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I have a knocking super fast near cylinder 1. I took scope

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to it and sound like...
I have a knocking super fast near cylinder 1. I took scope to it and sound like intake and water pump area. Adjusted the lash and still there. Replaced the water pump and still there! What else can I try before pulling the head? How to check springs? No idea what it could be! Help!!!
Submitted: 1 year ago.Category: Mitsubishi
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Answered in 27 minutes by:
3/30/2016
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago
Doug
Doug, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Mitsubishi
Satisfied Customers: 6,967
Experience: Mitsubishi employed and Factory trained ASE certified technician
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Hi,

What model vehicle is this?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Lancer ralliart 2.4l the 4g69 motor
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Thanks.

Please unplug the #1 fuel injector and see if the knocking stops or quiets substantially. Note the engine will run poorly of course, we are just interested in seeing if it changes the intensity of the knock.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Ok it is already running poorly. I won't be near the vehicle till 1 hour from now
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Also it is throwing no codes
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

No problem, we can pick up later.

The purpose of this test is to see if the noise is coming from the bottom end... when the fuel is cut there will no longer be any combustion, and if the noise is in the bottom end it will quiet down. We can repeat on the other 3 cylinders, but it sounds like you already have narrowed it down to the front of the engine.

If there is no change at all, we will next want to remove the front timing covers and check the timing belt tensioner condition as they have been known to knock real badly if they fail.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I have already replaced the tensioner since I did not have the tool to compress it when I swapped the water pump
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Thanks, ***** ***** rules that out most likely anyway. We will still want to check the adjustment of the mechanical tensioner too though; if it was installed incorrectly it will cause the same sort of noise as the tensioner extends.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
It is not coming from the timing area at all. More towards the intake manifold top by cyl 1. I will try fuel injectors. Sounds like rocker or lifter type noise just really loud!
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Just to be clear, when you are saying cylinder #1, you do mean the one nearest the timing belt right?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I meant it's not coming from the side portion of the engine. Ie vertical side. From top back area where the intake manifold connects
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Okay, just making sure we are on the same page.

Lets do the injector unplugging tests and see if the noise quiets any, which again would indicate a problem primarily in the bottom end. If it does not change at all and you know your valves are adjusted properly, then we will still want to inspect that tensioner adjustment next.

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Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

With it sounding like the intake and water pump area, I have a feeling we will be dealing with a bottom end knock and it will likely get quieter when you unhook power to the affected cylinders' injector. Lets check it out first though and see if we are on the right track.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Headed to car now. Will get back when I pull injector
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Is there a way to send you a video of the noise?
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Yes, the easiest way would be to upload to youtube and then post a link here.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Unplugged all of them one at a time. No change
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I also have a video scope of that helps. Setting up YouTube now
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
https://youtu.be/Jp-nveAqnUo Here is the link
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Yeah that isn't at all what I was expecting. That just sounds like valve train noise, a hair louder than usual but nothing really drastic.

When you adjusted the valves, did you do so hot or cold? What did you adjust them to?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
We did both actually. And the second time it seemed to have been looser than we set it the first time. I believe it was .008 and .012
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Thanks.

Those are the right numbers... making sure of course you are using inches and not mm and the .008 is intake and the .012 is exhaust.

However you must do these with the engine completely hot or they won't be any good.

Lets run the engine up to full operating temperature and check your clearances again and see where you stand.

I'm attaching a chart to help with identifying which valves can be adjusted when; the white arrows are for when the engine is at TDC (mark on cam at 12 oclock) the black arrows are for BDC (mark at 6 oclock).

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I already did that. Today we did it a second time. I have the technicians chilton for it here. When this started I was accelerating to get on the freeway when it started to bog down then the noise started getting gradually louder and car was sputtering. One of the plugs had the center ceramic broke and wiggling around and I believe cyl 3 had oil on spark end of plug
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Should I scope the cylinders through plug holes with my camera?
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Well that would certainly be really useful information!

Yes, lets take a look down into the cylinder that had the plug failure. If we lost any part of that plug down there we've got issues.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Not sure which one it was but I'll check them all. What are big red flags for anything else I find in there
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Also a few days before the MAF sensor said was too lean.
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Check for debris first and foremost, but also look for signs of damage from foreign matter being in there previously as well.... any marks at all on the cylinder walls primarily, but the face of the piston and if you have a reverse head camera end the combustion chamber as well.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Don't see anything inside. Cylinder 4 is super clean piston cyl 1 very dirty. It's carbon
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Cylinder walls look clean too
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Hmm.
Unfortunately at this point I think you are probably going to need to pull that head for inspection.
I don't really see any other real expectations... the sound sounds like the valves are out of adjustment, but you are certain they are fine. That does leave debris in the cylinder as a suspect as it sounds the same, but nothing is found there even though we know we had a plug fail.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Well the plug piece wasn't missing just loose. Is there suppose to be sideways play on the rocker assembly?
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

A little yes.... do you have excessive play? Like it moves all the way to the advanced position for mivec?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Cylinder 3's plug end is soaked in fuel
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Are there any vacuum tests I can do?
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Not really.... you either have engine vacuum or you do not. You should have 15-17inHg at idle (varied 15% or so depending on altitude), if you do not then there is a problem with your valves (be it mechanical problem, timing problem, etc).
If #3 is soaked in fuel, are you certain you have spark there and are certain you have good compression there?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
It was 200 and new plug
Mitsubishi Mechanic: Doug, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Are you certain you have spark there, regardless of the newness of the plug?

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