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AssuredElectrical, Electrician
Category: Pool and Spa
Satisfied Customers: 4241
Experience:  38 years electrical experience in residential, commercial, industrial. Installation of swimming pools, spa tubs, hot tubs too.
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I have a brand new hot tub and it was wired in yesterdday.

Customer Question

I have a brand new hot tub and it was wired in yesterdday. The problem that we are having is the outdoor 50A GFI and the indoor 50A Circuit breaker trip immediately after turning them on. We have double and triple checked all of the wiring, the only thing that we can see is that on the house 50A side is that in the manual it shows the Neutral and Ground going to separate busbars whereas in my case i do not have separate buss bars so they are going to the same
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Pool and Spa
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 2 years ago.
Welcome. My name is ***** ***** would be glad to assist. Sorry to hear on the troubles, lets see if we can get the situation resolved and operating.First, need some details.1. How are the wires run form the main panel breaker to the GFCI disconnect outside?Wire connections and colors needed.2. If the GFCI breaker is OFF, does the inside 50 amp still trip?3. How are the wires run form the GFCI breaker to the Sap connections??Wire connections and colors needed. Let me know and we can continue,Thanks
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The in the house 50A does not trip if the outdoor GFI is off. The cable that we used numerical instead of colors. So at the House panel we have Number 1 and Two going to the 50A Breaker and 3 (Neutral) and Ground going to the ground/neutral bar. On the Outdoor GFCI from the house we have the Ground going to the Ground bar, Number 3 (neutral) going to its bar and number one and two going to the breaker feed. from the Hot Tub to the GFCI we have Numbers one, two and three going to their spots on the breaker/gfci and the ground going to the ground bar. and at the spa we have numbers 1, 2 and 3 going into the control board and the ground going to their ground bar
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 2 years ago.
Ok, thanks for the added information.On the GFCI breaker, can you verify, that the neutral to the spa is indeed connected to the proper terminal.usually the neutral screw on the GFCI breaker has a white dot or paint, but I do not know your make and model to give 100% confirmation.This cross up happens often and can cause the tripping.The only thing that will trip the breaker inside is a short circuit, and since it doesn't trip when the outside GFCI is off, there appears to be short from the GFCI to the Spa terminals.Check the neutral on the GFCI or if possible give the manufacturer of the disconnect and a picture if possible.Can you also look on the cable used and get the numbers off the insulation to see what cable was used.Thanks
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
the GFCI is a Squred D QO model number Q0E250GFINM. For some reason I cannot insert a picture in on here, but on the GFCI (internal) they have their white curly wire going from their neutral bar to one side of the GFCI and our number 3 wire is going into the other side of the GFCI. The cable brand is Lutze (I work for an Automation Distributor and we sell them) it is part number A3320604 which is a 6 AWG 4 Conductor
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 2 years ago.
Ok,To post a picture, you click the paper clip symbol on the chat area tool bar.Then you can upload the picture directly here from your PC.It is needed for review to know if you have the neutral connected properly or not.Disconnect the wires at the spa terminals and keep them away from anything to keep from touching.Then turn on the GFCI and see if it trips.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I know after wiring yesterday we took the Neutral wire (number 3) and removed it from the spa and nothing tripped after doing that.
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 2 years ago.
Looking at the picture, there is a jumper wire from the ground bar to the neutral bar,That MUST be REMOVEDGround and neutral NEVER join together except at the MainRemove the jumper for oneI cannot see the neutral on the breaker? Is it missing?How about a picture where they all connect to the Spa terminals?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
That is just the way the pic is taking. That is not a jumper, that ground goes down through the hole to the right which is coming from the house. The black number three wire that you see to the left over top of the grounds is the neutral coming from the hot tub to the lower right lug on the breaker. Let me take the panel cover off of the tub and i will send a pic.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Here is a pic on teh spa panel and of the wiring diagram on the cover
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 2 years ago.
Ok, thanks.Looking at the picture in detail, I can see the bend on the ground now going into the conduit.Looking at the Spa connections, they are correct from the GFCI, so do not see anything there.Lets back up for just a second.If the GFCI is ON, and you then turn on the breaker at the main panel, the main panel breaker trips? Is that correct?Or is the issue, only the GFCI?If the standard 50 amp is tripping, then the Spa has a definite short inside somewhere. Usually you can hear or see markings from the short.The tests show the 50 amp inside is fine with the GFCI off, so the wiring is good between them.Also, if the neutral is disconnected at the Spa terminals, the GFCI will hold.If it is only the GFCI, there can be a loose connection somewhere inside the Spa.There should be something visible.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
If i turn on the main 50A in the basement and then com outside and flip the GFCI breaker on as soon as I turn on the GFCI it immediately trips, like it doesn't even give any time to see or hear anything from the spa. I go downstairs and the 50A breaker there has also been tripped. I was kind of leaning to spomething with the Spa as well, but wanted to make sure
Expert:  AssuredElectrical replied 2 years ago.
Ok,The standard 50 in the main panel will only trip in 2 cases.One is high amperageSecond is short circuitIt doesnt measure like the GFCIThe GFCI will trip on any 4-6 milliamp imbalance, so it is sensitive to minor things,, even a loose or corroded connection..I think something is shorted inside the Spa somewhereWhat is happening, is the GFCI is aiding in protecting the circuit, otherwise I think you would see some damage inside the Spa.Definitely inside, just where it is located will be the problem to find.

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