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Kenny O.
Kenny O., Motorcycle, ATV, Mules, Side by Side's Product Specialist. All Brands
Category: Motorcycle
Satisfied Customers: 1000
Experience:  Worked for Kawasaki Motors as a Product Support Specialist (Factory Support) for 24 years
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2003 kawasaki vulcan nomad fi 1500. Cranks but won't start.

Customer Question

2003 kawasaki vulcan nomad fi 1500. Cranks but won't start. New battery and ecu still no fire to plugs and fuel pump isn't coming on. Checked all fuses good.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Motorcycle
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Hi Brian my name is ***** ***** to get a few things before we get started

  • Currant mileage on this unit ?
  • Has anything been changed out lately (replaced parts) including the ignition switch ?
  • VIN # ***** number 17 digits ?
  • Do you have a multi-meter ?

Thanks

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
40,000 miles, vin# *****
NEW BATTERY AND ECU
YES I HAVE A MULTI METER
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Thanks (VN1500-L4) Can I ask you why the ECU was replaced ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Kawasaki dealer said that was the problem. $600 and it didn't fix it.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK, that's typical, OK a couple more questions and I think I know what's going on, I will have you do a couple simply VDC readings and we'll get to the bottom of this.

  • Ignition switch ever changed, is it the original that you know of ?
  • Explain when this happened, were you riding....etc ?
  • Any weird electrical issues other then no spark (running) ?

Thanks

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ignition is original ( just recently you have to wiggle the key to get the lights to come on, on the instrument cluster). No the bike was in the garage my buddy was going to move it battery was dead so he tried to jump it. No other electrical issues
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK Great Brian, thanks for that info very informative to me, as you might know, its hard for us when we don't get to actually touch what we are trying to diagnose, so that's why I rely on good info back, makes it much easier. I'm going to work up a sheet for you, I make try to make this as easy as I can for some of you what don't have the experience of working on bikes.

In the mean time I would like to remove what you have to get to the ignition switch connection, and also the ECU, no need at this point to remove the ECU, just keep the new ECU in place, you will need your meter then as you will be performing a couple simple voltage readings.

Also do you have your old ECU ?

One more question did the dealer diagnose the problem, meaning did you bring the bike to him and they actually worked on it ?

Thanks

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
they diagnosis. And yes i do have the old ecu
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK Brian, here you go, when checking the voltage called out in the diagram, connect your meter ground lead directly to the battery, this will establish a good positive ground.

Get back with your results, if you are in question about anything just reply back.

Thanks

Kenny

http://spaces.hightail.com/receive/jF67q

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Make sure you download and save a copy, the files don't stay there long.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Gray wire 0.04 yellow/green 0.75 and the black/red 6.14
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK what was your "battery voltage" ? Your numbers are really off ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
12.4 v
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK, those numbers are really wacked out, so you are probing each of those wires at the ECU and the negative (-) meter lead is on the battery ?

Maybe do a retest ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
retested all came out the same
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

??? you go a serious ground issue I believe !

Lets regroup !

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK, lets start here, are you able to get to your ignition switch connector ?

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Before we do that, I need you to just verify the grounding on this unit.

  • Check the negative at the battery, coming from the negative cable where it bolts to the battery, there is a small BK/Y "black/yellow" wire that is part of the negative cable, that wire has to plug into the main harness, is that wire plugged in ?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK that's good, now back to the ignition switch plug, are you able to access it ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
had to lift the fuel tank up to get to it.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK, that's what I thought, been a few years on that, anyway, you have my diagram I sent you, unplug the switch and measure voltage on the white wire (harness side), I want you to grab your ground from the battery for first reading and then for the second reading touch the meter negative (-) to the engine cases (good ground no paint), you should get the same readings

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Both readings were the same.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK good, lets try plugging the ignition switch back in, this time we will basically perform that test (with the switched plugged in) again on the white wire but this time you will have the switch on

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Same as before
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK thanks, ***** ***** take these readings please post the numbers, that's how this old brain works, sorry !

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
12.4 v sorry
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Next, switch plugged in, probing the "brown" wire, have your meter hooked up and turn the key on, whats that voltage on the brown wire ?

You can either go to the battery or that good engine ground you established, just stick to one or the other. ?

Excellent thanks for posting that

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
12.2 v
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

not the answer I wanted, OK here is what I would like you to do next, you have the sheet I sent you, I want you to perform those test again but we are going to eliminate the ignition switch, get a BIG paper clip or a piece a solid wire and I want you to bridge the white to the brown, and then get a reading on the yellow/green wire, do not attempt to start it yet, just make sure that the connection you make on the brown and white wire is good.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
75v
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK, do the next test on the black/red wire where you hit the starter button

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
About 8.8 v it was bouncing up and down
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK, back to the ignition switch connection, this time plug I back in and you need to check the voltage on the gray wire at the ignition switch when the key is turned on.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
0.02 v
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

No good, that needs to be about 11 volts, that is part of the anti-theft circuitry in the ECU, do you have a electronics store where you can buy resistors ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
a radio shack about 40 miles away what do I need to get
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

I think they went out of business, at least in California, what big city is close to you ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Florence Alabama. We have a radio shack their.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Things are currently pointing at the ignition switch, if you can get your hands on a 1/4 watt 100 ohm resistor (50 cents) that will allow us to by-pass the resistor in the ignition switch to insure that is the issue, I feel at this point that is it, but I like to be sure rather then have you go out and buy a switch you don't need, you have already spent enough money.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
When we get the resistor what steps do i need do to hook that up. It will be tomorrow before i can get it. Radio shack closes at 6:30 and it's 6:30 now
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Grab a couple of them, I will post up instructions on how to do it, I think I would like to rule that out, I'm a little concerned about the 8.8 you got when we by-passed, if you are going to go there grab some shrink tubing for 16 gage wire, also if they have connectors that you think might fit into the harness side connector grab then, not sure what you used to bridge the two wires but if you have some of those connectors and wire we can totally eliminate the switch for testing purposes.

Also you'll need a soldering iron to solder in this resistor,

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have the connectors, wire ,heat shrink.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Here is the document

Download it and save a copy,

Thanks

Kenny

http://spaces.hightail.com/receive/ZEGxB

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Kenny, I did what you said with the resistor the fuel pump cycles but no fire to the plugs. Sorry t took so long I had to go to Kansas to get my niece
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Whit that resistor in place, can you test that voltage again on that gray wire at the ECU ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
6.80 volts
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

I'm really struggling on your voltage readings ??? Tell me how you wired this ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
A 16 gauge jumper between and brown then the resistor from brown to gray
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Jumper white to brown
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

So the we know that the white wire is power from battery, then the gray wire and the brown wire at together, except the gray wire has the resistor in it, then you touch the white wire to the paired brown and gray so the ECU is seeing voltage on both those wires, but will see a little less on the gray wire, is this what you have going on ? THE ECU HAS TO SEE VOLTAGE ON BROWN AND GRAY AT THE SAME TIME

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Okay its exactly as you said and voltage is still 6.8 volts at gray at ecu
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

So you got more voltage with the resistor added then going through the switch, I think you said .75 volts, correct ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

lets add another resistor in that gray wire, you'll then have two

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Add another resistor. Voltage at gray wire is 8.0volts now
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

You purchased 100 ohm resistors 1/4 watt ? did you check for spark now ? if still no spark ? add another one if you got it ? we need that voltage around 11 volts

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
1/4 watt 100 ohms. Ok
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Good

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Added the 3rd resistor . volts at 8.96 no spark
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

What the heck is going on??? OK would you have happened to check the continuity on the "gray" wire from where the ignition switch plug, into back to the ECU, unplug the harness at the ECU and check continuity from the plug at the ignition switch to the ECU, gray wire ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
With ignition and ecu unplugged meter on 200 ohms Greg wire has 0.4
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

So there is some resistance on that wire ???, does your meter have a lower setting ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok on my brothers blue point meter on auto
It has 2.6 on 400 scale the meter sets it self
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Then we have resistance on that wire ?? can you look to see id anyone has tried repairing it or maybe even added a resistor somewhere ? that is a direct wire from the ignition to the ECU, it does not go anywhere else ! what about running an (outside of the harness) directly back to the ECU ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Key switch isn't the problem, bought a new switch. Fuel pump comes on , power to both sides of the coil 12v but not firing
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Brian my last request was for you to check the resistance on that gray wire, you have resistance according to the response on 6/13 @3:27pm, replacing the switch isn't going to fix that ? Whats going on there ?

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK Brian, with the "new" switch, what's the voltage on the gray wire measuring it at the ECU ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Retested with different meter Had continuity then visually inspected grey wire looked perfect so I figured it was the switch voltage is 6.0v
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK that's not going to cut it, do you know how to release a pin from a connector plug, I would like you to do that at the ECU plug and then poke a wire in at the ignition switch and make it long enough to reach the ECU, basically I want you to run an external gray wire (outside the harness) If you go in Youtube and look up removing wire from connector you'll probably show you, I found a few a while back

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Okay it will be tomorrow when I get the ecm pin connector
Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

OK Brian

Expert:  Kenny O. replied 1 year ago.

Hi Brian, did you come up with anything on this ? following up

Thanks

Kenny

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