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I have a mercury mariner 2.3L vehicle i am having trouble…

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I have a mercury mariner...
I have a mercury mariner 2.3L vehicle i am having trouble with. 9 months ago the tensioner went bad and was replaced. 3 weeks ago the battery was getting old/low during cold weather and was replaced. 2 days later the idler pulley snapped off (not one of the best designs). While going through the process to remove the broken bolt that was still in the housing we took off the alternator for easier access. As this was a huge undertaking we decided to have the alternator checked to make sure it was good as it did have a bit of bearing noise. It showed to be bad so we replaced it. There had been a leak in the front crank seal that we had been needing to fix so we decided this would be a good time to do it before putting on the belt. This is where we need help.
We had taken off the crank sensor in order to remove the alternator (then reconnected it) and took off the harmonic balancer in order to remove the seal and replace. Unlike every car we've ever done this too, this car does not have an alignment key and we did not know this until it was off. Unfortunately we did not mark where it was before removing, honestly didn't even think about it. We replaced the seal stuck the harmonic balancer back on and replaced the belt. While turning over the car on the first revolution it sounded like it may have jumped time. Now it just turns over but doesn't fire and sounds like it does not have any compression. This vehicle ran fine before all of this and I'm sure it is something somewhat easy to fix but we are at a loss as to where to go now.
We have attempted to put it back in time by getting the first cylinder TDC and lining up the crank with the alignment tool at 6:00. It doesn't seem to do anything different. Where do I go from here!! The problem seems to have come from either the crank sensor being out of adjustment (?), or could it really have skipped time because the harmonic balancer was not put back on the same as it was taken off? PLEASE HELP?
Submitted: 3 months ago.Category: Mercury
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1/6/2018
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago
Mechanic01
Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Mercury
Satisfied Customers: 2,490
Experience: Owner at Baltic investments
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Hello my name is ***** ***** welcome to just answers! I will be assisting you with all of your vehicle questions today. Give me one moment while I review your question and come back with a answer. Please be aware I do not know your skill level or abilities so I will be asking a lot of questions and in a lot of cases we will respond to each other quite a lot before we find a solution. As far as phone calls are concerned that is the system prompting you, not me, and they do cost more money, I prefer text but in some cases a phone call is required. If I don’t answer right away or quickly in conversation I am helping another customer or have stepped out for a moment and will respond as soon as I can. Ok lets get started!

There could be a few things wrong here, can you see if the sensor is reading correctly, do you have a picture of the pulley and sensor installed, maybe I can spot something

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The sensor was working correctly before we took it off and I have no idea how to tell if it is reading correctly. I will take a picture.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lo1syy4xazqt5qt/st9.docx?dl=0

Here is the procedure, I think you may have goofed on the removal

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Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wx82jr2z00i7nao/sat10.docx?dl=0

heres the other procedure it will get you back right again

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
do you think it jumped time or has mainly to do with the sensor?
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

I dont think it jumped time, I think its not reading correctly on the sensor, I bet if you re do everything in the instructions it will fire right up

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok, guess I will run to the part store and buy a new sensor as this is the only way I can get the alignment tool from my understanding. I will let you know the results soon.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

yeah you can just use it and return it lol

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
is it necessary to remove the engine plug bolt and where on earth would I get a timing peg? If I can skip this step and find TDC on the first cylinder making sure to line up the crank at 6:00 and remove the crank sensor and use the tool to realign, would this not work?
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

yes and you can use a small screwdriver for that it gets it dead center on tdc once to bolt is removed you will see how it fits in there after you get it to tdc close

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
is it necessary to remove the bolt then?
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

yes that way you can insert the screwdriver

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
the way my husband usually does this is takes out the first spark plug and puts a screw driver in the hole to find TDC. Thats what we have been doing. How is using the engine bolt area any different than that?
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

you can do it that way but the pin will set it the way its supposed to be and it wont move your tdc could be a little off from how it needs to be timed

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I can see that it could be a hair off but it will not even fire. still sounds like no compression
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

I dont know how you could get no compression from just removing the crank pulley unless your timing chain popped off?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I cant see that happening. I would think if the chain was off and the engine was turning you would here a horrible noise with a metal chain clinking around in there. He is fixing to do a compression test.......No compression at all on the number one cylinder. It is like it completely jumped time.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

ok let me know what happens

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
There is no compression
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

looks like you have to pull the cover to see what happened

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok, we got it off. There seems to be nothing wrong with the timing, the first cylinder is up, crank at 6. The timing belt has no slack and is on perfect. This doesn’t make a lick of sense... here are photos.We are going to test out his compression tool on another vehicle tomorrow to double check and make sure they work (don’t think that’s a problem but need to rule it out. It sounds like there is no compression though.We even changed out the old crank sensor since we had it and it is dong the same thing, no change.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I keep thinking maybe we unplugged something and it didn’t get plugged back in. I’ve looked but can’t see anything and don’t know if anything that would cause it to seem out of time.....
It is too cold and now dark here so we are going in for the night. Tomorrow we will check out the firing and see if that could be a problem.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

thats so weird, let me know what you come up with

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok, let me know if you come up with any ideas, so far nothing is different.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok, we checked the compression tester, it works fine. This car has zero compression.
We checked to see if it is firing, yes it is firing.
We lined up the slots in the cam, like you are going to put it in time, and the number 1 cylinder is not TDC.
How on earth can a timing chain motor jump time but the timing chain be on and have no slack?
Any ideas on where to go from here?
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

You may have to pull the front cover to check the adjuster, if its out all the way it would easily jump and make it look like it still ok, being off time could have made it backfire enough to pop the chain off a bit to have no compression

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I’m looking up info in this motor and came across a video of this motor having a timing chain sync problem. This sure may be the problem.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I think the problem happened when we remove the crank pulley, we did not put in a bolt I lock it down before we took out the crank bolt. Because if the design, the timing chain will spin without moving the camshaft. That must have been how it got out of time.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

yes have you pulled the main cover yet to inspect the tensioner?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The harmonic balancer holds the crank sprocket in place, there is no keyway on the sprocket. If the crank is turned with the harmonic balancer removed the timing is off. Which must be what happened. We are going to attempt to put it back in time with this new knowledge we found and see what happens.
No, we have not pulled the main cover to inspect the tensioner. I do not think that is necessary at this point. We are going to try the video information and see if that fixes the problem. I will let you know if that solves the issue.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

ok sounds good ill be here

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I think what I’m doing will work but I have to figure out where to by the specialty tool that keeps the crank from turning when I remove the crank bolt. May be tomorrow being it is Sunday
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

thats ok ill be here today

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
We got the TDC timing bolt and the cam tool.
We put in the timing bolt, first cylinder TDC, realigned the harmonic balancer at 6:00. After doing so we noticed that the cam tool would not fit.
We hoped that this would put it in time but there was still no compression on all 4 cylinders. After noticing that the cam tool would not fit we realized that the cams may have turned 180 out and so we turned them 180, after doing so the cam tool fit right into place. One would assume that the cam tool fitting into while the 1st cylinder is TDC and the harmonic balancer at 6:00 then it would be in time. But once again it is firing on all 4 but zero compression.
Completely at a loss here. It ran fine before removing the harmonic balancer without having the TDC pin tool in.
At this point I need a mechanic to run down every possible reason that could cause all 4 to have zero compression.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

did you pull the timing cover and inspect the timing chain?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
No we have not, it is turning and has no slack at all. I really don’t want to take off something else unless tou can think of a specific thing that could be wrong that would cause it to have no compression from that area.
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

something jumped time inside theres not other explanation

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Well, I guess we will give it another go tomorrow then. I just can’t see how a metal chain can just jump time though. Doesn’t make any sense. Don’t want to offend you but is there another person you can get some ideas from?
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

I promise you thats it I see it all the time, just pull the cover and you will see it has jumped and prob the tensioner is all the way out

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Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

the reason it just now did it is because you had the timing off and it backfired causing a weak tensioned chain to jump

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
We put it back in time, crank it over and it stays in time but has no compression.How does that make sense. Guess we will pull it off tomorrow. Let you know how it goes.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Do you see it all the time with this specific motor?
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

yes

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok, we’ll let you know
Mercury Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 3 months ago

sounds good ill be here

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
It has been very cold here and I haven't been able to get back out there to take of the cover. I am hoping to get to it this weekend if the wind will stop blowing.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok we are going to take off the cover today. The weather is finally warmer. Can you please send a link that tells how to remove the cover, just in case there is something need a tool for?
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago
A. Penland
A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE
Category: Mercury
Satisfied Customers: 6,844
Experience: ASE Master Certified. ASE Gasoline Engine Performance Certified,Ford Senior Master Technician
Verified

Since you have removed the crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer, you will need to properly retime the engine timing chain. The crankshaft pulley does not have a key way to align to the crankshaft. Below are the directions for resetting the timing chain.

The camshafts and crankshaft have to be held into place with a locking bar and locking pin to keep the crankshaft and camshaft in time to allow removal of the crankshaft pulley bolt. The bolt, when properly torqued, locks the crankshaft pulley, crankshaft timing gear and crankshaft together.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
were you able to read all the conversation from the last mechanic?
Or just my original question? He was not able to help.
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

You will need to reset the timing chain and then do a manual compression test on all 4 cylinders. They should all be around 170 PSI. There is a possibility that the valves have made contact with the pistons and may have done damage to the valves This engine is called an interference engine. Also, make sure the locking pin for the crankshaft is actually on the crankshaft throw. It can lock the crank in 2 different spots.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Were you able to read the entire conversation?
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

If you have it back in time, and no compression, you will need to remove the cylinder head and have the valves inspected for damage from making contact with the pistons.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Does that mean you read the other conversation??????????????????????????????????????
Yes or no will work.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The last guy insisted it had to be something wrong with the timing chain. We got it off and nothing is wrong with it. It has no compression (zero) on all 4 cylinders after putting it in time. How can it damage all 4 valves if it has not even started since this we took of the crank. We have turned it over after putting it in time but there was zero compression so it would not attempt to start.
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

I did read the conversation, which jumps back and forth.

Did you try to start the engine after the crankshaft pulley was reinstalled?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
we did try to start it after the crankshaft pulley was reinstalled. This was before we realized that we should have used the stupid little TDC locking pin, so it was probably out of time. It never tried to start though, just sounded like it had no compression.That is when we started talking to just answer to find out how to put it back in time. At no time has it attempted to start it just has zero compression even after putting it back in time.
If bent valves are the only other option, how could all 4 be damaged? It doesn't make any since.My other question is, you stated that locking pin could lock in two different spots. That is new information. But we had the first cylinder at TDC and locked the pin at that time. Is it possible that it could have been done another way? Would the pin have went in 2 different ways at TDC? That doesn't make sense either though....
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

The pin can lock the crankshaft slightly before TDC and on TDC.

If the engine ran before these repairs, then the timing did jump and cause the valves to contact the pistons which will cause no compression. A bad crankshaft sensor will cause a crank, no start, but not no compression.

Did you do an actual compression test on all 4 cylinders?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
we put a new crankshaft sensor in. Yes we did a compression test on all 4 cylinders and all 4 had zero compression. We even tested our tool on a different car just to be sure something wasn't wrong with the tool. It worked just fine on the other car. We checked the firing and it is firing fine.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The engine ran very well, no problems before this. It was leaking a bit of oil which is why we were changing the crank shaft seal and ended up having this problem because we didn't know about using the locking pin.
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

Then, if you are positive the engine is in time, then you will need to either remove the cylinder head and have the valves inspected, or do a cylinder leakage test to find out where the compression is leaking out of. This test requires a pressure gauge that pumps air into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and you listen to where the air is escaping from.

The air will come out the tail pipe if the exhaust valve is bad,

out the throttle body if the intake valve is bad,

or out the oil filler cap if the piston rings are bad.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
We ordered a cylinder leak down tester from amazon but it wont be here for 2 days.
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

That is the best way to evaluate the internal engine parts without tearing the engine down.

It will verify whether the valves or piston rings are the cause.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I wish we hadn't taken off the timing gasket cover like the last guy kept telling us. That was quite the chore and produced no results. It didn't make any sense and we knew that but he kept insisting that there had to be something wrong with the tensioner.
This is all very aggravating to say the least. I will let you know when i get the tester and get it tested.
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

Please keep me informed. You can reply back on this post after you do the tests.

It almost sounds like he doesn't do this kind of work on Fords.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
ok, we tested number 1 cylinder and number 4. Number one cylinder is leaking air out of number 2 spark plug hole and number 4 is leaking air out of the number one cylinder. What does this mean?? It isn't leaking out of anywhere else that we can tell, not the exhaust, dip stick or anywhere else. It is leaking very quickly out of the other holes, it isn't slowly leaking. They are both at top dead center (#1 and #4)
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Hello?
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

From what you are telling me from the test, the cylinder head and or valves are bad.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
We are going to go ahead and remove the head and see what it looks like. Do you have a link to instructions for removing the head so I don't have any surprises.
Mercury Mechanic: A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE replied 3 months ago

See the links below

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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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