decide whether or not to return the favor. You've got so much promise, and my fear is that 5 years down the line you start beating up on yourself (emotionally) for even allowing him to have this type of wasteful impact on your life. He's a coward. He knew what the issues were because you told him what the issues were, he just didn't care, and that's sad. It's sad because he's going to lose out on someone who really cared for him, and who (in my opinion) is genuinely interesting, funny and has a lot to offer.


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
That is very precious about your feelings toward your daughter. I do not have children, but still can imagine that bonding feeling. I mean she is such a part of you. You carried her. From that moment she was a fetus, you had to take care of her. It is now Monday, and of course, the 9:07 a.m. CONVENIENT time call came in to have coffee. Yesterday, I sent him an e-mail that read, "Do not call me tomorrow at 9:00 when it becomes convenient. I cringe when they come in. Those calls are done in secrecy and are disrespectful to me. They prove you have such disregard for me..." Yet, he did it anyway. I did not answer. It does just instill the CONVENIENCE situation, that maybe he cannot help, but I TOLD HIM IN THE BEGINNING, "do not involve me, I am fragile!" He is such a successful and highly educated man. But, yet, even so, I guess they can either be real ignorant, or perhaps just CONVENIENTLY ignorant. I, as a disabled person, knew the complications of the situation, and warned a person I looked up to and held at a higher standard. But, he wanted to dive in anyway. And, I dove right along with him. Not to always blame him, but I did try to send him away when my feelings were in check. It is just that his were that of a 16-year-old, and he wanted his way! To answer your questions: 1. Can I ask you, when did he become more important than you? Right away but not in the form of a "boyfriend" or to be the other woman. He would be a good friend, but I let that slip by. That is too bad. 2. While he has his priorities, where are yours? Since I do not have the family infrastructure he does, nor work I do not have many priorities, and he became it. Does he deserve to be a priority? No. But, the mind is crazy, and at times he is all I can think about. And, what is really crazy, is that when I think about him, it is not nice things, it is things like how much he has changed, and how mad at him I am about it, and how cruel I think he is. But, he does not deserve to be a priority. I need to shift somehow like I said last entry, to myself, where I begin walking and going to church again. And, trying to think of things to do that take my mind of him. I do want him to remember me in a nice way, and it is getting uglier all the time. As they say in Hollywood, "leave them wanting more." I do not kmow. This is soooooooooo hard.
Customer: replied 9 years ago.
I just wrote, but his calls and IMs keep coming in. I am holding off on responding. We got together in September, and by October he began to come out of his 16-year-old infatuation, and show his true colors. I repeat myself a lot, so please forgive me. But, since October I have been beating my head against a wall trying to get through to him. Taking a call now, or answering an IM seems futile. What more is there to say? He does not get it, never will. Another repeat and this is the big toughy - P E T V I. I have heard this over my lifetime, let him know what life is like without you. Here is my repeat - I have tried everything but one thing - P E T V I. That means I have tried everything but go without him for a spell. That means on my terms. I have gone without him because I am not convenient for him so he ignores me. But, I have never tried to go without him on my terms. Try to instill in my mind that he is not convenient for me. Another repeat - I do want him as a friend. He sounds like the devil and that is because I allow him to be. I may have mentioned I love Seinfeld. Who doesn't. Well, there are those. But anyway, there is the premise that Jerry and Elaine used to date and are now just friends. I would love that with this guy. It is rare in real life that this happens and that is TV. But, I think that is the best spot for us. But, I think it will require some separation for these wounds of mine and his mindset about me to go away. If he only wanted me for sex, then that is that. I am not that kind of girl. That is being an unpaid hooker. And, if that is what he was looking to use me for, I will not have me in his life. But, at the moment it is really hard to ignore his callings. But, I am going to, because like I said (repeat, repeat) I have said it all for eight months, and the only thing I have not tried is what is so difficult right now. But, maybe it gets easier. I need him to know life without me. Maybe he will like it better, because I know he stresses about it. So, that will be that. Please tell me, "Mary, No P E T V I! Mary, No P E T V I!" I have never gone more than 24 hours on my terms. Let's start with that starting now 11:15 a.m. Monday. Can I make it? It is like weening. Challenge me to go until 12:15 p.m. Tuesday. Sounds weird. If you have a better idea, do not hold back. Thank you.

Hello Mary,

I don't think it sounds weird at all. Can you go for 24 hrs? Does it mean turning the phone off completely, blocking him off your im for the day? If you sit and watch the IM's and calls come in, it will be harder and harder to avoid them. Turn off the phone, and turn off the computer, or at the very least closing the IM program.

What can you do today, can you go out and see something you've always wanted to see in your city? Can we do some research on volunteer opportunities in your area? Can you start creating your blog today? Turn your music up, turn the phone off and shut down your IM. What kind of music do you like? What can you put on and dance around like a complete fool for about an hour and then either go out and get lunch, or start a blog, or create a myspace. Let me know. I'm here...I;ll be here all day and most of the night. We can do this! :)

Customer: replied 9 years ago.
I don't think it sounds weird at all.
Thank you
Can you go for 24 hrs?
It will be hard in that another he is on my IM screen asking "are you there?" and has called three times. But, we "know the animal" as my family has made that term up. Right now, I am being a challenge. Can he get me to respond within his CONVENIENCE time? Because, believe me, these IMs and calls will cease come 3:00 p.m. this afternoon. To answer your question, I am going to do it with one exception. I love dogs, and his daughter rescues dogs. She has six on the block right now. I have received a couple calls based on flyers I made to help the project. I will in the interest and love of animals relay these numbers. It is not a manipulation tactic.
Does it mean turning the phone off completely,
I will if I need to, but have ignored his ID three times.
blocking him off your im for the day?
He is on my screen like I said saying, "are you there? Am ignoring.
If you sit and watch the IM's and calls come in, it will be harder and harder to avoid them. Turn off the phone, and turn off the computer, or at the very least closing the IM program.

What can you do today, can you go out and see something you've always wanted to see in your city?
I would love to get my act together and drive an hour to Burbank to see The Craig Ferguson Show. I have a free ticket with a pass to the front of the line. I have been wanting to go see him (he is my favorite comedian) since I fell in love (that celebrity kind of love) with him and since I have moved to California where he is only an hour.

Can we do some research on volunteer opportunities in your area?
This does cross my mind. I have had a few rejections as you know, but should not allow my Depression to intervene and crawl in a whole.   Will work on that.
Can you start creating your blog today?
I would love to, but do not know how. Can you tell me easily, or is that out of your scope here. I can research it out, I guess.
Turn your music up, turn the phone off and shut down your IM.
Like music, and am doing good ignoring phone and IM. But, get this, I feel a little bad for him, but that I have to get over. Fast!
What kind of music do you like?
All kinds. Even have a keyboard, and if I would just pursue it would love to take a few lessons to get my piano skills back.
What can you put on and dance around like a complete fool for about an hour and then either go out and get lunch, or start a blog, or create a myspace.
I do dance sometimes, and the people I live with pretty much accept me. They like that I am a little goofy (not the mentally ill part, they accept that because Depression does not really hurt others around you). Blog? Yes, see above.
MySpace? Yes, have an account, but do not know how to use. Why? Probably because I research why does the MM treat me so weird, instead of researching how to use my computer.
Let me know. I'm here...I;ll be here all day and most of the night. We can do this! :) OK. It is going to happen. Except for the puppies. But, that will be a one-way relay of information, with the sole purpose of caring about animals so much.

Are you sending the dog info to him or his daughter?


Why? Probably because I research why does the MM treat me so weird, instead of researching how to use my computer.

ok, that cracked me up. lol

The myspace is pretty easy, it gets easier and easier to use with time and practice. As for the blog, I use its very easy to use and pretty much explains everything step by step. You can make it private or public. I always recommend public because you can get feedback from many people. In order to get people to visit your blog, it's always nice to read other peoples blogs and leave comments for them and they will come back and read your blog. It's a very helpful and in my opinion healthy way to get out emotions and feelings on a daily basis. Check out the site, and let me know what you think about it. If you need help I will find out from admin if they will allow me to help you set it up.


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
To him, and I just did. Very matter of fact. I am taboo (which he ALWAYS says he is going to change) with his daughter. ALWAYS tells me he wants me in his infrastructure. I know I will never be his wife, but this talk about infrastructure has gone on for the six-eight months, and is comparative to a guy who always says he is going to leave his wife, and strings a girl along. Anyway, in response to my matter of fact e-mail about the pups, he wants me to open an e-mail about the pups..........AAARGHHHH! Right as I am writing this I am into it with him. This may sound dumb, but he is referring to me as his "bud." You do not tell a girl you have slept with that she is your bud. The guys he golfs with are his buds. So, I get upset and say so, and he does the pardon me, the F$*#(%Ting, "don't go there." I am plummetting just like yesterday. This is killing me. Am I frustrating you? If you were here you would probably strangle me.

Hmm, maybe sit you in the corner and turn off your computer. :) He calls you bud to keep you in your place. You're right to compare it to the guy who strings the girl along, because that's exactly what he's doing. Giving you just enough to keep you happy for the moment. Tying you to him with invisible little strings like this thing with his daughter.


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Last night, I was told that he had trouble sleeping the night before. That his chest was beating through his t-shirt, and he could hardly breathe. This has been common for me for six months. Anyway, he came to the conclusion (I have said he is schrewd haven't I?) that I am no longer the girl he fell in love with; hence, he as good reason not to be in love with me anymore. I did not think on my feet very well unfortunately. I should have asked him how I have changed. Instead I started crying like an idiot. He did say however that he wants me in his life, I have changed his life, he still wants to have sex with me, he considers me his best friend, he will never abandon me, and the like. So, today began my first day of giving him life without this horrible girl I have become to see how he feels, and how I feel. If after the end of a month, he likes me not being in his life. So be it. If he misses me, so be it. He needs to find out. He has been treating me with such cruelty, and last night was the last straw. I went today without contacting him. He tried me a couple of times, but not very diligently. I am getting the throw away. Plus, he had a lot of his own infrastructure to keep his mind occupied. The good thing is I really did not feel that bad. I did not cry. I hope that continues. I thought of something funny to write to him about, and wrote the e-mail, but saved it as a draft for the end of the month. I will just journal and do things that way. He never really reads or listens to what I have been saying for six months, so why send the stuff. Just write it out, and save it as a draft, mostly for my own keeping. But, this may get hard and I will need encouragement.

Hello Mary,

For some reason I was thinking about you all day yesterday and had planned on writing you a note today, but you beat me to it. We're not really allowed to respond unless the customer responds, but I was concerned about you.

Do you think you have changed since you met him? If so, why or why not?

He still wants you in his life? He still wants to have sex with you? Did he really say that? He is really determined to keep you in your place. At first it was just backing off, now he's simply flat out saying he doesn't love you but wants to have sex with you still? I agree, thats unusually cruel. You've got to find the strength to move away from this person as he is not doing anything to make your life better. You need to meet someone new, or meet new people, anything to get him out of your system. Most of all you need to focus on yourself. Set some type of goal for yourself and focus on that. You can do anything you put your mind to.


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
He is just a cold person. I did mention Unconditional Love, and he claimed he did not know what that was. If I have changed, it is from the neurosis I have developed from the constant blows from him. I have changed because as stated a million times before, if I go outside the charming, witty, sexy, funny and cute box he has for me, with things like emotions. He was on his best behavior at the beginning, so I had not reason to express "negative" emotions. Just the positive charm, wit, fun, cute and sexy emotions. It is a three-day weekend, so no matter what, there will be no contact. I know I need to rid myself of him. I really wish I could just cold turkey him.

Hi Mary,

You know something...I never saw your last response, I apologize for that, I would have never left you hanging like that. How are you doing now? Are you still in contact with him?


Customer: replied 9 years ago.
Hi, again. Still struggling as you might expect. I just cannot let go. But, I have to. I have noticed that (and this I am sure is the wrong thing to say) but I tell him that I am so used to him hurting me, that I am getting scar tissue, and it does not hurt so bad anymore. He then seems to rack his brain and come up with something to hurt me. I have tried very logical and rational approaches to him. I feel disrespected, and asked him as advised by you or someone, "what type of woman do you respect?" He completely ignored me. I asked him again, and he said he would talk about it another time. This usually means he wants to ponder it, then come up with a zinger that will hurt me. Why do I keep contact with him? Because I am insane. I am in that insane state of mind where I know if there is contact it is bound for heartache, but I still try. 99% of the time, he says something hurtful. Am I really that desperate that I cling to 1% of happiness? Everyone says, "you have to be strong." That is just not working. There is not much more you can say. Maybe I asked before, but if you can tell me once again, why do guys like to conquer women, come on so strong when the girl's emotions are all in check but he wants her to get all gaga over him because at that time he is gaga for her, then once she is gaga, it entirely reverses where his emotions go back into check, and she is left in pieces. I guess we all want to be the one that comes out on top or something. You feel like you want some sort of justice. So, you are told, find someone new, or the best revenge is living well. Well, sometimes there is not someone new waiting there. And, you are too tattered and torn to live well. After someone has tormented you for nearly a year (yes, I am responsible, too, but he wanted and started it...I WAS FINE), why is it not OK to tell his wife or ask for severance pay? I know all is fair in love and war, but there should be laws. But there are not, so it is not illegal to tell his wife. Not very graceful, but he would feel pain. He has gotten what he wants all his life. I wish a Knight In Shining Armor would come along, and just eliminate this man from my whole thinking and being. That would be perfect. I could go on and on but why don't you rebuttle for awhile.
Hello Mary

I'm glad to hear from you although not necessarily under these circumstances.

I think we did talk about that before...the conquest. Some men are so used to getting what they want that they will do anything when they come across someone or something that doesn't fall down at their feet. For a woman it might be like that gorgeous pair of shoes you saw in the store....they may cost 30 times more than what you would normally pay for a pair of shoes, and just by looking at them you can almost tell they will be uncomfortable, but for some reason, you just have to have them. So you finally save up the money to get them, and all of your friends are so jealous and people admire them, but sure enough, they hurt your feet and eventually the newness wears off and they wind up in the closet with the rest of your (cheaper) shoes.

Now I know it's unfair to compare a woman to a pair of shoes, but I'm not too sure that a man's brain isn't thinking much different at the time. It's something he sees and desires, and no matter what the cost, he has to have it, so he puts in the time to get what he wants but once the newness wears off and reality hits, he realizes that it might be more trouble than it's worth....or just that things might not be as comfortable as they first looked. Sadly, some men view women this way....objectifying them like something to own and then toss aside when they are done.

Your best bet is to be rid of him completely, only then will you get any peace. As long as you stay involved with him and play his games, then he will stick around because even the anger, even the aggravation, even the threat that you might tell his wife is exciting to him, you are in essence giving him everything he wants, while you get nothing. Cut the pipeline, cut the access, disown him completely and walk away and he will be the loser in the end, while you may not have a white knight on standby (who does?) and feel like your life would be in tatters, it would get better in time, it always does, that is the nature of time. The longer you stay the harder it is to back out and the more it seems like you enjoy the insanity along with him.

I can't tell you to tell his wife, I can't give you that type of have to decide if she deserves to be hurt because you're hurt when she had nothing to do with any of this. Of course you can justify it by saying she 'needs' to know because she's being hurt, but is that really your place? Ultimately you have to do what you have to were not 'fine' when he came along because if you were you would have never gotten involved with a married man in the first place, no matter how compelling he was. There's a part of you that gets something out of this too, even if it's just the waiting to see who 'wins'. The sad thing is that neither of you will win because so many other people are bound to get hurt behind this, and he's already shown you that he has not one bit of caring for you, he treats you like a cat treats a mouse, giving you just enough air to breath and then swatting you down again. The only way Mary wins is to get rid of the loser and take back her life, tattered or not.

Of course I welcome your thoughts.