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Jake
Jake, Nissan Technician
Category: Nissan
Satisfied Customers: 3935
Experience:  Experienced collision repair technician, Pulaski Tech graduate and DSM hobbyist.
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2009 nissan titan turns over but no running have replaced

Customer Question

Customer: 2009 nissan titan turns over but no running have replaced ecm relay already still no spark
JA: Thanks. Can you give me any more details about your issue?
Customer: just did
JA: OK got it. Last thing — JustAnswer charges a fee (generally around $20) to post your type of question to Nissan Experts (you only pay if satisfied). There are a couple customers ahead of you. Are you willing to wait a bit?
Customer: if you can solve my problem i will pay
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Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Nissan
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Hey there, what happened prior to this? any significant? did the vehicle stall while driving or what?

What happens when you turn the key to ON position? Do you get a security light that stays on solid? or the condensor fan coming on?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
what happen why do i now have to pay someone else?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Posted by JustAnswer at customer's request) Hello. I would like to request the following Expert Service(s) from you: Live Phone Call. Let me know if you need more information, or send me the service offer(s) so we can proceed.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
when are going to help
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
please call me on my cell number ***-***-****
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Sorry I am not on in the evenings very much as I am home with my family. I replied over 3 hours ago when I was online

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

i asked you some questions in my initial reply. Please answer those so I can help you.

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Guess you stepped away. When you get a chance please answer my questions and we can continue tomorrow.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
what happened prior to this?Answer - nothing, any significant?,Answer - he drove the truck to his house shut it down 2 days later would not run just start., did the vehicle stall while driving or what, Answer - no it did not, What happens when you turn the key to ON position, Answer - nothing, Do you get a security light that stays on solid? Answer - No Flashes, or the condenser fan coming on? Answer - No, Asked Dealer shop mgr said it was a recall on the ecm relay, installed new Relay, no change just turns over but will not run, Check for codes none found
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
before and after battery was disconnected by me there where no engine codes and replaced relay
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Thank you, ***** ***** engine will crank have you checked for spark or tried starting fluid

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
on both questions and no spark
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that was the first thing I checked for.
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Thanks, ***** ***** have power to the coils and no spark when cranking.

Then more than likely the problem is the cam sensor.

Not really any way to test the cam sensor unless your scan tool has a lab scope or you have an oscilloscope.

If/when you replace the came sensor you want to be sure to get a dealer sensor here. The auto parts stores are selling crank sensors in place of cam sensors on these trucks which look identical but the resistance specs are different which cause starting issues and phantom codes.

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

For what it's worth though, most no spark issues are related the IPDM or the ECM relay in the IPDM. When this happens though there is no poer at the coils.

Assuming you swapped the relays, the condensor fan is not running with key ON, you have power at the coils, but still no spark.

Then it's almost certainly going to be the cam sensor UNLESS you did some major work your telling me like replace the transmission or driveplate or something like that.

So if what your telling me is correct I'd go far enough as to recommend replacing the cam sensor without even doing more testing.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
would it not give me a code if the cam or crank sensors were not working?
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

it should, but it doesnt ALWAYS throw a code if the wave is still there but just inconsistant so the ECM can determine timing.

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

and I have only 1 time seen a timing chain issue on these trucks so I doubt its that, these timing chains on these trucks are CRAZY reliable.

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

This is more of a process of previous elimination.

There are only so many things that can cause a no spark condition here. You already ruled out the IPDM, ECM relay, FUSES. Then since timing is so reliable and you have power at the coils we know it's not a wiring issue. So unless you just have an issue with a ground a complete ground wire broken or something, then I can't see any other possiibilities from your responses.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok so i will double check power to coils and the cam sensors, I do know that on my solus scanner there is no rpm reading and no reading from the starting signal on the scaner
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Yea, no RPM signal is an obvious indication of a cam/crank sensor not picking up the signal.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
what should the reading be as voltage and or ohms at the coil, cam and crank wiring from the ecm side of wiring?
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

The ECM side provides a ground pulse

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

it will be like 0-.2v

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
dealer says that their are three cam sensors and one crank sensor and they look identical except different as far as specs
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
is that with key on engine off or key on engine turning over for 0-.02v and ground signal
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

are you talking about 3 different cam sensors between the year models?

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

because the Titan only has ONE cam sensor, on the early years it was on the rear of the head on the drivers side, but later years like yours it was on the front and super easy to access.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
no my truck takes three cam sensors 1 crank sensor
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
this is a 2009 titan 5.6l
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

are you talking about the IVT solenoids? Those are not cam sensors

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

This is your only cam sensor.

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

you have two similar sensors, one at the top of each cylinder head called Intake valve timing control position sensors. Those are different.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok I understand just know that the dealer parts department says three are required and yes the sensors that are for the IVT are the same cam sensors and part numbers and that the crank sensor looks just like a cam sensor just different part numbers,
Just to let you know why I am I have over 45 years experience in the automotive field I work car that are from the 50's to the now 2016 always learning something new on these new cars and trucks but I know what basics should always be physically looked at as far as fuel, spark, air, compression, ohms and volts and I am real good at diagnosing problems, but there are times when things like this come up and I am looking for another techs opinion on what the problem can be.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I seem to have a problem getting a local Techs to talk to me, they always seem to think that all other techs won't pay, But I do for the right info not some BS sending me down the wrong path.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
going to go get lunch will be back in touch in a hour, will then install new cam sensor and crank sensor and will let you know what happens OK?
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Excellent, talk to you soon then.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
put all sensors in made no difference still no run condition and found in my scanner on data 2 no rpm no fuel pump relay signal and no start signal
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

wow, what on earth.

now that you replaced the sensors does it throw any codes?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
n o and did try to run then battery went down, but jumper box on and it did not run just turns over
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Still no spark I assume?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

and your SURE if you turn the key to ON the condensor fan doesn't come on?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
do you think maybe ecm bad, let battery charge right now and neg side disconnected from battery
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i am sure
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
what now go back to wiring diagram and check all specs from ecm to the coils and sensors?
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Gnerally when the IPDM or ECM fails the condensor fan comes on. This is a fail safe for a control unit failure.

Now that's not ALWAYS the case when its a driver failure on an individual circuit, but those are far less common. Especially if you haven't has any issues with the coils like a bad ground wire on the engine or any blistered coils or anything of that nature then it's less likely to have a failed driver just all the sudden.

Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

I mean you can check and make sure the sensors get their 5v signal from the ECM when key is ON. I understand they are not sending a reference signal because your not getting an RPM reading, but are they even getting a power signal?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
will check and let you know
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

ok

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Have 12 Volts at each sensor and truck almost started but then the battery went down and starter started getting slow, load check battery and it droped down to 9.5 volts and held there several times, going to replace battery though and recheck will let you know after I change Battery
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
put a battery in started right up and runs
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Excellent, probably just wore the battery down prior to replacing the sensors.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
nope battery was just replaced not long ago
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I just decided to replace after doing every thing else
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
this does not make any since customer said battery was replaced before when this happen last year and same thing truck ran after battery replacement
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

So your saying that the truck had NO SPARK before the battery replacement? then had SPARK after the battery replacement?

yea, that don't make any sense at all.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I know some else told that the fuel and spark will not happen unless the ecm see the rotation of the engine
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that's right after replacing the battery have spark and fuel readings
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I am sorry that your help was not what fixed this truck and I should get a refund on my $20.00 I spent and all the wasted time checking all the sensors and replacement of the sensor I have lost my ass on this sale!
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

Your story isn't really making sense here, you said the engine was CRANKING but didn't have spark?

Be sure your giving accurate responses if you even use this service again, we are not at the vehicle and rely solely on your responses in order to proceed with the best route of diagnostics.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I told you exactly what was going on with this truck from the beginning and yes no spark with old battery in truck and all the sensors had a 12 volt power supply to each sensor and .02 volts going to them with the key on engine off, I left nothing out when I was talking to you about this problem, what more could I have told you, you asked questions and I answered them, and then did every thing you asked me to check for and replaced the parts you suggested to replace and still truck did not run until I decided to replace battery and only then did the truck start and run.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have never had this problem before with any other car or truck that come in my shop, this was as frustrating to as it is to you that this was not making any since to me as it is to you.
Expert:  Jake replied 1 year ago.

No need to reply, this has already been sent to the staff of the site.

thanks.