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Installed new jacuzzi Spa k pump after original one overheated

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and shut down. Same thing...
installed new jacuzzi Spa k pump after original one overheated and shut down. Same thing happens,
Submitted: 2 years ago.Category: Pool and Spa
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Answered in 19 minutes by:
6/21/2015
Pool and Spa Expert: TheHotTubGuy, Hot tub service and repair. replied 2 years ago
TheHotTubGuy
TheHotTubGuy, Hot tub service and repair.
Category: Pool and Spa
Satisfied Customers: 479
Experience: I have 20+yrs experience manufacturing, repairing, and field servicing most brands of hot tubs.
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Hello.
My name is***** do my best to answer your question and resolve your issue.
What is make/model/yr of your hot tub?
Is this a complete pump/motor unit you replaced?
2sp or single speed?
What is voltage and amp rating from the label for low and high speeds?
Can you be more detailed in describing the problem? Is the pump shutting down because it loses power or is it still getting power? Is this happening in low speed or hi?
Standing by,
Todd
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
OK. I don't know if you can help; probably need a qualified Service Tech to be hands on.Jacuzzi Laser Select Spa (1999) MODEL #R275000 (also N825) - K Pump 240V Jacuzzi Part # ***** 3.0HP 60HZ, Continuous 2.5; Break 4.2.This is a new OEM Jacuzzi K Pump that is doing the same thing as my original started to do last year.After 45-60 minutes, it overheats & shuts down. After cooling down (20-30 min) it starts up again, same thing happens.Had a tech check voltage & amperage- both good. He check the eater flow (outlet return side and other side- No restrictions.Felt original pump had an impeller or ball bearing issue - suggested I get a new pump ($500.00).I just swapped out old to new K pump- same overheating issue !No unusual noises from pump- but there is a wierd 2 second noise coming from circuit box ( a "RRRR" sound);
emits about once a minute.Question: could this noise be something : how about circuit board jumpers/pump start capacitor ?I assume the thermal overload protection device/thermal switch is in the pump and is not the issue ?This info regarding the K pump says single speed but the control, panel says "off, low,high", when it overheats, the high speed wont go on.Well, that sums it up. I hope you can help.....
Pool and Spa Expert: TheHotTubGuy, Hot tub service and repair. replied 2 years ago
Good morning,
Your tub will shut down the jets after 30 minutes automatically. The exception is when filtering/heating. The pump you describe must be pump 2 because it only comes on in high speed mode. It will time out in 30 minutes. It should come back on again immediately if you restart the pump by pressing the jet button. Does this happen?
If you sure the pump is cutting out on its own, then we can check a few things. It sounds like you are describing the thermal overload built into the motor is shutting it down. This is usually do to incorrect voltage or the pump is working much too hard. Once the overload and motor cool down, it will self reset and work again. However, if the 30 mins has timed out, you will still need to activate the pump again with the jet button.
Did you install a completely new pump/motor or have your pump rebuilt onto a new motor? The part number you list is the complete pump. I ask because if the incorrect larger impeller is installed it can overwork the pump. Not likely if you replace the complete pump.
Pump 2 will have a check valve directly above the pump at the discharge. It prevents pump 1 from back flowing into pump 2 and the suctions. If that check valve is obstructed or not opening correctly, it can overwork the pump. You need to verify that check valve is okay and working correctly.
Be sure that your filters are clean. Remove them and test the pump again to see if that makes any difference.
I recommend checking the output voltage to that pump while unplugged and plugged in. Check the amp draw while the pump is flowing, check to see it goes up or stays steady until it shuts down. If the amp draw is steady and within specs of the pump, go back to focusing on that check valve.
Standing by,
Todd
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Todd:
I replaced the whole pump. The check valves are fully open. Cartridge filter is new.I'll have to check the amp draw and voltage output again ( they were checked last year prior to me buying a new pump)Pump is overheating due to a thermal issue- possibly its too hot inside skirt (i'll open skirt and run unit to see if that,s the issue.OR pump is bad. Any other recommendations for a fix ?
Pool and Spa Expert: TheHotTubGuy, Hot tub service and repair. replied 2 years ago
Hello,
The check valve I refer to attached to the pump 2 discharge union. Here is a typical picture if you use the link.
There is no real way to see inside it without removing the pump and looking through the plumbing. You may have a clear one, but usually they are solid white.
This particular one says it is magnetic, others were just closed using gravity and the normal standing water pressure.
http://thespaworks.com/parts/jacuzzi-spa-parts/jacuzzi-spa-valve-parts/jacuzzi-spa-check-valve-2-inch-slip-x-spig-magnetic
Pump 1 will not have this check valve...only pump 2 the one you are having issues with.
The thermal overload is built into the motor. It protects the motor from voltage issues or if the pump becomes overworked and hot. It is not very likely you are overheating due to the cabinet temp. unless you live in a very hot region. There is probably an issue in that valve or pump wiring at the motor. Since both pumps acted the same, I would focus on filters, plumbing restrictions (closed or shut adjustable jets) and that check valve.
What is the amp draw while running? And what is the amp draw just prior to the pump cutting out?
Standing by,
Todd
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Also, I have my spa discharge plumbing diagram. It shows that the 2" swing check valve is not directly above the pump at discharge: closest to the K pump is a 2" 90 degree Ell, then a 2" unibody valve, then a 2" swing check valve.I assume I'll have to drain the spa before I check the swing valve- can I manually open & close the check valve it while spa has water in it ? Since I cannot see it due to 90 degree ell, can I put a flexible something (less than 2" in diameter) though it?I live in the Northeast. Have never had this issue for 14 years, so its unlikely that its too hot inside the skirt.
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Can you please confirm that I know that Im talking about here. google "guillens.com" Jacuzzi Laser Select (model shows as R275000) issue date 11/99. Go to Discharge Plumbing-pages 2 & 3, item # ***** check valve. Thanks.
Pool and Spa Expert: TheHotTubGuy, Hot tub service and repair. replied 2 years ago
Please copy and paste the actual link to the page. I am unable to locate what you wish me to see.
The check valve I am talking about is glued to the discharge pump union on pump 2. It will be essentially attached to the pump when the union is connected. It usually is above the pump when the discharge is pointed up.
Follow the link to the page I sent you. It shows a pic of what the typical check valve looks like. Usually it is bulged out and not symmetrically round like most check valves.
You will not be able to see inside to tell if working correctly unless you have a clear plastic version.
I want to mention again to check to be sure that the jets are fully open. Many...not all, Jacuzzi jets screw open and closed to adjust them. If too many are closed the two pumps both on will struggle against each other. You do have an unusual problem.
You can swap pump 1 and 2 to see if it makes a difference. This will narrow it down to a restriction/check valve or if it is the actual pump/motor. Usually both pumps are identical on 1 speed dual pump Jacuzzis. Pump 1 does most the work, and it is better to have the new pump in that place and it will give you some valuable insight where the issue lies. If the new pump 2 still cuts out in the pump 1 position, then you likely have a bad motor.
Standing by,
Todd
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I don't think these are identical pumps. The J and k pump look different.
Anyway, I attached the file showing the diagram.
Thanks,
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
The jets are definitely fully open.
Pool and Spa Expert: TheHotTubGuy, Hot tub service and repair. replied 2 years ago
Hello,
Thank you for the link.
Usually Jacuzzi spas don't use shut off valves? Okay...the check valve in the picture is after the valve on that pump. It may be clear or solid color and will be spring activated if horizontal. Usually they use a springless (swing type)vertical check valve directly glued to the union at pump 2. The picture looks like it is installed horizontal?
I would be suspect of this check valve working correctly and since it does show shut off valves...I would be suspect that 1 or both of those shut off valves on pump 2 may be partially closed.
There is some reason the pump is overworked and shutting down internally. You could have 2 bad pumps, but that would be quite a coincidence.
If you have shut off valves using a handle that pulls out and pushes in, it is possible for a valve to be partially closed and still look open if the valve is broken. The handles and stem can pull out of the guillotine slice paddle inside and remain fully to partially closed. Not common, but a problem that can frustrate someone trying to figure out why the flow is restricted. You should be able to feel the valve opening and closing inside, if it feels too easy to open/close it...inspect it further.
I would focus on the check valve and the shut off valves on pump 2. The only other explanation is you have a motor with a bad thermal overload or some voltage issue to the pump.
I don't recall working on a Jacuzzi with both the J and K pumps in the same tub. They do use the same unions, however, the K pump does not have that snout and would probably not reach the suction union.
You need to be sure that pump 1 and 2 are the same HP and amp ratings. If pump 1 is larger than pump 2, it will overpower it. Both pumps must be equal power on this type of plumbing setup. Other brands of tubs use completely different plumbing circuits for each pump and matching them is not an issue. Your tub uses 2 pumps both single (hi) speed. One pump on hi speed for low/filtering/heating and both pumps hi speed for jets. Both pumps are on the same plumbing circuit and that is the purpose of that check valve...to prevent pump 1 from flowing back into pump 2 when it is not on. If mismatched, one pump will be more powerful than the other, causing a problem.
I do not know what else to suggest to check. The check valve and shut off valves can be very difficult to tell if they are correct because you usually cannot see inside them to tell.
If you find any new info that is helpful, please let me know. Any info can lead to a thought and solution. I cannot see or put my hands on your tub, but I will do the best I can in this troubleshooting format.
Standing by,
Todd
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Pool and Spa Expert: TheHotTubGuy, Hot tub service and repair. replied 2 years ago
Hello,
Any update?
Standing by,
Todd
Ask Your Own Pool and Spa Question
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Good Afternoon:
I've been out of town for a few weeks. The check & shut off valves were fine. My pumps are the same HP and amp rating.
I don't think I have a thermal,overload issue. You are very knowledgeable; I do thank you for your suggestions, although these did not fix my issue. Please have Just Answers issue a refund to my credit card.
these did not fix my issue.Thank you. Bob K.
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