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I have a problem with my weil-mclain gold plus indirect

Customer Question
I have a problem...

I have a problem with my weil-mclain gold plus indirect water heater. Our domestic hot water is luke warm at best. The line from the boiler to the HWT is hot, line from the tank to the boiler is slightly warm but i can easily hold it bare handed. The domesitc hot water line is only mildly warm to the touch. I would suspect it should be hot. Sounds like the pumps are running all the time for the HWT. When i turn the thermostat all the way down they shut off, when i turn the thermostat up at all they run non stop. Any ideas???

Contractor's Assistant: How long has this been going on? And how severe is the problem?

Started this morning that i know of.

Contractor's Assistant: Do you plan on doing the work yourself?

If its not to involved, just like to diagnose the problem first.

Contractor's Assistant: Anything else we should know to help you best?

Not that i know of. Leaving for a trip next week and weather is supposed to get cold here in Montana, need to get it fixed asap.

Submitted: 7 months ago.Category: Plumbing
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Answered in 3 minutes by:
9/29/2017
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago
Rick
Rick, Construction Supervisor
Category: Plumbing
Satisfied Customers: 23,998
Experience: Licensed Master plumber with 40+ yrs. experience.
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Welcome to Just Answer, my name is ***** ***** I will do my best to help you with your issue. If my initial response doesn’t answer your question then let me know and we can continue our conversation.

There should only be 1 pump fr the water heater. The other pumps are likely for the heating zones in the house. It sounds like you have a circulation problem. How do you know the pump for the water heater is running? What thermostat are you turning up & down? What's the pressure on the boiler pressure gauge.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
It just sounds like the pump is running at the hwt. With i unplug the thermostat it stops making noise, when i turn the thermostat all the way down it stops. I am turning down the thermo that is on the top of the hwt.40-42 psi on the boiler gauge.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Pump to the hwt is very hot but it is vibrating like its running, sounds like its running.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Are you there?
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Have a little patience. I'm not a machine. I can only type so fast!

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Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Ok first boiler pressure is excessive assuming the gauge is working. 30 psi is max pressure. Above 30 the boiler relief valve should discharge. (there are a few exceptions). Under normal circumstances you can't hear a cartidge type circ when it's running. If the piping is also very hot then it would be normal for the pump to be hot too. If the piping at the pump is not hot but the pump is very hot then the pump has failed.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Piping is hot before and after pump.
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Are any valves on the circulating lines to the tank shut off? If not then assuming the pump is running you probably have either a flow check stuck closed (could be in the pump or on the piping) or an air block in the circulating lines

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Readings on the boiler are, 180 degrees currently, mix temp 118-122, mix temp target 140. Again, line from boiler to hwt is hot, return to boiler line slightly warm at best. Domestic hot warter outlet line, only slightly warm even with hot water turned on at sinks. Plenty of water volume and pressure, just no heat. Boiler furnace running almost continually unless hwt thermostat turned all the way down or disconnected.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
All valves to and from tank open. Has been working fine for two years since last maintenence check up. Nothing has been changed. How do you check for a flow check issues? If that is the problem, how is it corrected?
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Your parameters don't add up. The only way the burner runs almost constantly is if the water circulating to the tank is giving up it's heat. This would track with hot in warm out on circ lines but then the water in the tank can only heat up.

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Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

How long has the burner and pump been running but no hot water?

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
The boiler does not run all the time but it will burn to heat the temp up to around 190, the. Turn off, sounds like pump still running to hwt, boiler temp drops to around 158 and the boiler fires again, repeats continually.When i turn the thermostat off the hwt however, the boiler turns off and temps stay hotter MUCH LONGER. Before dropping down to the 158 where the boiler starts up again to reheat.
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

you didn't answer my other question

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Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

How long has the burner been cycling and the pump running?

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
First noticed the problem this morning. Boiler is not burning continuously but it is going through its burn cycle continuously. Pump near the hwt is running all the time unless thermostat is disconnected or turned all the way down. No change in temp of boiler return line or domestic hot water out line.
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Something just came to mind. Is the house on a slab?

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No, well, majority of house has crawl space under it, about 4 feet tall. One attached room was to be an attached garage but that was converted to a rec room, it has a slab floor but all other house has crawl space under it.
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

The only scenario that fits all the parameters in your description is a broken hot water line. I asked about a slab because it wouldn't show under a slab. The only way your burner cycles and pump runs constantly is if you're dumping hot water somewhere. I'd turn every fixture in the house off then check the water meter for any movement or the pump gauge (if you have a well) for any presure drop.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Heres a question, if i lift the relief valve on the top of the hwt, should the water coming out be hot or cold? Because its only slightly warm?.?
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

It would be no hotter than the water out of the faucets.

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Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Your system is acting normally as if the water in the tank isn't hot. The only way that happens is if you're using the hot water or it's leaking somewhere.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Should that not be hot? I can see every inch of hot water line from the boiler to the hwt, there are no leaks. I am not saying the boiler pumps are working, i am saying, the furnace is firing repeatedly. Fires the furnace, boiler temp raises to 190 or so, furnace turns off, over around a 5 minute time frame, the boiler temp drops to 158 and the furnace kicks back on and brings temp back up to 190 or so. Thats with the hwt pump running.When i turn the hwt thermostat down all the way, the boiler furnace has not turned on once in the time in the past 25 minutes and boiler temp is stil 170....
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

You did say the pump was working and I've been laboring under that assumption this entire time. If the pump to the tank isn't working and you have a call for hot water the boiler will continue to cycle until you turn down the aquastat on the tank. The pump not working (a circulation problem like I mentioned before) would also explain these symptoms.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No hot water turned on anywhere in house. I can see every inch of hot water line from boiler to hwt, no leaks at all. If we were loosing hot water after the hwt, the domestic hot water line from out of the tank would be hot, it is not, its cool.If i turn a hot water faucet on in the house and let it run, the domestic water line coming out of the hwt does not get any warmer.Again, boiler line to HWT is very not its entire length from boiler to hwt. The return line from hwt to boiler is not hot at all even with pumps turned on... seems like there is hot water to hwt from boiler, none coming out of hwt either from the return to boiler line or the domestic out line to the house?
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Did you read my last response?

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Whenever the thermostat is turned up below its lowest position the pump to the hwt runs continuously that is correct. Only time this turns off is when the thermostat is disconnected or turned off. Water temp coming out of the hwt never changes. Its not COLD but only luke warm at best.
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

I have nothing else to add. I covered all the possibities. Since you say you have no leaks then you can only have a circulation problem. The possible culprits which I have covered already are: a bad pump, a problem flow check or air in the loop. The fix is to replace the pump or the flow check or purge the loop.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Where is the flow check located?
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

I already answered this question.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Just read every post you typed and do not see where you say where the the check valves are.....
Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

at 2:39
"... If not then assuming the pump is running you probably have either a flow check stuck closed (could be in the pump or on the piping)... "

I've covered all the possibilities. There's nothing more I can add. If you have more new questions I'll respond when I return from a break.

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Plumber: Rick, Construction Supervisor replied 7 months ago

Do you have more questions?

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