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TherapistMarryAnn, Therapist
Category: Mental Health
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Experience:  Over 20 years experience specializing in anxiety, depression, drug and alcohol, and relationship issues.
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Kate: I didn't sleep great. No nightmares, I just didn't

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Kate: I didn't sleep great. No nightmares, I just didn't sleep much.
I know I thought I wasn't feeling much yesterday. I knew they were hanging there, that something was. But once I started thinking about them, I felt a lot. Having feelings under the surface now seems to be totally different than when I used to be able to bury them. I guess that I ultimately a good thing?
I understand what you say about them. It sounds so "jr. High" for them to be doing this to make themselves feel superior. Really. It's what mean, insecure 7th grade girls do. But to that extent?? And don't they realize that feeling of superiority won't last? You say they are ill, but what is wrong with them? And is it both of them or just the mean one? I feel like they are kind of in 2 different categories. Am I right about that or wrong? How did the mean one end up that way? Was he born with some of it? Is it because he went through awful things? A combination? Do he and I have something in common that way? (but I imagine he had to have gone through some pretty long-lasting abuse). Did that make him feel better for a short time or did he just think it would? It really upsets me that, as you said, if he's not dead or hasn't been caught, he is probably still doing it. I feel bad for those who came after me. Really bad. I'm so sorry.
I know I should feel bad for what those guys probably went through to make them (or really just him) that way. I can sympathize when I think about it separately, but when I think about it in conjunction with that night, I don't. I just can't. I try. Maybe I will be able to someday, but I can't right now.
And I don't understand how the sex plays into what they needed to do to feel better. I do understand your explanation of them using it as a tool. And they had to have known that would be a particularly devastating way to hurt, right? But how did they become sexually aroused by it? Does that in itself just get the mean one off, or is it a side issue - can guys just get aroused in any situation? Or can he maybe not get aroused without the blood and inflicting pain, etc.? And does, for instance, using the bottle how they did give him more than if he had used it to stab me in the stomach or something? Do you think there was a chance he would have used the bottle another way too of I hadn't agreed to anal sex? By the way - this is totally off the subject, but is there any difference between anal sex or sodomy or do they mean the same thing?
And was there something he saw in me right off that told him I was someone he could dominate in these ways or would it have worked with anyone? As I said, I think they just planned it for someone - not necessarily me. But did they kind of have to "screen" people that night, do you think?
Man, I wish they had just cut me elsewhere or broken my arms and legs or something.
Sorry I have so many questions. My head is just a scramble this morning.
And I do know they didn't take very thing from me. But they did take some things, don't you think? And they don't know how I ended up. I could have killed myself for all they knew, and I don't think it would matter, at least to the mean one. I know I have things they don't. And I imagine they will never be at peace. So - what does that mean? They got the worse end of the deal? Maybe so. But I still am feeling sorry for myself and not so much them. I am sorry if they are ill. But I don't feel like I should have been forced to take part of that on myself. If they had AIDS, I would feel really bad for them, but it wouldn't mean it would be fair to purposely give it to me, right? And it wouldn't help them. It would just hurt me. If they would have asked for help, I would have tried to help them. But not in this way. But I guess this is what they needed. Should I try to be a bit more understanding? I thought I had forgiven them. Linda told me a long time ago that I didn't really, because I just dumped to the forgiveness part without goin through the tough path that would lead to brin able to forgive them. That I kind of forgave them without really understanding wht they had done. What do you think?
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Mental Health
Expert:  TherapistMarryAnn replied 5 years ago.


It is a very good thing that you are able to recognize that you have feelings underneath the surface. You went from repressing the feelings almost totally to recognizing that the feelings are there. It's great progress!

You are making a big assumption here- that these guys have any insight at all in their behavior. They are not like you or other people, who are willing to seek help and see that the problem is bigger than they are. That is a sign of health. These guys do not have that. They only way they will ever know they did wrong is if they are caught and punished not by their own conscience, but the legal system.

Both of these guys are in the same category. The mean one is probably the most mentally ill, though. Just participating in such an attack takes a certain level of cruelty so both men have issues beyond what a normal person would. Just think about the men you know now. Could you imagine them participating in something like what you went through, even if they did not participate as much as their partner?

It is hard to tell what is wrong with the guys that hurt you. They most likely were not born that way and were probably abused, but the way they reacted to the abuse is abnormal. So most likely it was a combination of their personalties and the abuse. Most people who are abused to not react like they did. Here is something that may help you:

Also, you need to consider that help was out there for those guys. They could have reached out if they were so hurt. You did. But they chose to hurt you instead. They were adults at the time of the attack and had choices. They were no longer being abused so they could have chosen another path and dealt with their pain another way. That means there was something fundamentally wrong with them. They may have started off as bullies when they were children and escalated from there. When someone has that much practice at hurting others, they become proficient at manipulation and vulnerability.

You have nothing in common with those guys. They may have gone through a bad childhood, but that is the extent of the connection. Many people go through abuse as children so you have that in common with millions of people.

These guys did not lash out in a normal way. It's not like they were frustrated and decided to take it out on someone. Their minds do not work the same way as normal people. They may have a mental illness, but there is a missing component, a self centerness that makes them see other people as potential victims rather than humans with rights. They probably see themselves above others.

Using sex as their tool, the idea was to dominate, cause as much pain as possible (hence the bottle) and humiliate you. Men are often turned on by domination (it is all through porn and sex books) but they do not go out and hurt women to the point of almost killing them. These guys are not normal though. The more they could hurt you and dominate, the more they were turned on. But since you did not have a choice in what was being done, the only consequence to you was pain and hurt.

Anal sex and sodomy are technically the same, but the term anal sex implies mutual agreement and sodomy is more the legal term for anal sex, indicating the anal sex was against someone's will and therefore was a crime.

This is not about you feeling sorry for them and understanding why they did what they did to you. Forgiveness may be a goal. But Linda is right, working through your feelings first would help. God would have the power to help you forgive if it's important to you to do so now. But forgiving them should be for you as a way to put this behind you. Not for them. God will deal with them.


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