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1999 mercedes c320: a/c will blow 40 to 60 degrees..cycle on hot air…

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I have a 1999 Mercedez...
I have a 1999 Mercedez e320. The a/c will blow 40 to 60 degrees for a while and then will cycle on hot air at 100 plus degrees.

This cycle will occur on and off. I live in AZ and I notice the in the morning when it is cooler the a/c stays cooler longer then in the afternoon when its hot it tends to cylce on hot air for longer then cylce on cold for shorter periods of time.

Which part could be the problem? I would think it is the a/c expansion value. If so, I would like some diagrams on how to get to the part to change it out.

If this is not the problem, what else could it be? If more information is needed, please let me know.

Steve [email protected]
Submitted: 12 years ago.Category: Mercedes
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Answered in 6 minutes by:
10/3/2010
Mercedes Mechanic: Euro Specialist, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Euro Specialist
Euro Specialist, Mercedes Technician
Category: Mercedes
Satisfied Customers: 665
Experience: Master Certified Mercedes Benz Technician - ASE Certified
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Chat Conversation Started
HighwayRepair :

Hello, there are a few possibilities for this complaint, you say the vents will blow at 100 degrees, is this the case when it is less than 100 degrees outside? If it is 85 degrees outside and the vents are blowing at 100 degrees, the vehicle is not only turning off the a/c system, but turning on the heating system.

HighwayRepair :

hello

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Yes - that is correct. It will blow at 100 plus degrees even in the morning when its 85 to 90 degrees.

HighwayRepair :

excellent, there is usually only one common cause of this, and it is possible to diagnose fairly easily

HighwayRepair :

THIS is the Duo-valve for the heating system on your vehicle.

HighwayRepair :

This controls tye flow of coolant from the engine, into the passenger compartment to allow the vehicle to heat the passenger compartment, when the ac is on, this valve should be closed, when the heater is on this valve should be open. What you can do is let the vehicle cool completely down, then start the vehicle and immediately turn the a/c on. open the hood and feel the hoses going to this valve

HighwayRepair :

the hose going from the engine to the valve should be hot, but the hose going from the valve to the firewall should not be hot.

HighwayRepair :

if none of the hoses are hot, this means the coolant is not hot yet, and the test cannot be performed

HighwayRepair :

if you can verify that the a/c stops working, and that the incoming and outgoing hoses to this valve are all hot, the valve is opening when it should not.

HighwayRepair :

you would next need to test if the valve is mechanically faulty, or if the valve is being told to open when it isnt supposed to

HighwayRepair :

you would do this by letting the vehicle cool down, and repeating the test, this time unplugging the electrical connector from the valve. If the valve still fails with the electrical connector unplugged, the valve itself is faulty, if it no longer fails when unplugged, the problem may be the electronics controlling the valve

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Do you have any pictures that can help identify where the value is located and electrical connector from the value?

HighwayRepair :

The PDF file i linked above shows you the location of the valve and the picture of it, along with the picture of its electrical connector, can you not open the above PDF link?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

I have the link - going to garage to check it out.

HighwayRepair :

excellent, let me know if you have any further questions

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

If none of the hoses are hot then do we continue to run the vehicle until coolant gets warm enough to perform the test?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Also the hose from the engine to the duo valve is cool but the duo itself is hot to the touch

HighwayRepair :

yes, a point though, if none of those hoses are hot, the a/c should still be working properly. is that true?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

ac is not working

HighwayRepair :

the vent cannot provide air hotter than the outside air temp, unless the water in those hoses are hot, perhaps we are not able to properly guage if the hoses are "hot" or not

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

The hoses are ok to touch but top of valve is extremely hot- The air blowing in does not feel like hot heater air more like air from the outside which being inAZ can be 100 plus at this hour

HighwayRepair :

perhaps the air coming out of the vent is roughly the same temperature as the outside air, and not a higher temperature than the outside air?

HighwayRepair :

Excellent, then we are more likely dealing with a lack of cooling power, than a faulty valve causing heating when not wanted. I'm in Casa Grande, so I'm familiar with Az heat.

HighwayRepair :

with this being the case, the cause of the complaint is most likely a low freon charge, caused by either a leak in the system, or the standard 4-5 year depletion of the a/c system

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

I charged the a/c about a month ago and when it is blowing its at 40 to 60 degrees.

HighwayRepair :

The a/c system can blow cold air with low pressure readings, but then the refrigerant pressures can cause the refrigerant pressure sensor to cycle the ac compressor on and off. If you just recharged the system 1 month ago, you most likely have a leak in the system. Did you have leak detector dye added to the system when you recharged it?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

I just verified that that psi shows 65 in the alert zone.

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

The hose from the engine to DUO value is not hot to touch.

HighwayRepair :

You are reading the pressures on a set of a/c guages? 65 psi hi side or low side?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Yes - this is an a/c guage that you can get at Autozone. I am testing the psi on the fill side.

HighwayRepair :

That pressure reading is dangerously high, are you testing this pressure with the a/c on?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

The ac just kicked on and the psi now shows 45 psi in the high end of the filled zone.

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

So basically if the ac is blowing hit the psi shows 65 psi and when the ac finally blows cold the psi is at 45 psi.

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Sorry should have typed if the ac is blowing hot the psi shows 65 psi and when the ac finally blows cold the psi is at 45 psi

HighwayRepair :

45 psi is an ok pressure for the low side of the a/c while its running, 65 is entirely too high, but could be caused by multiple things

HighwayRepair :

what is happening is the system pressures are getting too high so the vehicle turns off the a/c compressor so that it does not damage the a/c system. We need to find out why the a/c pressures are getting too high. Have you checked to see if the electric fans turn on when the a/c is switched on?

HighwayRepair :

If the electric fan does not turn on, system temperatures will get too high, which causes the pressure to get high

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

both small fans and large are currently moving fine. When I started the car earlier and was testing the duo value the 2 small fans were not immediately on.

HighwayRepair :

the small fans only come on when the system wants them to, the thing you would want to look for is the fan not turning on, and then the ac function turning off. As long as the fans are coming on before the ac stops working they are most likely working properly

HighwayRepair :

this is starting to sound like a possible faulty refrigerant pressure sensor, this sensor is very easy to diagnose with a computer that can communicate with the vehicle, but difficult to do by yourself at home

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

ok - maybe this helps - the ac is now blowing hot again and the small fans have turned off - does that help?

HighwayRepair :

its more likely that an electronic component caused the ac compressor to turn off for safety, and therefore the a/c electronic fans were turned off also

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Do you have a picture of where this is located?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Is there anything that would require pulling the dash out?

HighwayRepair :

TEMP SENSOR

HighwayRepair :

The wiring test only provides testing to determine if the pressure sensor has its power signal, does not give values to perform a manual electrical test on the pressure sensor.

HighwayRepair :

I miss typed earlier when i was calling it a temperature sensor. the sensor we have been talking about is the refrigerant pressure sensor

HighwayRepair :

there is also a temperature sensor, which could also be faulty, but at this point we really need a computer that can talk to the vehicle and monitor the actual values of these sensors to perform further diagnosis.

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

Is this something you do on the side if I drive to casa grande?

HighwayRepair :

Unfortunately I don't have the computer to monitor the sensor outputs

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

okay, are there any parts that could be faulty behind the dashboard?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

And do you have any other thoughts about why this would cyles on and off?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

AC is cold - if I unplug the duo connector will this leave the duo value in the one position?

HighwayRepair :

When unplugged the duo valve should close ( not allow the heater to work )

HighwayRepair :

the ac is likely cycling on and off due to the pressure readings getting too high, then turning the a/c off to prevent damage to the a/c system.

HighwayRepair :

the pressure readings could be off by a mechanical issue ( fan, incorrect refrigerant charge levels, clogged expansion valve) or an electrical issue from a sensor

HighwayRepair :

unlikely that your complaint is caused by a faulty component under the dashboard, possibly the evaporator temperature sensor, which is located under the dashboard.

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

do you have a pciture of the evaporator temperature sensor location and its location? thank you for all your help this far.

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

and what does the evaporator temp. sensor do?

HighwayRepair :

EVAP TEMP sensor.

HighwayRepair :

Function Description

HighwayRepair :

Does this Technical Service Bulletin sound like your complaint?

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

The Tech. Service Bulletin does sound pretty close. Based on the picture -- you'll see an image of the steering wheel on one side and the evap. temp. sensor on the other side. So where is this evap. temp. sensor? is it behind the dashboard? do you have any other photos to help locate? again -- thank you for your help - this is the one item I have the I really enjoy and the hot / cold is killing me. I'll check back in the am - thank you again.

HighwayRepair :

You're very welcome, I don't have any additional pictures, the evaporator temperature sensor is on the passenger side "underneath" the dashboard. You can get to it if you remove the plastic under car encapsulation panels.

JACUSTOMER-xd0xvpnm- :

are you sure the evaporative temp sensor is under the passenger side? or is it under the drivers side?

HighwayRepair :

The evaporativ temp sensor is under the drvier side on this model, sorry about that

HighwayRepair :

There is a way for you to gain access to actual values and fault codes from your a/c control module but I do not know how. I am going to reopen this question so another expert can assist you.

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Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Marty
Marty, Mercedes Technician
Category: Mercedes
Satisfied Customers: 57,141
Experience: Bosch Certified Master Tech. Over 35 years experience.
Verified
Hi, perhaps I can help. The first thing I would do is retrieve the fault codes and actual values of the system. I've attached the procedures below. List your readings here and I'll review them for you. Start at step 3 on the actual values.

Retrieve Fault Codes
Retrieve Actual Values


Edited by eurotec on 10/3/2010 at 5:06 PM EST
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago

Cool - i went through retrieve fault codes and found the following:

 

Eb1 234

Eb1 235

E FF

E

 

 

 

Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Ok, neither of those are your problem. Can you give me the actual values with just the key on and then again with the a/c running?
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago

Ok here are the actual values - I hope these numbers mean something

 

1 37

2 34

3 37

4 37

5 43

6 83

7 09

8 62

9- 05

10 4.5

11 3.9

12 4.2

20 0.0

21 00

22 00

23 00

24 11.1

40 71

41 34

42 72

43 152

 

thank you for contining to figure this one out. I appricate it.

 

Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Are those values taken with the engine off or on?
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago

The values are with the engine in the on position but engine is not running. Should the engine be running?

 

 

 

Same numbers as above with engine running.
Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Is the air blowing cold at the moment?
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago

No - the air is warm to hot - themometer shows 100 plus coming out of vent.

Customer reply replied 12 years ago
Any ideas?
Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Sorry I had to run out. Can you get some a/c gauges on the system?
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago

Not a problem. All I have is the guage when you add freon. When ac is running cold on inside cabin the fill port is at 45 psi at the filled point. When the ac is running hot (100 plus degrees) the fill port is at 65 PSI -- the alert stage.

Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
When it's at 65, which is where I assume it is now, look to see if the a/c compressor clutch is engaged.
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago

I see the ac compressor and the belt moving the pulley - is that what I need to look for? If not, let me know to look please.

 

Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
The center of the compressor needs to be turning. Look very closely at the center of the hub and make sure it's rotating as well.
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago

Thank you.

 

The center of the compressor is spinning. Checked center and touch screw driver lightly to center and it is turning.

Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Ok Steve, I think you are either low on refrigerant or your compressor or expansion valve is bad. If you look at your actual values with the compressor running your reading at #7 is your high side refrigerant in bar. 9 bar or 135 psi is way too low. You should have the a/c system evacuated and recharged to be sure you have the correct amount of refrigerant in the system. I would not trust the gauge on the charge can but the way it looks I'd say it's going to be a bad compressor or possibly an expansion valve but I would need to see the system pressures when the air was blowing cold to be certain.
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Customer reply replied 12 years ago
Is there any way it could be the evap. temp. sensor causing this?
Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
Not if the a/c compressor is turning. When the evap sensor fails the compressor turns off.
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Mercedes Mechanic: Marty, Mercedes Technician replied 12 years ago
One other thing I thought of tonight is the possibility of a bad a/c drier. I have seen some driers plug up and restrict the flow of refrigerant. The fact that your air works well at times leads me to think that the compressor may be ok.
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