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Kate McCoy let me know about your question. I believe I can help you.
A little dowsing history...
Dowsing, which in its original form was used to locate underground water sources is an oddity, but it does seems rooted in some (read, minor) peripheral science. It is a many century years old "skill".
Indeed, the human body does produce a measurable but slight electrical field. Dowsers (those who seek water with this method) use metal or wood "divination rods" to sense for disturbances in their own electrical field; and in theory, the method allows a trained dowser to locate hidden water sources. Although no one can prove why some dowsers can do this, it does appear to be a real skill that exists in a small number of people.
Now, psychologically there is nothing, and I do mean nothing, to suggest that this ability could be used to assist a person with psychological issues.
Therefore I would highly recommend to avoid anyone who says that they can local errant bodily electrical fields and then measure and counter them via pendulum, rod, crystal, magnet or any of the dozens of claimed devices that are used.
Interestingly, Franz Anton Mesmer, an early proponent of hypnosis, tried to use a similar methodology in Paris France a number of centuries ago, and even then, the scientists of the day laughed at his idea of internal magnetic forces and literally ran him out of town.
The odd science of dowsing may be useful if your looking to sink a well on your property and cannot afford a geological survey. But, to use it to treat and eliminate anxiety, depression. fear, etc., there are no legitimate sources that indicate it works.
If you wish to try an adjunct method to traditional therapy for emotional issues, diet and nutrition has been shown to be far more effective than these "bunk" therapies. In both the UK and the US a trial of pharmacy grade supplements of: 1000mg of Omega 3 per day, 10mg zinc, 100mg calcium and 100 mg of magnesium glycinate were shown to be as effective as some popular pharmaceuticals in lowering anxiety and depression. However, like all supplements, obtain your doctors permission before using any such regime.
I hope this was of assistance to you. Steven
I'll let Steve know. He was glad to help. He is very good with that kind of information!
thank you so much for your thoughtful and caring post, I read it through blurry vision as soon as I opened my eyes this morning! Yes, tired and overwhelmed, trying to be normal for the children, but feeling anything but, wanting to get away. I know being alone isn’t always the best thing, but I feel at least I haven’t got to put on a face, risk being put down, or feel paranoid about what others think or feel about me.
I know being alone I keep my feelings within, share only with you, and myself by cutting. Sometimes I don’t really understand the cutting, but by doing so I feel something in the emptiness, something that I can focus on, see, take my thoughts away from just spiralling down, I feel I’m doing something to help myself for that moment in time, but often the hurt doesn’t last long enough, and I need something new, more. It pulls me up, straightens out my thoughts, redirects me towards a better way of thinking, but takes my mind away from the issues that I should be focusing on.
I need to cut when my head feels mad, when I don't know what else to do but pick up the phone to the crisis line, or go out and take a risk, one that is in no-one's best interest but my immediate release. I cut when I need to stay in control of what I do, make me stay in my 4 walls and keep everyone safe, when I worry that I won't be capable of realising the consequences. Sometimes pills are the answer when I feel that way, but just enough to get me past the unbearable feeling of not being in control.
I need to hurt when my head feels screwed up so tight that it’s going to burst, when I’m losing sight of reality, so that I can take my mind away from the tension within, calm me down, release, relax. I hurt when I feel so bad about myself, when I can’t bear the feelings that I give myself by thinking how I have got things wrong, failed, that I’m useless, incapable, no-hoper, worthless; the hurt reduces those feelings and replaces them with something that is more bearable, that I can deal with more easily. I wish I could say how I feel, I have enormous self criticism for my shortfalls, I know I should shout and scream, voice my feelings, but I have lost the will. When I am angry and have no control over what is happening I want to vent my feelings, but instead I hide away.....I know I have caused my own downfall by not reacting in a healthy way, but kept that anger all within, allowing it to build up so much that it’s weight has pulled me down, releasing a little now and again so that I can survive ‘til the next time. I need to cut, it has helped me to cope, but no-one else must know............
Rose, your post is heartbreaking. I can literally hear the pain you are feeling, you describe it so well.
It is clear from what you wrote that you are cutting to give yourself control over your pain, the pain inflicted by others. Cutting gives you a way to not only control the pain, but inflict it on yourself under your control. I believe that you feel you deserve to be in pain so by inflicting it on yourself, you get the pain you deserve but you control it, not anyone else.
Cutting also distracts you from the pain you feel and makes you feel alive at the same time, like you said. The numbness you feel when hurt by others is a learned behavior, most likely from when you were a child and was reinforced as an adult. Feeling that amount of pain as a child would be overwhelming, so you would shut off your feelings in order to cope. It is very common with children who are abused to do this. As adults, they manifest the numbness and deep pain underneath by many behaviors, including fears and phobias, depression, drug and alcohol abuse and cutting behavior.
You said that you also feel that you are worthless. This is also a taught behavior. As a child, you were taught that you were not valuable. Most children take that in and believe it because their only source for this information is their parents. Now Dave confirms it as well with his behavior. Now, as an adult, our job is to help you learn that the message was false and not about you but about your parents (and Dave) projecting their own issues onto you.
Think about it this way. Would you say the things said to you as a child to Poppy or Sam? Why or why not? If you would not, what do you think it would take to get you to say those things to them? How would you have to feel towards them?
This gives you a picture of what it takes to treat your children the way you were treated. This is what your parents felt about themselves and instead of dealing with it, the projected it onto you. And you had no choice but to believe it.
Cutting yourself is much like putting a band aid on a gushing cut. It may seem like a good solution or even a helpful one, but in the long run it does nothing. I wanted to explore some alternatives for you to think about. That way, you have some options before you cut again.
Keep a rubber band around your wrist. Snap it when you think of cutting. Also, use a piece of ice to "cut" with when you have the urge. Both of these ideas will give you the immediate sensation of pain but without the actual cutting.
What are some other things you can try to help substitute for cutting? I am not suggesting that you start substituting now, unless you feel ready for to do that. I just want to start introducing the idea of alternatives so when we get to that point when you feel ready, you won't feel it is too strange.
Let me know what you think,
I am glad you wrote back tonight. It is good to hear from you, always.
Wow, Rose. Dave's cruelty towards you knows no bounds. It is amazing that he could be that way towards you and say such things about you and your mother. I am sorry.
Pushing aside feelings from childhood is very typical for abused children. Who wants to face dragging all of those feelings around when you don't know what to do with them? Burying them is easier. Then you can face life and try to live. But what happens instead is all of those unresolved feelings- the hurt and pain- surface in other ways. It is like a float that will not stay under water. You can hold it down but sooner or later, it escapes your hold and shoots back up to the surface.
I remember you talking about your childhood, how you felt and your relationship with your mother. I was wondering about your ideal mother. How often do you think about her? Or do you think of her at all? Picture her being with you now. What would she say and/or do? How involved would she be in your life? And how to you feel about it?
We have talked about your ideal childhood some but thinking about it now and allowing the feelings in is important now. Some of your past is surfacing and although it is painful, it is also good. It is good because going through the pain is always better than burying it or channeling it it other ways. It hurts, but on the other side is healing. By picturing your ideal mother, you see what should have been compared to what is now. This contrast will help you see what you are missing, the gaps in your feelings.
It is good that you are starting to face what is behind the wall. I understand you are scared. That is also a very common reaction. But it is ok. Think of it as the pain that you have always lived with just never dealt with. It has been there and you have reacted to it. The cutting, the pain, sorrow and anxiety are all symptoms of what is behind the wall. Facing the pain gets rid of the symptoms and helps you deal with the real problem.
I believe your trouble speaking with people like K and others is about anxiety. It is also self esteem. Being judged is part of it as well. Also, I believe that you do not trust you are intelligent enough or maybe not worthy enough to speak out, which could not be further from the truth. Just by your written word, you certainly are intelligent and we both know you are definitely worthy. It is a matter of believing for you to be able to speak to others with confidence. I think as your issues get addressed, your confidence will grow and the speech problem will reduce or go away completely. I am not sure why it occurs with family. It may be that it is ingrained so much at this point that you may not be able to control it.
I understand the closeness with Sam that you have. I feel the same with my son. The hours of therapy, searching for answers, doctor's appointments, etc. all create this world that only the two of you understand. You advocated for your son and worked extremely hard to see that he got the best you could offer. And he did. But that does not mean you are not human. Breaking down would be normal. Keeping up that pace would not be. No person can do it all without support, which is what you had to do. But you did it and Sam benefited. You are an excellent mother to your kids. Let me put it this way, would your parents have done the same for you? I wonder.
What happened with your safe house? I am sorry that you may lose it. I sure hope not.
Dave caused shouting matches with Sam? I am sorry to hear that. How do you feel about it? I could not imagine facing the possibility of such a scene each time Dave came home. It must be very hard on you and the kids.
I had to smile when you talked about walking with the dogs and Poppy and collecting blackberries for crumble tomorrow. It put such nice pictures in my mind of a cozy home with wonderful food and a welcoming scene. It sounds lovely.
I know it is late where you are so I hope you are getting some much deserved rest. I will be around tomorrow off and on because of obligations but I will write as soon as I can. You are always in my thoughts, Rose.
I loved your comment about Labor Day! These days, it should be about unemployment with how the economy is. But it is really about labor unions and the betterment of the worker. Most Americans see it as a day off and the end of summer, though.
Summer is still going strong here. Yesterday was almost 100 degrees. Ugh. But it is supposed to drop into the 60's by tomorrow and stay there all week. The first break in the weather. I'm quite happy about it.
It sounds like you have tried a lot of options to stop cutting. I have to agree with you, you should feel ready to stop cutting in order for the methods to be fully effective. Finding something that can be a substitute for cutting would help. It could not involve hurting yourself severely, but something that can give you the same sensation. And it is all about the gradual decreasing of behavior rather that just coming to an all out stop. Suddenly stopping most likely will not work and would just make the situation worse. As you said, you feel great anxiety when you cannot cut and do not have any alternatives. There is a reason for that.
Cutting creates an endorphine rush that flows into your system. In turn, that gives you a morphine like feeling that is chemically induced in your body when you cut. It is much like a drug addict with trying to get sober. When the person tries to stay away from the drug, it creates a craving. Taking the drug gives them the release they are looking for. It answers the addiction and creates calm. It is the same with cutting.
Finding an alternative that can help you stop is what would help. Cognative restructuring, for example, would help you activate another part of your brain that could take over from the current area that is rewarding you for cutting. Prayer, singing, or any activity that could fire another area of you brain may help.
Also, you need at least two weeks of not cutting in order to allow the "addiction" center of your brain to reduce. This gives your brain time to restructure and stops the stimulation of the cutting area and the subsequent endorphines that are produced when you cut.
Along with addressing your other issues of self esteem and abuse, you could find healthier areas to vent your feelings. But this can occur only when you feel ready. Otherwise, it is not going to work. I know you want to stop cutting and that is good. There just needs to be substitutes set up so you can.
It seems the kids have developed a way of coping with Dave's outbursts. Have they told you much about how they feel about Dave as a parent? It seems Sam at least feels strongly about how Dave treats you.
Has Dave ever talked about becoming sober? I imagine at this point he might be in denial over his drinking but I was hoping that maybe he might have some insight. Have you done any work with K about co dependency? Dealing with an alcoholic has many problems that affects everyone around them.
Rose (no umlaut on my computer!) wine, eh? Sounds like you are having some fun! Good for you. It is very relaxing to have time alone to enjoy yourself, especially when it involves baking. Let me know how the crumble turns out.
Whenever you are ready to talk about mom, that is fine. Have a good night, Rose.
I'm sorry you have lost your place. I hope that you are able to reconsider it again in the future if things change. You need a safe place to go for peace.
Your home does sound like a wonderful place (sans the house mate)! If you would feel comfortable, I would love to see pictures someday.
Good night and sweet dreams, Rose.
Good morning Rose! Though for you it's already afternoon, isn't it?! Thank you for wishing me a Happy Labor Day.
I hope your day is going well. I will watch for your post later today.
It is nice to know that your kids are just getting back to school. Most kids here started back the end of last month, but two of my kids do not go back until this Friday and my high schooler goes back Monday. The high school is being renovated so there has been a lot of shuffling around and much angst over it this past year!
I am sorry. I didn't mean to overwhelm you with my questions and input. I sometimes get on a roll! But it is fine if you do not feel that some of the things we talk about need addressed right away. Some of it can be food for thought too.
Thank you so much for saying so many nice things about our older posts and my responses. I enjoy talking with you and want to provide as much information as I can to help you. But I do miss the mark so if I ever do, I am counting on you to straighten me out!
It does sound odd that cutting can cause a physical reaction. But most things we do have some type of physical reaction in us. I was just thinking how much going to an amusement park makes most people feel happy (especially since it is rainy and cold here today!). It is the endorphines in our system that causes the "feel good" sensation we get. And I think most people find those feelings addictive. Who doesn't want to feel that good all of the time? But cutting produces the same feeling for you. And understanding why it makes you feel good can go a long way in helping you wean yourself from it and find other ways to cope. Ways that make you feel just as good but that are less harmful. I agree, the band is available. And easy to use. Maybe you could try using a smaller thickness and see if you can wean yourself off the thicker one. Everything in moderation, one step at a time.
I am glad you had a good visit with Mark. He seems to find you easy to talk to. But it also sounds like he is not understanding your view of being with him while you are both married. I wonder if he feels because you are vulnerable in your situation that you would be easily persuaded to join him. How are you feeling about his persistence?
Difficulty speaking to others can be the social anxiety and the introversion or both. The part that I am intrigued by is your lack of difficulty when you have a scrip in front of you or things are written out or are clear in direction. You do just fine then. Which says to me that the difficulty comes from your beliefs about yourself rather than trouble speaking to others.
Sam and Poppy sound like they have figured Dave out. They understand the limits, boundaries and what he is about. Their insights are quite good. Do you feel they would benefit from Al anon? It would help them both understand about alcoholism, why Dave drinks and acts the way he does and it may help prevent Sam and Poppy from becoming alcoholics themselves, which is a risk with having an alcoholic parent.
I am sorry that you had such a time in Al anon yourself. There are other options for you if you feel Al anon is too much right now. Here are some things that might help:
http://www.ola-is.org/- online Al anon support
Courage to Change: One Day at a Time in Al-Anon II by Al-Anon Family Group Head Inc
Bradshaw On: The Family: A New Way of Creating Solid Self-Esteem by John Bradshaw
Facing Codependence: What It Is, Where It Comes from, How It Sabotages Our Lives by Pia Mellody, Andrea Wells Miller and J. ***** *****
There is nothing wrong with working on this issue at home and using self help instead of in person meetings. And when you feel stronger, you can consider going outside your home for help.
I like the Lordship title you bestowed upon Dave! I recognize the feeling very well.
I will talk with you soon, Arnold!
Thank you for sharing your feelings about Dave with me. You expressed your feelings so well. I can understand your reluctance to face Dave and deal with him. His personality gets in the way (I was feeling overwhelmed and needed to take a deep breath just reading about it.) I can think of several adjectives to describe his behavior (I know that can be taken another way, but I'm being nice here!) but I wondered if you want to have a go at it. What words to you feel describe how Dave acts? I think getting into this deeper would provide a clearer picture of how you feel and what we can do to help you get out, if that is what you want to do. Otherwise, we can work on changing your response to Dave so you can be yourself and not have the same response to his issues.
I can see K's point of view about Dave stealing your voice. He most likely does that with everyone he has contact with, I imagine. What I would like to try is exploring what causes you to let him take your voice? This is something we have been looking at for a while now and if you feel ready, we can dig a bit deeper. What do you think?
Please do not feel I do not have time for anything you need to tell me. Rose, I am here for you. I like talking to you, and I get a lot out of helping you. You can tell me whatever you feel you need to. It's just us working these problems out. Me and you, together. We were put together for a reason and I truly believe that it is meant to be. And I would not be here if I did not want to be.
Oh yes, I understood you were joking before. I think I phrased my response a bit too seriously, which I tend to do :) Sorry about that.
I do agree about Mark. He seems to have let his guard down again and I imagine that he decided to do so when he found out that leaving his family was not going to be possible. He is looking for an escape from his situation, whether it be through a divorce or an affair, it may not matter which. I think if he understood the pressure you are under, he would realize he is adding to it. He just may feel too desperate to see it. Helping you with the laundry is very nice of him (and I imagine something that is new to you since Dave probably does not do such things). I wonder about Mark's motives. What do you think?
So Sam has got himself a car. That first taste of freedom. I can understand your feelings about that, Mom! I have one who is almost that age and I think I will grow a head full of gray hair when she first goes out on her own (more gray than I have now just from raising them). Yes, I do think that Sam's ADD probably contributes to his difficulty with impulse control. People with ADD act before thinking, it is just part of the diagnosis. But he is also a teenager and that has it's own impulsivity right there. Teenagers are naturally prone to more accidents and not thinking through their decisions. So it probably is not all ADD. The medication will calm him down, probably a lot. But it also depends on his level of ADD. He does not sound like he has a severe case to me so he may need less.
I do have to give your idea some thought. I do not want to lose our connection, which could happen, so it is something I need to ponder.
Have a good night, Rose. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. If you feel up to it, let me know how your therapy with K goes.
I am so sorry to hear that, Rose. Anytime you need to talk, I'm here. I hope a good night's sleep helps you to feel better.
You're in my thoughts,
Thank you! I would not usually respond again (I know I always look like I'm trying to get the last word in!) but if I don't, JA leaves your question open on the queue as a reply to me. I know that makes you uncomfortable so I need to respond last so that doesn't happen to you. Otherwise, I'd be very happy with your response being the last one
Oh Rose, two beautiful gifts! Thank you! Your poem touched my heart. I could feel the tears making their way to my eyes. You write so well. You should really think about publishing your work.
Your kids, oh my. I bet you are so proud. Sam is so tall! And Poppy is gorgeous! What a blessing they must be to you.
I imagine that when you noticed your habit of thumb sucking coming back, you may have felt a need to be comforted. I think the two coincide. What do you feel about it?
Get some rest. We have plenty of time to work whenever you feel ready. I hope your day goes very smoothly tomorrow and you have an easy (and painless) time of it.
Good night and I will talk with you soon,
That is a terrible way to live. Having to hide from Dave for some peace. I am sorry it is that awful and you have to live like that. If we had more time before your session, I would be interested to hear more about how you are feeling.
It sounds like work was a bit of a challenge today but you probably did much better than you thought. We are often more critical of ourselves (especially if our self esteem is low) than others are. It is great you are feeling stronger though!
Two out of six kisses is great! I would take that as a good sign that you were well loved today!
Your session with K will go well. Don't worry about what you say or how you sound. K is a therapist and she is there to help. She likes you and wants the best for you. If you want, tell her about the situation with Dave today and your fears and thoughts about it. You carry some heavy duty stress dealing with him, and it could take up most of your time just exploring the feelings from how you must live.
Let me know how it goes. I'm thinking of you!
Just an FYI, I tried to send this and JA lost my answer so I am resending it. I think the site is having trouble. So if you don't get a response from me tonight (and I will be on to check for you) then try again. Sorry about that!
Thanks for letting me know what happened in your session with K. It sounds like you had a very productive session! I have to agree, it is important to you to not repeat your mother's behavior with you with your children. It shows you to be strong, intelligent and resilient to raise your children completely different than you were raised. That is something to be proud of.
It was a good idea K had to tell Dave that you were away. I understand your reluctance to tell a fib. It does put you between a rock and a hard place and again makes you feel like the bad guy in this scenario. But you also have to protect yourself.
Dave was using drugs in your home. How do you feel about that?
You remembered my kids go to school tomorrow? Wow, I'm impressed! I do have one staying home but it is my oldest so she is mostly easy to care for :) She goes back on Monday. Are your kids liking school? Any news on Sam's situation?
Have a good night!
You had me laughing! I could easily spend most of the evening talking with you. I enjoy the heck out of our talks! But unfortunately, sleep is necessary, for both of us.
I think nothing of the sort about you Rose! I hope I did not word my thoughts so it came out that way. I apologize if I did. But I do understand how you feel about the situation with Dave and how difficult it is. Yes, most people to think, gee, why don't you just leave? But it is not that easy. People are complex, not robots with no feelings. These things take time and work.
I was more interested in what you felt about what Dave is doing. Your feelings are important in this situation. It also ties in with what K mentioned- Dave stealing your voice. Do you feel you have a voice in what Dave is doing?
It sounds like Poppy and Sam are doing very well! Spanish is a good language to learn. It seems to be very popular. And I am happy to hear Sam was accepted. Good news, indeed! He should do very well.
I will talk with you tomorrow. Have sweet dreams,
Hi Rose, good afternoon!
Yes, thinking of yourself that way is painful. It is hard to see yourself as others see you when you have been taught otherwise. Realizing that Dave's actions are not about who you are is important. They are about him, and only him. The only thing I want to know is how it affects you and what we can do to work together to help you. That is hard to take in, but so important.
Sounds like Sam is ready to go! How exciting! I know the kids don't feel the same way, though!
Yes, my two did fine this morning. They take buses to school. We have very busy roads at home so it would be too dangerous for them to walk. But the schools are close so I am thankful for that.
Lift means ride by car, right? How American am I being right now !
I will check in tonight,
Sorry about that! It is so frustrating when that happens. It does it to me once in a while too.
I need to catch some dinner so I will check back. I hope that is ok.
Sorry I am late getting back to you. I needed to go out to help family with a project and we got stuck there for a while.
We did have a nice dinner. Sort of all on our own tonight, pick what you want kind of thing. I'll do that if we have leftovers. The kids enjoy trying to get away with not eating their veggies! We only eat dinner, no tea. I would love to have tea. What is that like?
I would love to hear what you find different about what I say compared to what you are used to. I am curious what sounds different to you. I have always enjoyed hearing English accents. I grew up in the South, where the accent is derived from the original English settlers and I had friends from the UK. Part of my family is from County Claire in Ireland and some are from the UK but I have no idea what part. Of course, I am like you. My exposure to other places is limited to what I see here. But I do order my candy from the UK. My husband is a huge fan of pontefract cakes and they don't make them here. And American liquorice is awful!
The States do have different accents. Where I grew up in the South even, there are different accents. The accent in Virginia is much lighter than the one in Georgia. But to a Northerner (or Yankee as we call them), all Southerners sound alike. Northerners have an odd accent that I'm not sure how to describe. Listen to John F. Kennedy, the American President from the 1960's, and you will see what I mean! He was a Yankee. People in Florida kind of have a mixture, with a heavy influence from Mexico and Cuba. Westerners usually either have a slight cowboy/Southern accent or none at all.
I would enjoy hearing your accent too! The Queen's English sounds very formal. I always enjoyed listening to Princess Diana speaking, if that is an example. She was quite popular here in the States.
The situation with Dave is difficult. He gives you no recourse because each time you try to set a rule down, he blames you for trying to enforce it. So trying to change him or his behavior is a not possible. He is too involved at this point to want to change and he does not have the motivation. Not when he can spend most days living without responsibilities and practically on your dime.
So the only thing that can change in this situation is you. You are already working on self esteem, which is great. It will help you gain the strength you need when you do decide if you want to leave. But there needs to be more at this point. I think you are ready to make some small changes to move you towards independence from Dave, whether that is leaving the relationship or changing it so it is bearable for you.
What do you feel would be a good first step? It can be something like starting to identify different responses to Dave's behavior (i.e. you take the car keys and he finds another way to the pub) to separating your money from his and allowing him to suffer the consequences of his spending habits. Those are only examples. This needs to be something you feel you can accomplish without too much anxiety. If you experience too much anxiety with it, it will be too hard to do.
The numbness you are feeling when dealing with Dave is most likely your need to shut off your feelings. Dealing with Dave's behavior is overwhelming and does not allow for you to have feelings. Dave shuts you down and you may also shut yourself down for protection. You become a non entity that just reacts and survives. Finding your voice again, to borrow from K, is primary. It may not matter to Dave, but it matters to you and your wellbeing. Have you and K worked on this yet? I don't want to step on any toes here.
Do you know if you are allowed to order Melotonin on line? Two places you may want to try is Kirkman Labs here in the U.S. www.kirkmanlabs.com or Walmart. I know Walmart has it for sure because that is where I get our supply.
Have a good night Rose. I look forward to talking to you soon.
Wow Rose, I learned more in just your first two paragraphs than I have in all my life! Very interesting.
How long have you and K worked together, if you don't mind my asking?
Yes, I think most Americans watched the Royal wedding. I was in high school at the time and I got up to watch it. It was about 4 am for us. Not too bad! But Diana had everyone here entranced and still does to some extent. She was an interesting person. I don't pay too much mind to all the hype over the Royals but it does draw you in somewhat, especially when it is everywhere you look!
Diana's pronouncation was very good but to most Americans we can't tell much difference with the accents. I can hear the more cockney accent compared to the Queen's English but beyond that, it sounds mostly the same. When you mentioned speaking without an accent, I could not imagine what that sounds like! To my ear, all English people have an accent. But I imagine Americans must sound the same to you.
Thank you for the explanation of Tea. I have always wanted to understand it better. They do sell Devonshire cream here in the specialty/international section of the grocery store. I've had it and really liked it. Very thick but addicting! I also like Digestives which I keep on hand at home. They are wonderful with tea and for the kids when they get upset tummies!
I've made scones before with marmalade but nowadays I don't have too much time to indulge in baking like I used to. They do have Tea here, mostly in places like New York at the fancier restaurants. Little girls can have "Tea" parties for birthdays, again at the higher end places. But for the most part, we have dinner at night and a light snack maybe before bed and that's it. Quite boring! Some people from Europe still have a formal dinner at noon then a light supper at night. My husband's family did it that way. They were immigrants from Germany.
Yes, some people in the US have family from Europe. But we do have quite a mixture nowadays. There are lots of Mexicans, a good portion illegal, which is becoming almost an epidemic and a main topic in government. There are many from India, lots from Italy and China. It depends on what part of the country you are in as to what you see. The European influence is becoming less and is being blended out with the influx of other cultures. We also have African Americans, who are descendants of the original slaves, not a proud part of American history. The number of different cultures can cause some conflicts which is a hot topic here, but for the most part, people get along. The same in any democracy.
Sweet shoppes in the UK are wonderful! We have some stores here, but few and far between. Being from the South, I have a horrible sweet tooth and UK sweets are far better than American sweets. I mostly buy from this site: http://www.candysweetstore.com/. They sell the pontefract cakes cheapest so far. But I like to try just about anything because it is different than the standard sweets we have here.
I also get my soap from the UK. They make the best lavender soap around.
You may also want to try GNC here in the States for the Melotonin, if you cannot find it at home.
Dave is going to manage a bar. While I agree with you that it is something that appeals to him, it must be hard for you to hear. Putting an alcoholic right in with the alcohol is a train wreck waiting to happen. What do you feel about this decision he has made? Did he discuss it with you or did you have any input about it? Given Dave's history, I imagine that you were not consulted but you should have been.
I hope your day goes well at work. I will be thinking of you!
Whew. I'm glad it was the most recent royal wedding. I was about to get worried!
It sounds like you and K have built a very solid relationship. I am glad you have her there for you. I can tell she means a lot to you.
That Rose you are talking about, the nurse that was so on today, is you. Separating the confident part of you from the low self esteem part of you is a way for you to not face that you can be confidence all the time. You choose when you are confidence. As a nurse, you know your stuff. You can afford to be "on" because you choose to feel confident in your knowledge and skill.
The trouble comes when you decide that you are not good in certain areas. As much as it is about feeling, it is also about thought. What you think about yourself is how you feel about yourself. If you believe that you are good at something, you have a much better chance of excelling and building your confidence in that area. It doesn't mean you have to be the best, ***** ***** have to think you are good enough. And you can do that. You are smart and resourceful.
Yes, you should be asked about Dave and his decisions. That is a balanced relationship. You knew that earlier on in your marriage when you tried to balance what Dave was doing with what was normal. He just avoided it, lied about it or outright defied you. He does not recognize normal behavior. So you gave up. To keep trying would have been too hard, just like you said. But that does not mean it is right. Looking at what should be helps you see what is not there. That is important. Unless you see it, you will settle for the status quo and pull yourself down more. And that is what Dave is counting on. He wants you to conform to his dysfunctional behavior and uses his influence with you to get you to do what he wants. He is bullying you. That is not something you need to accept.
You are completely normal with your feelings. You have shut down to protect yourself, a very healthy way to react to abuse. Many of the abuse survivors I have worked with shut down in one form or another to cope. It does not mean you don't have feelings, you just don't have them towards Dave. And you also must protect yourself in your own home. So you cannot be yourself in a place where you are supposed to be able to be yourself. But you have feelings towards Sam and Poppy, you have them about your work, and you are certainly fine with me and with K. That tells me that you are healthy. I think if you were able to get away from Dave, you would find that part of yourself coming back, probably slowly, but surely.
Feeling worried about Dave coming home is part of being traumatized over and over. He is uncontrollable to you, so you react instead of acting. That is how abuse works for anyone in your situation. Is there any way you feel you could act to gain some control over your situation? You cannot control Dave so controlling yourself and your situation is the best way to help yourself. What are your choices for responding to Dave at times like these?
Yum, now I'm hungry from reading your list! I love the coconut sweets too. I better get on the ball and order before Christmas.
I am sorry to hear that it is so hard to get the Melotonin. Hopefully, the site you found will allow you to order it without trouble. Let me know what happens.
Have a good day!
Rose, it sounds like K is a wonderful advocate for you! I am so glad you have her. She definitely has your best interest at heart.
Absolutely, it is fine for you to be talking with me as well! Usually, having two therapists talking with one person is not recommended. But in your situation, I think K addresses one need and I can be there for whatever else you need. As you said, our talks help you address needs of the moment, whereas K can help you with longer term goals and needs such as advocating for the right medications. However, if you ever feel anything you hear from us is conflicting or we overwhelm you with a topic, please say so. I know K wants you to feel you are getting the best from her. And I feel the same. So we need you to tell us what you need and when.
Knowing that you are just as good as anyone else is takes time. Yes, it is scary. You are used to believing that you are lower than others. Although that is painful, it is also safe. I understand your hesitancy to put yourself out there because you feel it is risky. As an introvert, it is natural to want to stay in yourself. Also, I believe after getting to know you that you have a lot of pain you need to hide. You feel sensitive to others and their moods and feelings, especially if you feel they reflect on you. Projecting your feelings of low self worth onto others and feeling that they see you as you see yourself is common for people with low self esteem. After all, how can they think well of you if you are not worthy? But that is a misconception that you have about yourself. What you believe about yourself is not what others believe. Most people are too preoccupied with their own issues to even be concerned with what is going on with you so your projection is about how you feel and is not accurate.
I think part of the issue here is that you have been surrounded by people who are narcissistic and who are very critical of you your whole life. Because you were raised by people who found fault with you and now you are married to someone who finds fault with you, then it is easy to believe that others in your world will also find fault with you. But what if you were raised by parents who thought the world of you? What if they were fair, accepted you for who you were, encouraged you with your choices in life and were full of love in their treatment of you? Think of how you treat Poppy and Sam. Do you think poorly of them? What happens when they do something wrong? How do you react? What if they told you that they felt you didn't like them and you thought they were useless? How would you react?
Also, imagine you were in a marriage where your husband respected you. He took care of you, talked to you about your problems, laughed with you and thought the world of you. How would you feel about yourself then? Would you find that acceptable?
You are doing great, Rose! Your feelings will emerge as we work on this and you will feel more whole as time goes on. Changing your thoughts about yourself will help you change how you feel about yourself. But this takes time. You are used to thinking one way your whole life. Seeing things from another perspective can pull you out of the place you are in and set you on a new path.
It's getting late for you so if I don't hear from you tonight I'll be here tomorrow. Have a good night, Rose!
Good morning, Rose!
I hope I didn't cause you a fright! I'm sorry if I did. There is no way I'm going anywhere until you feel you are ready to get rid of me!
I hope work goes well. Let me know how it went with Mark.
Yeah, Sam! I'm happy to hear his first day went so well. Did he have a favorite subject today? What is his school like?
I am sorry that your day was so hard at work. It sounds like the fibromyalgia is getting worse. What are your treatments and do they help? Do you have anything at home that helps?
You are too funny, Rose! Thank you for the laugh. Swinging from the trees happy...I will have to borrow that! Growing old together sounds lovely
Do you feel Dave is getting worse? You mentioned his all day bender. Is he usually like that? Do you mind if I ask how old Dave is? And how long he has been drinking? My concern is for his health. I have worked with alcoholics that drank so much they could not even function anymore. I am hoping that Dave is not headed that way, but it sounds like it could be. That could put a huge burden on you. You may need to plan ahead if you end up staying in your marriage, or maybe even if you don't. The kids will need your help since they would be next of kin.
I could not imagine what it is like for you waking up to Dave's mess. He really dumps on you. Like you said, it is like having another child, except Sam and Poppy are considerate and care for you. Dave does not. How are you feeling after seeing what Dave left for you to deal with?
Mark seems to be putting the pressure on. What is your response to him when he brings up his feelings about you? I know you mentioned you told him before about how you felt. Are you repeating the same response to him or have you changed your response?
I'm sorry to ask so many questions. It just gives me more of a global picture of the situation and in particular, of your feelings about what you are going through. It is important that we work towards increasing your self esteem which will help you feel you have some power in these situations.
Yes, my oldest had a good day first at school thank goodness! She had a rough year last year so I was praying that this year would be easier. She loves all of her classes and the school is finally caught up to the 21st century with computers and Promethean boards. She has a BioMed class she is thrilled about, right up your alley!
I hope you get a chance to rest tomorrow while your patient gets pampered. You deserve some down time. Let me know what you end up doing. It would be nice if you could get pampered right along with your patient. I bet the hairdresser is quite good, with a flair!
Take care, Rose! I'll talk with you soon,
Salty air, coffee, carrot cake (yum, I love carrot cake!) and alone time? It sounds absolutely divine! How long do you think it would take me to get there?
You handled the irate relative very well. Not all people can stay calm in a situation like that. It takes a special person to focus and get the job done while under pressure. Being shaky afterward is so normal too. I've been in situations like that before and I took a while to calm down. And it can stay with you for a day or two even. It is traumatic and upsetting. Each event you are exposed to like that traumatizes you. You may be used to it, but I think that you have defenses you have built up against such attacks that it may not seem to affect you. But it did, and that is good. It means you aren't so removed from the trauma that you don't feel anything. It is ok that you thought about taking some medication. The point is that you did not. Thinking about something and not doing it is ok. Doing it is something else.
Thinking about a substitute for cutting is an excellent idea. You need to substitute those feelings. I am touched that thinking of our talks helps you so much. If it would comfort you, my favorite stone is a sapphire. Is there a favorite stone you have? You could add it to the necklace then have the two of us together. What do you think?
No stress?!! That is funny. Good luck on that one. That is kind of silly. Life is stressful. Reducing your stress may be more possible. But stopping it is not.
Thank you for explaining your fibro. I am sorry you have to live with this disorder. It cannot make your life easy day to day. I hope the doctors are able to give you medication that can help, either more and something else.
Dave is not affected by his father dying such a horrible death, then he may not be seeing his alcohol addiction at all. That is some heavy duty denial.
I am glad Poppy and Sam are doing so well. They sound like great kids!
I am off to pick up mine from the bus stop. I will check back later to see if you are on. I will also look into the alcohol withdrawal for you. I have some books and papers on it so if you do not find an answer, I'll get one for you. Just for information- how long has Dave been drinking?
Talk to you soon,
Oh that is so frustrating. Sorry to hear that. I hope your skype is up and running again soon. Were you trying to talk to K? I hope you got your session in.
I looked into alcohol withdrawal. I used to work as an drug and alcohol counselor but it's been a while and I'm a little rusty so it took me a bit to review. So here goes:
Withdrawal symptoms begin within 5 to 10 hours after the last drink. They do include the symptoms you described with Dave- the shakiness, nausea, vomiting and overall feeling of sickness. If Dave is drinking every day, then he is going to need that next drink within a few hours just to keep himself from getting sick.
He really needs to detox and get off the alcohol before it kills him. We both know that his denial will prevent that, but if he could ever break through, it would be good to catch this earlier rather than later. I have worked with people that drank their whole lives and got to the point that when they could not get alcohol within a few hours, they drank after shave instead. I don't mean to scare you. And I'm sure you know as a nurse what it does after so many years.
I understand your need to keep from being too dependent on Dave. Preparing to leave someday, you must think through all your options. I can see that. But if you can get him to help on some things, it would give you a desperately needed break. You work so hard already. I worry for you.
Have a good night, Rose. Sweet dreams.
Good morning to you too! It's early here so I'm just trying to get my brain working.
You're welcome for the information on Dave's withdrawal. I wanted to get that to you before the day's end.
I hope your day improves. Bad days are awful. There seems to be more of them lately for some reason.
I'll be back later to check in. Talk to you then,
It sounds awful that you have to hide in your room while Dave is home. What a way to live. I am sorry. I think you are right, if that is what your life has come to for you to get some peace, then it is time to think about your future. It is hard to face making big changes though. I understand. The decision is on you. That alone is enough to make you feel staying might be easier. You do have me and K, though. Whatever I can do to make it easier to deal with how you are feeling, I'm here.
You don't necessarily need to confront Dave about his drinking. It depends on what you feel would come out of it. Would he listen? Would it have an effect? How do the kids factor in? Would it cause more trouble for you? And the big question, do you feel if he listened and stopped drinking, could you stay with him?
In Dave's situation, you might be better off trying an intervention if your goal is to get him to stop using. I don't know if you have tried one before, but in cases where the person is so addicted and in denial they refuse to see anything, intervention can make a difference. If you think it is worth a try and I can help with more information, let me know.
I hope the situation with getting your script and the Cymbalta works out ok without any problems. Medications are so much fun, aren't they?!
I'll talk with you soon,
Rose, I agree with you. Dave has been using a long time. Yes, Dave does have a life but he is not living it. He is wasting it on alcohol. He is in denial not so much about using alcohol but about the damage it is causing. He also does not want to live his life sober. I think that in order to deal with life, he uses alcohol to numb himself. It is very typical for an alcoholic to use reasons like Dave did to excuse their behavior. Because to give up using would mean facing who he is and what he is doing to his life and family.
It also takes a good dose of narcissism to keep the denial going. That is what helps Dave continue to treat you poorly and not think a thing of it. It also makes him feel anger when all of you won't listen to his monologue about the Moors habitation of Spain. He feels he is the center of the universe and everyone else is secondary. And it will not change unless he decides to change it.
Good for the kids for not giving in to Dave's temper tantrums! It is good that they learn some sort of defense against behavior such as this. They also need to know they have rights. Dave is their father, but it does not give him the right to hurt them. Finding that fine line is difficult but something they can learn.
It is great that you have boundaries with Dave now. I know I've mentioned this before, but settling a boundary here or there, slowly, helps you gain control and makes it easier if you decide to leave. Settling the bank account issue will give you a good portion of control and make Dave face up to his use of you for an income. Also, not cleaning up his area is wonderful. It takes a big burden off you. I also understand your need to see his messes all around. If it gives you the incentive to think about protecting yourself and getting out of the situation, then it is a good choice.
Co dependency is when someone has a relationship that is destructive in some way to themselves. The relationships are one sided, are abusive and can involve drug and/or alcohol addiction. Co dependency is usually a learned behavior from childhood and is from watching or being exposed to a similar relationship in the family. Co dependency occurs when someone is exposed to abusive behavior and feels pain, shame and anger that is ignored by themselves and their partner. The focus of the family becomes the person who is addicted or abusive. The family centers around his/her behavior and all others in the family lose identity and rights. The co dependent person has low self esteem and a deep feeling of being needed to feel worthy. This causes a cycle in the family of the abusive/addicted person using the co dependent partner to "care" for them and therefore helping the co dependent person feel needed in return. The cost of this is the co dependent persons individuality and self esteem.
At this point, you no longer quite fit the bill for a person who is a full co dependent. You see the problem for what it is and are working to get out. This removes you from co dependent to regaining your self esteem and re establishing the family as a unit away from the damage of Dave's behavior. But some of the characteristics of co dependents and how to cope with them may help you to gain more insight and strength to deal with your situation.
If you feel you want to work on co dependency, we can. It is up to you.
My best times on Just Answer are usually early afternoon (for me) and early evening. My schedule varies a lot depending on what is going on that day. But I want you to feel free to write anytime. I will write you as soon as I can. I am always interested in talking with you!
Your time away sounds wonderful. I am glad you have something to look forward to and some time to think and rest. Please, if you don't mind, let me know when you will be out of contact. Just a line or so to let me know. I would worry if you didn't write!
You have such interesting history where you are. We only have colonies and wars and only go back a little over 200 years! It is interesting, but not as interesting as yours.
I don't really have a favorite semi precious stone. I wish I could tell you something, sorry. I like blue so anything blue is usually what I pick.
Take care Rose and have a good night.
How are you? Thank you so much for all your input. I was thinking today as I was driving, feeling like a person looking in on my home situation, and feeling oddly separate from it (for that moment in time), that it is not a good place to be. However I don't feel, being in it, that I have grasped how horrible it is to that someone looking in, I am trying to lessen it's stress on me by thinking that it's not so bad, but if it was someone else that was telling me of their troubles, I would think it a more unpleasant than I feel it is. That doesn't explain how I feel very well, but maybe you get my drift!!
I'm in our neighbours cottage (the one we used to own before we converted the barn), they are away. Just done with therapy, I'm very low today. I am at that wall, and in a muddle, big big muddle. A friend, Cathy came by this afternoon and wanted to know how things were going. She says I must get out for Poppy, she is confused, she had confided in her daughter that she was worried about what was going to happen. But she doesn't seem to want to talk to me, maybe she is afraid of what I will say. Cathy said I am not very open, I don't share well. If only she knew how hard I find it. But I will talk to Poppy this weekend.
I went to The House of Marbles this afternoon to find something to have and to hold that is blue!! I have 2 lovely blue marbles, and 2 red.
Both the red are the same type. They fit nicely in my hand (2) and I can spin them round each other. I also got a keyring with pretty blue glass that spins on a central column. I couldn't find a picture of it, but it is very pretty. I will have them in my pocket at work tomorrow.
Cathy asked me if I was going away next week while Poppy was present. I hadn't had a chance to talk to her about it. She mentioned it at Supper time, and Dave wanted to know all about it. Who are you going with. I said just me. He said I don't think that's a very good idea. Well tough, that's what I'm doing, and I want to be alone. I going to look in to mobile internet this weekend so that I can still be in touch, don't think you're having time off too Kate!! No, seriously, I'm getting a dongle thingy cos I'd miss you too much, but if you want a break too, just say..... but of course I'll tell you when I'm off, you'll be having the count down!
Time to go home. Hope all is well there.
Oh Rose, I can hear your feelings in your words. You do sound like you are feeling low. I need to be there to give you a hug. There is time for talking and a time for hugs and this is a hug time. I wish I could be there with you.
Taking a different look at your life is great. I think you did a very insightful and very difficult thing. But it is also healthy. And you explained how you felt about it very well. I understood completely. It is very true that while you are in it you cannot see it as bad as someone looking in. For to do that, you would have to face the stress and the trauma of it and that would require you to react. You would either have to leave or develop an emotional problem from the stress. But instead, you cope by shielding your feelings, having defenses and coping mechanisms. All people in these types of situations do that. And there are many people who live as you do every day. Most people do not have the perfect relationships we all imagine when we are young. So you are not out of the ordinary, unfortunately.
But I think your new perspective, even if you just look at it a little at a time, is a good way for you to start dealing with the trauma of your situation. It also encourages you to look at reality and let down your defenses some.
Cathy has an interesting perspective on you. If she only knew how open you really are! And how brave. Cathy telling you about Poppy must have been difficult. To hear what your daughter feels from someone else, even a friend, is not easy. I think your idea of talking to Poppy about it is good. Maybe it will help open up a link between you so she feels free to communicate more. Do you share your feelings with Poppy about Dave and all that goes on?
I love your attitude about your time away! It's about time you got your chance to do something for yourself. Dave is always taking care of number one, now it's your turn. It's a good step in gaining your individuality.
I never see time away from you as time off. This is not work to me. You know when people say that when you find something you would do for free as a "job" then you know you found your calling? Well, talking to you I would do for free. We have a wonderful connection and I would not give that up for the world (or at least until you are done with me! Then it will be hard still). So if you feel comfortable talking with me while you are away, I welcome it. I would miss you as well when you go on vacation if we did not have a way to talk. But I do understand your need for time to think and time alone. Everyone deserves that at least. But if you are up for our talks, please contact me!
Those marbles are so pretty! I have a thing for glass that is colored. It is irresistible to have something such as marbles or your keyring nearby to touch. For some reason, it is relaxing as well. I'm glad you found these things.
Have a good night, Rose. It is late where you are so I'm hoping that you are off in dreamland by now!
Talk with you soon,
I closed my eyes and imagined you here with me, imagined us close to. I cried for the love and care you show to me, and I was comforted.
My Words are not adequate. Thank you
I am hard pressed to believe the words that you write to me, you make me feel real special; our connection is truly wonderful, and God sent. I will not be giving it up first. I will be with you, day in, day out, unless there is a technical problem beyond my control.
I have to go to work now,
catch you later
*Smiles* I'm glad you feel better. It is hard to not be able to convey the comfort you can get by being together and not separated by so many miles. I feel the same way. Our relationship is a special one and God sent. There could be no other explanation.
Have a good day at work! I hope it goes well. I'll talk with you soon,
Yes, I do feel better, thank you, ***** ***** but stronger today.
I've had a better shift today, less stressful, more in control. It was comforting to have my keyring in my pocket, it is smooth, very tactile, and I enjoyed having it in my hand. It is my bond with you. I'm glad you like coloured glass- I love it too. Have a look at the House of Marbles website- www.houseofmarbles.com for some wonderful marbles.
I've known Cathy for many years. She is critical of my lack of openess because she is very sharing. I have been unable to share with her, with anyone, instead pretending, not admitting. You know all about that. I wish that I could be the person that I am when I write, but my head won't let it be. But I am open and sharing with Poppy, she knows everything, how I feel, what goes on. I need to find out how she REALLY feels- she has told me that she and Dad are fine, he's fun, he won't hurt her. But I think that's just a cover-up. I will try to have a very careful conversation with her this weekend, and be totally honest with her. She deserves to know.
I wonder why Dave doesn't think it's a good idea for me to go away on my own. I have several ideas. 1. He thinks I'm not really going alone. 2. He doesn't want to have responsibility of the children, early mornings, evening meal, school routine- too much like hard work (and maybe no pub!) 3. He thinks that if I go anywhere he should be going too. 4. That I shouldn't be spending money on myself. He wouldn't talk to me this morning, apart from biting my head off bc there was no milk for his cereal! I asked him if I had done something to upset him, but he just ignored me. He is out tonight, gone before I got home, so that's a relief.
I am smiling too. Big time.
But I'm real tired now. Glad my leave is beginning.
Good night Kate
I will take a look at the website. Thanks for sharing it. I sometimes get a kick out of just seeing the pictures. How weird am I?!
I am glad that you can share with Poppy. Hopefully, she will feel the same about telling you how she feels. I imagine that her image of Dave is much like that of an idol. She sees him opposite of what he is. At her age, she is trying to form an view of her father and she doesn't want to see him as he is, probably because she is afraid or angry at him, so she changes it around to make her feel more comfortable and instead sees him as funny and interesting. In psychology it is called reaction formation. You may already know of this term from being a nurse. But it is how Poppy handles Dave and his issues. My worry is that when you try to talk to her, Poppy will become defensive. You will be turning her attention to her defenses and she is not going to like looking at them. She wants to avoid reality when it comes to Dave. I believe for Poppy, to see Dave as he is would be too painful.
If you don't mind my input (and it's fine to ignore it!), try being supportive of her but also let her know that disliking what Dave does is ok. Tell her about how you feel and that you don't hate Dave but you do not like his behavior because he hurts you (and others). If you go gently and back off when Poppy starts to get defensive, you may plant the seeds to help her see Dave's behavior for what it is.
I think your assessment of Dave's reasons for not wanting you to leave on vacation are exactly right! I think all of the reasons you gave are valid. When you mentioned before how he reacted to you saying you were going, it immediately popped into my mind that he is afraid you will not go alone. I think Dave is well aware that he makes you unhappy but he either lacks the motivation or the ability to do anything about it. He also does not want to lose you because he is dependent on you. Your support allows him to live as he does without the consequences. That is not your fault, but it is his for taking advantage.
Good for you, Rose! You are sticking to your guns on this one and it's nice to see.
I'm glad you get time tonight to yourself. Enjoy it! Have a good sleep and I'll talk with you soon.
I knew you'd like the marble site. I'm lucky to live just a few Kms from the glass factory, shop and museum, and I'm a frequent visitor. It's amazing watching them make the marbles and other glass gifts, so skilled to perfection I wonder how anyone can ever learn! Tha marble runs are enormous and fascinating, perpetually in motion, powered by the marbles themselves.
I'm having breakfast in MacDonalds, using their wifi hotspot. I'm just getting to grips with technology on the move, the first time I've used a hotspot! Bodes well for my trip to Cornwall, but I'm just off next door to get a mobile internet access dongle doobrie thingy!! I've dropped the children off at their respective orchestras, and have a couple of free hours in town.
Catch you later.
It feels good to be on leave.
It feels good to talk to you. :-)
I hope you have a lovely weekend with your family.
Ah, freedom! I can hear it in your words. You sound like you are having a blast!
Let me know how it goes with finding the mobile internet thingy. I'm with you, surfing the internet is about as much as I know how to do. Beyond that, I'm lost. I think there are more of us lost people than we realize!
Enjoy your morning,
I was having a blast, I was free. I'm Home with the biggest bump.
Now I'm trapped, no way out. My fate is sealed. He has told me in no uncertain terms that he won't allow me to go, I will create hell, for all of us, and I will be thinking of No 1 only. I'm not allowed to have wishes, wants, I will mess everyone's lives up, he loves me. He says he wants to change, now is the time !!!
I have also learnt, from Dave, that 1. I'm probably in menopause, not depressed, or with fibro (talking to his client about me- her views) 2. I shouldn't be on antidepressants, they are the biggest no-no. 3. I shouldn't be talking to K, I should be talking to his client, she will probably help me far more than K has. I put him in a very bad place every time I go to speak with her. (He is cross bc I laugh sometimes when I talk to her (he has seen me once)- almost how dare I laugh with her- I said there are far more tears than there is laughter) 3. He thinks I'm talking to an old flame- maybe met him on facebook. Have put him straight on that one.
When I got home he was tidying the kitchen. He never tidies the kitchen. He tells me he's cleaning up after Sam (he had a little party last night), and he hopes he appreciates it. (he told him so when he came in from rehearsals) I got on and sorted out the washing, and he came down to say he'd made me a cup of tea and wanted me to come and sit down with it. (uh oh) He told me that while he was painting and talking to his client (who is an acquaintance of mine) she asked him how I was, and he told her. She told him about how she had suffered during the menopause, (muscle pains) and that she felt better with diet and exercise, and that I should have my hormones checked, and NOT be on antidepressants. He told me he didn't like the way we were in separate rooms, that he was living in a dog kennel. I told him that I liked it this way and that I didn't want to return, that I wanted a separation. He said that it would be totally unacceptable for me to make a separation happen. I feel he would make it very nasty indeed if I tried. I am numb, unreacting, just trying to sort out how I feel. Deadened. Sam doesn't like his control, we talked in the car on the way home, he believes we will be happier without him.
I'm scared that I can't feel.
Rose, I am so sorry. You were feeling so good and to deal with this downturn is very hard.
But I do not think your fate is sealed. It will not be easy, but you can still have what you want. What Dave says is about what Dave needs for himself. He is afraid because he sees the writing on the wall. You want to leave. His meal ticket is done. He will have to be responsible for himself. Of course he is making threats. He doesn't want the free ride to go away.
Dave is wrong about you talking to K. Think of what K has been to you. Dave is threatened by that. K is helping you to get better. That is a huge threat to Dave. If you get better, he loses all he has with you. From my perspective, K is very good for you. She has done a world of good and helped you through when you needed her. She is there for you, something which Dave does not understand.
I think Dave is telling you he loves you because in his own way he does. But it is not the kind of love you need. It is his kind, which includes him using you and hurting you.
This is not about menopause, needing exercise or a change in diet. This is about Dave mistreating you. Just the fact that he can talk to someone else about your personal and very private life is a boundary violation. And Dave probably left out any of the things he has done to cause you to feel the way you do.
Hang in there, Rose. You may feel bad about what Dave said, but it does not change the situation. He is making threats and that is the only important part. That means you need to take steps to protect yourself and the kids. Seeing an attorney is probably a good idea at this point. Even if you just want a separation, the attorney can help you with what you need to know to protect yourself and the kids. At this point, the kids are old enough to say what they want if Dave does push it.
Rose, this is not easy. I feel for you. You are making a huge change here and that can be frightening. But you have me, you have K and you are ready to deal with this. Don't allow Dave to bully you. He does not have the power here, you do. You have held your family together the entire time and you were the responsible person. You deserve to feel free again. Don't allow Dave to take that away from you.
I'll be here. Let me know what happens,
You're welcome. I am always here for you.
I hope some rest helps you decide what path you want to take. I'm ready to help no matter what.
Thank you, Rose!
I hope you are doing ok. I've been thinking of you all day.
Rose, this is a tough time. Things have come to a head and the family is readjusting to a new reality. Your sadness over the situation with Dave needed to come out eventually and there is no good time for it to happen. But I think it is a brave thing that you did. You are confronting Dave and dealing with the heart of the problem that you have been living with for so long.
Poppy is going to be unhappy because the situation, including your feelings, challenges her defenses regarding Dave. She is not going to accept you are unhappy about the situation with Dave because to her, Dave can be fixed. He is not that bad, if bad at all. She has created an image of Dave that if altered, makes her whole world change. She is going to fight that no matter what. This makes it very hard for you. Getting what you need goes against what Poppy wants. She wants peace and her view of Dave unchallenged. You want change that means you don't get abused anymore. You want your peace and the opportunity to be yourself and have a life.
It is interesting that Dave's first response to the situation is not to see this as something he has caused, but to blame you for the problem. First, he tells Poppy about the separation. That should have stayed between you two. But he used it as a weapon to make you the bad guy in this situation. Then he changes his mind about the counseling so he looks like he is willing to cooperate now instead of uncooperative like he was with you, in private. He also says you are lying about why you were in your room so you need to defend yourself, again making you look bad. So far, the kids have the view that you lie and he is the good guy.
Dave has put you on the defensive. He has painted you into a corner. He knows your buttons and he is pushing all of them to get himself out of this situation. He doesn't want to have to give up this lifestyle where he has it easy and doesn't need to be responsible. How you respond depends on what kind of outcome you are looking for.
It is still a good idea for you to go away, maybe now more than ever. You need the time to sort things through. Explaining this to the kids and telling them that you need this time is ok to do. You can also tell them that Dave has his version of how things are and you have yours, which is one of the reasons you need a break. Sam will probably understand this, Poppy not so much. But they need to understand you have needs too. So far, all they have seen is Dave getting his needs met, and you compensating for it so it is all they know. Changing the way the family works is going to take some pushing and pain. But to get healthy, that may be what is needed. Unfortunately, it seems that Dave is determined to blame you so the family stays unhealthy, because that is what he needs to keep getting what he wants. He is unhealthy, so the family must stay unhealthy for him.
How do you feel about this? I feel a great need to just be here for you but also support your desire for freedom from this abusive marriage. It is completely your decision and I will help you either way, so I'll let you guide me to what you need.
This is hard, Rose. I'm sorry. I'll do whatever I can to try to make it easier.
I think it is natural for you to feel low after the stress you have gone through the past few days. But this will get sorted out. We can work it through. And we will. You are not alone in this, Rose.
When is the next time you talk with K? Is she aware of what you are going through?
I hope your meeting goes well (or went well) with your friend. Is it someone you can share with? Sometimes just talking about how you feel to someone who will listen makes a difference.
My kids still don't want to go to school! But Mom the motivator is working on it. I will tell you about them. Thanks for asking.
I am glad you still went to coffee with your friends. It is hard, but it is also good that you keep going with your life and keep working on yourself. Talking to your friends is good practice, though I understand your need to be by yourself. Your hurting and being alone makes it easier. No stress of having to deal with others. But being out there helps too. It keeps you in touch and keeps your friendships going. You may decide one day to talk to one of your friends about your situation and any support you have outside of Dave is good to have.
It sounds like Mark may be another person in your life with needs who wants you to fulfill them. It is good you asked him to go and let you be. You do not need that kind of stress right now.
Rose, I think it is great that you told Dave about how you felt. You confronted him with some of the manipulations he tried to put on you. I can understand why he didn't have anything to say about telling Poppy about the separation. He was wrong to do it. And he did it for himself, not for Poppy and not for you.
From your description of Dave's drinking, it does not sound like he is drinking less at all. I agree with you, he is drinking just as much. It seems that Dave might have either thought he is drinking less, which means he is not seeing reality as it is (denial), or he thought by telling you he is drinking less you would believe he is. People who are narcissistic often think that because they say something, everyone will think that is how it is. You saw the truth and said it. That is exactly how you deal with someone like Dave.
Dave is certainly threatened by K and now it sounds like by your friend Cathy. Anyone who supports you and does not support his behavior is a threat to him. He likes control and he senses he is losing that control with you. He probably is afraid that K or Cathy will convince you to leave him and therefore he will lose. So attacking you and those who support you is an effort to keep you under his thumb. Very typical behavior of an abusive person.
Making a decision right now about leaving the relationship is not necessary. You can collect all the opinions in the world but in the end, you have to live with the consequences. Deciding to leave is not easy and when or if you choose to do it, it has to be something you feel strongly about. You don't want to leave then come back. That would make it worse for you. And may also make Dave worse, because then he knows you will leave so he'll increase the attempts to control you.
But it is good that you are rocking the boat. By confronting Dave and letting him know how you feel, you are making him show his colors. He has to respond if he doesn't want to lose his lifestyle. He is quite dependent on you to make this work for him. Going out and making his own way does not seem to occur to him. So his only choice is to make you stay so he doesn't have to do anything. By confronting him, you are telling him that you are unhappy about his behavior. It may not change him, but it may make it easier for you to leave eventually because you will see the worst sides of him.
It is good that you do have time off so you can process this situation. If you can, take some time to pamper yourself. If you choose to not go away, are there other things you can do to help yourself feel better?
Your thank you's are plenty for me. I very much enjoy our conversations. You are very easy to talk with. And I am honored that you do share such personal things with me. I am well aware that it is not easy and I thank you for trusting me.
Yes, I'd imagine that the guilt and accusing will be increasing as you express how you feel. The empty promises are typical as well of an abuser. It is part of the abuse cycle. "Please forgive, reconciliation, pain and hurt back to please forgive". It is never any easy cycle to break out of.
I hope all goes well with Alexis. No fun hairdressers to entertain this time?
Sleep well, Rose. I'll be thinking of you.
PS. Oh sorry! I clicked answer instead of info request. Please do not pay for this answer.
Oh, I like that one too!
Sounds like a busy day you have. I hope all goes smoothly and you get some down time for yourself!
Talk to you soon,
I hope your session with K went well. I imagine that it was helpful to talk to her about how you're feeling.
Victoria sponge? It sounds wonderful, whatever it might be!
You sound exhausted. I hope your rest is peaceful and you feel much better in the morning!
Thank you for the picture (yum, now I'm very hungry!) and the description of the cake. I love to bake (my therapy!) so I will definitely give it a try.
I am sorry Rose. I wish I was there with you as well, like K. This is a time you need a hug, some down time and some TLC.
First of all, you are not crazy. Matter or fact, you are very normal. It is extremely common for domestic abuse victims to feel they are mad and for their abusers to tell them that they are (a bit of transference!). And you are feeling the way you are right now because Dave has bullied you into giving up something you need, something you were really looking forward to. You needed that time away and you made the attempt to confront Dave and go. But he bullied you out of going.
What do you feel would happen if you went anyway? What prevents you from going?
I understand your need to cut. It is painful to be caught in an abusive relationship and to have to keep taking the abuse. Building up the strength to face Dave and to get out feels overwhelming. Abuse causes depression, low self worth and questioning of your own sanity. Dave controls you which leads to your feelings of being trapped, the need to get out and your self loathing. Cutting is a consequence to how you feel because you feel there is no other choice. You are not allowed to express yourself in the ways you need to. Cutting also channels your self hatred and your need to control your pain.
Right now Dave has the power in your relationship. He has used your low self esteem and self loathing to get a foothold and take over your life. He has made you his puppet, forcing you to support him and accept his narcissistic behavior. He takes away your choices, convinces you that you are crazy and dominates your relationship. He also bullies the kids. He has made himself king and you are his subjects. Any hint that you want independence and he squashes it immediately by turning up the abusive behavior and pushing all of your buttons. But this is not how it has to stay.
You can get out of this Rose. It takes some pushing, some changes and deciding to face what is and challenge it. It is basically a decision to plow through no matter what Dave chooses to throw at you. It is also believing in yourself, like K and I believe in you. We see who you are, your worth, the wonderful person you are. We just need you to see it. And to start seeing Dave's behavior for what is- small, weak and sad. For that is what a bully is inside. They act abusive and mean because that is all they can muster from what they have inside. Not a shred of selflessness, kindness or care for anyone else.
You do have the freedom to make your own choices. It may seem that Dave has taken that away from you, but you do not have allow him to do this. It is a decision that you need to make. You were beginning to make it before this incident. You were finding your voice, getting stronger and making good choices for yourself. Allowing Dave to change all that is a decision. How do you feel about changing it so you have control over yourself? You can get the control back. It is your choice. I know there is fear involved and apprehension. But it can be done. People have done it before, gotten out of these types of relationships and left the abuse behind. There are ways we can work on it so you change your life and gain your freedom. We can talk about that if you wish.
I am glad you have decided to still go away! You need it and deserve it. You have worked so hard and through all the pain, physical and emotional.
I am concerned that you see yourself as a tortoise that is hiding from life. You took what I said and made it something bad about you. What happened?
Wanting to block all of this out is very natural. It is a very hard decision to make. You want to stay and hope it all will get better, that Dave really means he will work on himself and treat you like he should. Facing that he is making empty promises based on the threat of consequences (you might leave him) is hard. You want to have hope, not despair. And fear can be a strong motivator to stay, especially if he makes threats to go after you if you do go. And you can stay if you choose. We can work together on that as well, to try to make it easier on you.
Rose, you're welcome. Your heart is hurting, I can tell. But whatever your choice, you are doing the best you can. Remember that.
Your struggle is good. Not easy, but good. It shows you are considering both sides, looking at your choices and facing your issues. If you just gave up and quit, I would worry for you. But you are moving forward and trying. And that is always positive.
Do you mean that you could not be bothered about leaving Dave? If so, that is very understandable. You are feeling overwhelmed and it all got to be too much.
I see big progress, small step back. It seems like a big failure to you, but that is your self esteem and Dave's dysfunctional input talking to you. It is not reality. In real life, you are doing very well. But taking a break and saying I've had enough for now is fine.
Ah, yes, the devil you know. I understand. And this one you do know all too well!
You are trying hard. I think it feels like a mountain because you are trying to overcome two big things all at once- your self esteem and Dave's abuse. You are pushing against what you were taught about yourself- that you must accept what is and cope. You were taught that it is what you deserve. And Dave confirms that too. So the messages are within you and with Dave. Believing something different about yourself seems hard to accept. You cannot be a self assured person, that is for other people! But it's just a lie. It is for you, too, Rose.
What do you feel would get Dave out of your way and clear your path?
Thank you, ***** *****'ll talk with you then.
Very pretty! Thank you Rose.
I enjoyed the snow plow image!
I like your idea of coming out of your current role and putting yourself out there more. Being who you are instead of who Dave wants you to be. Dave has had his way for quite a while now and it has gotten you a lot of grief. I imagine that Dave feels his way is the best way. But as is the case with people who have narcissism, it is usually their way or the highway. Changing that is a challenge but it very much needs done because his way hurts you and the kids. Are you thinking bit by bit here or all at once? There is no right answer, I'm just wondering how you would like to approach it.
I have the impression of you as someone who is already very independent. You take care of the bills, bring in income, care for the kids and the home and do most all of the responsible things any other independence adult does. Except for Dave being in the home and maybe doing some things, I'm not sure he contributes that much. And I'm not sure that you going out more would be needed for independence. Changing your schedule, keeping to yourself about your activities, and basically acting as if Dave is not there may be the best change. Also, splitting your bank accounts and beginning to take charge of your own money and savings would give you a head start on moving away from Dave. If he has to be in charge of his own money, I imagine that will be a rude awakening.
It is amazing the expectations Dave has of you. You are at fault for his drinking because you aren't there to tell him to stop? What is he, five years old? Talk about not taking responsibility for your own actions. That is some pretty amazing thinking he has going on there. Your response was great. I'm not sure I could have come back with anything to such a comment.
I love the picture of Lola! She looks like she is full of pep and energy! I'm a dog fan for sure. I have two, one a mutt and another a Cocker Spaniel. I would get more but with three kids, a husband, two dogs, hamsters and fish I think I'm done for a while!
Take care Rose. I hope your day is going well.
I am happy that you chose to go away for a few days on vacation. You could really use a break. I can't wait to see what you choose for your hotel. Aren't hotels fun?
I hope your session with K goes well and you get a lot out of it today. She may have some more insights into your plans as well.
Talk to you later,
Awww, Snowberry is adorable! Naughtly pony, eh? Snowberry can get away with it being so cute!
Horses and ponies are special animals, I think. There is a connection to them that draws you in.
Children arguing can throw off just about anything and it can really get to you. It is very exasperating. I'm glad to hear that it happened with K there so you could get some support. It is stressful to deal with it alone.
Chocolate is great therapy! It is wonderful after a stressful time. But pear crumble works well too! I would take either one, without argument.
It is so heartwarming to see your kids get something you never got to do, isn't it? It makes your heart glad. I wish that you had been able to have that as well as a child.
Thank you for the picture. I am enjoying getting to know more about your life!
Have a good night, Rose. Sleep well.
It's always so wonderful to hear from you! It does sound like you are having a great day.
Isn't it always more expensive when you take the kids shopping? I dread going to any store with mine, but especially the mall. They nearly kill me in there. Mom, can I have this, pleeeessse? Or the classic, But all my friends have one. Ugh. They know mom is nothing but a big softy!
Poppy is adorable with Juniper! I am very much enjoying your pictures. Your children are precious.
The tortoises analogy was very good. I think the butterfly fits too. You are in a cocoon about to emerge, but at times, it is important that you pull your head into your shell (to protect yourself) and regroup. The freedom of being shell less next week is going to give you a sneak peak at life without Dave's issues. I think it will serve as a good reference for you when you feel you need strength to keep moving forward with your goals.
You are saying that you feel the cutting is ineffective? Can you tell me a bit more about that?
Let me know how the hotel search ends up!
You do not bore me in the least! I look forward to hearing from you and I am enjoying getting to know you better. Your pictures make me smile.
Thank you for explaining the nettle situation. I understand better now.
A joke! Oh, boy. Not my strong suit. Ok, here goes:
He's a snail
Did I guess right?
Ha! I thought about saying that too. I should have!
I can understand your feelings very well. You were told lies about who you are and made to believe you are not worthy by people who felt unworthy themselves. They put that on you instead of dealing with their feelings as they should have- on their own. So instead of taking responsibility, they made you feel bad instead. You had no other way to know anything different. But I am telling you, as I am sure K does as well, that you are valuable. You are worthy. And you are important as a person, a mother, and a friend. As a wife as well, though Dave has too many of his own issues to value you as he should. But your role as wife is valuable, regardless of how Dave reacts.
Self worth is about thoughts as much as it is about feelings. It is what you think of yourself. It is also about what you are willing to take in from others. Right now, you are allowing Dave and others to feed you what he thinks you are worth. You are open to what he says because it matches what you think about yourself. That is why when I tell you that I think you are interesting and worthwhile, you have a hard time taking it in. It does not match what you believe about yourself.
So changing what you think is key. It is a progressive change and you are taking steps to change it. You are challenging Dave, looking at your life differently, and reaching out for assistance. I think that as you progress, your ability to express yourself through words should merge with your ability to express yourself verbally. But seeing your gift to express yourself through writing as valuable is important. You are very gifted in that way. A lot of people are not. Seeing your writing as gift instead of what you feel is your deficit verbally is another way to view yourself. And a way to improve your self esteem. To give yourself a negative review is just buying into what you were taught to believe about yourself.
So when I say I enjoy getting your posts, talking with you and sharing your life, do you believe me? If not, why not? What do you feel would make me lie about something like that?
Good morning Kate,
I DO DO DO believe you, 1000%, so sincerely, ***** ***** are, and I love the way it makes me feel; it is such an unusual feeling that I keep thinking it's going to slip away, and I have to grasp it tight, and seal it in before it's gone again, remember what it feels like. It's not a thought that I can treasure often, and that is why when I glimpse it I wonder if it is real, and so I wonder at it's existence. Kate, you make me feel real good.
You are so right about what I was taught. I was taught all my school days partly by nuns. I was a Girl Guide, 'Promise to serve other people', and my parents prevented me from talking positively about myself, always to put others before me, be subservient, no-one wants to hear about you and your achievements, always make others feel good about themselves to the detriment of yourself. It is wrong to speak highly of yourself, by all means achieve, you must achieve, but do not put it out there for others to see. And now I live with a man who talks about himself ad nauseum, and I have not a chance, nor wish, to speak about myself. I find it almost impossible. I am delighted that the children are able to speak positively about themselves, and feel they have good self worth, Poppy more so than Sam, but I have been careful to praise achievements, and ignore or make light of failures, and am happy with the self confidence that they both have.
I was out this morning early taking Poppy to her rehearsal. I have now got myself the dongle (it really is called that!) for mobile internet access for next week, and got a few more groceries before coming home again. I bought myself.....wait for it...... some roses, that were past their sell by date, half price, I never buy myself flowers, nor am I ever bought any. But they were lovely, and more importantly, cheap! I was feeling pretty upbeat driving home, thinking about my freedom in a few days time. My feelings changed instantly I was in Dave's company, and I felt tense and irritated. He said- you've bought yourself some flowers?!- and without asking, took them, chopped the ends off, and put them in a vase. I felt cheated out of something that I had been looking forward to doing, but WHY COULDN'T I SAY I WANTED TO DO THAT? Now I'm hating being at home, I can't settle or relax, I can hardly bear to be here.
If you lived around the corner, (if only) I would be delivering you a large basket of runner beans. I have picked boxes of them. Nobody seems to want any, my parents are away, and the kids dislike them intensely! I made a big vat of bean soup the other day, which everyone loves, so thank goodness Poppy is getting some greens one way or another. That is my job for this afternoon, another double quantity, and I'll have to find some freezer space, or we'll all be bean souped out!!
I hope have a good weekend planned.
Another pic for you:
View across the valley from paddock
Oh my goodness (I literally did say that out loud too!), your picture is breathtaking. You live in such a lovely place. That is surely a blessing in and of itself. The place I live is not pretty at all, so I very much enjoy seeing views such as yours to know that beauty is out there and people do see such beauty everyday!
It is good that you do believe me when I tell you what I feel about you as a person. Now contrast what I say to you to what you say to yourself about who you are. What is your internal dialog like? Are you listening to the replay of what was said to you long ago? Is is on automatic? Do you question it at all? And if so, what is your response? How do you keep the messages from those nuns and your parents going?
Even though you still listen to the replay messages for yourself and apply them to your life, you still know inside they are wrong. So much so that you taught Sam and Poppy completely different messages about themselves. You are so smart and resourceful that you went against everything you were taught. You automatically knew what to teach Sam and Poppy without ever being raised that way yourself. Amazing. This is a sign that although you still feel the messages apply to you, you have great doubts they are true at all for yourself and not true for others. It also means you can overcome them for yourself.
Roses....perfect! I think it is wonderful that you bought flowers for yourself. What a nice treat. Though it doesn't surprise me Dave took over when you got home, how you felt about it was good. You expressed being upset that he took the experience away from you (stealing your voice?). It is disappointing, but I also think it is a good learning experience. Here is something important to you that you can respond to. If you could replay that moment, what would you have said to Dave instead?
I would love to share some of your beans as long as you would take some of my rosemary and basil! I bet your soup is really good. Another picture in my head of Rose's cozy home with warm soup and beautiful views......
Rose, it's great! I love the hotel. Thank you for sending me the link. It sounds quaint and exciting all at the same time. I am having butterflies for you (pun intended!). I can't wait to hear about all of your adventures.
It sounds like being with Tony gave you so much. I am glad you had the chance to have him in your life, and his sister too. It is hurtful to think of what should have been for you as a child. It is painful in a way that few other things are. But it is also a powerful motivator. You did something good with your experience with Tony and his sister. You gave your children something precious.
Have a good night- talk to you tomorrow.
I love your pun! And I'm so pleased you like the hotel. I have read that we are entering a heatwave this week, so it's all coming together, with good weather forecast. I have my middle day (Thursday) planned, a coastal path walk, taking in the Minack Theatre. Wait til I send you pics of that!
I feel I have a guilty secret, but I like the feeling, bc it's all mine and not being spoilt by Dave's opinions, negative vibes or control. It won't be picked at til I come home, so I can look forward to it wholly, and share with just you and K, who so want it for me.
Here is another pic for you:
The pond being overtaken by yellow flags (iris) There are many fish, golden orphs and small carp, scores of babies this year. Lots of wildlife, always interesting to peer into the muddy water! The building on the left is the barn, our home, the window my kitchen (upstairs downstairs!), which opens onto decking, and Sam's room is half of the 'shed' on the right behind the aviary, where the rabbits (2) and budgies (13) live! I can here them now twittering and chatting away, as I sit at the kitchen table.
I hope your weather is good too, I wonder what you have planned for your day off? I'm helping Poppy with her long list of homework- malaria is the moments topic.
You sound so happy! That makes me feel happy too. It is very exciting to have something to look forward to that is just for you, without Dave's issues interfering. I cannot wait to hear all the details.
You have quite the space where you live! And the nature sounds would be so soothing. I asked my husband about budgies and he mentioned that we do have some here brought over from the UK. I asked if he can point them out next time. I want to see if the bird will sing so I can hear what you hear!
The weather is up and down here. We are cooling off some with fall with days in the 70's and some dipping into the 60's. Mostly it is overcast. We get our "Indian Summer" usually in October, where it is hot for about one week. Then the big cool down starts towards Thanksgiving (November).
I am spending most of today helping my sister and her husband move my mother into her new place on my sister's property. My mother is not doing too well and she needs to be close to my sister, who is a nurse, just in case. Everyone is excited because the new place is very nice. My brother in law is a carpenter and he made the place very accommodating to my mother's needs. We are all grateful to have him in our family.
I will still be checking in if you would like to talk. I hope your day goes well and you don't have any trouble with Dave. It would be nice if you just had time to think about your time away and to be with the kids. Let me know how Poppy's homework assignment turns out. Malaria is quite an interesting topic!
I am sorry to hear that Dave is up to no good again today. He does not take a break, does he? We could talk today, I am just fine with it. I don't want you to sit with such a burden because it is Sunday. I always want to talk with you, Rose.
That is pretty scary what your sister went through. Sounds very exotic, working in Ghana! What is the FoE?
So Dave has other children? You may have mentioned this already but for some reason I cannot recall for sure. Yes, Dave seems to have a different standard for you than he does for himself. But it is very interesting that Poppy notices the difference too. Very perceptive girl.
Please tell me about this cloud threatening your happiness over your get away. I hope it's nothing too serious (and it's name is ***** *****).
Thank you for the moving advice! It is much appreciated. I did try to lift responsibly and I think I must have done fine since my back is not protesting! Now tomorrow morning, who knows?
Have a good night, Rose. When you wake up, it'll be one day closer to your time away!
Ok, Rose, till tomorrow. Hang in there. I'll be thinking of you and praying that cloud dissipates!
I'm having a bit of a problem with JA. It's not working right!! Ugh. I am trying to fix it. I won't leave until I can get back to your question, I promise!
Sorry about that. JA started this new rule where we have to answer people who have asked another question before we are allowed to respond to anyone else. So I can't skip to answer you, I have to respond to others first. And the system was giving me some trouble. I am sorry to keep you waiting.
Wow, you had quite a weekend. I am so sorry that you had to go through that.
I am glad you did a blow by blow. It gave me a detailed picture of what goes on during interactions with Dave. He has quite the logic when it comes to confronting him about his problems.
Dave is very centered around himself. He thinks totally through himself and no one else. As you were describing your interaction with him, all I kept thinking is that Dave is a bully. He is mean, threatening and he puts all of his actions on you. Instead of seeing himself as the culprit as the verbally abusive one, he tells you that you are verbally abusive. Huh? That could not be further from the truth.
Your requests that he help out around the house are certainly reasonable. Matter or fact, you should not even have to request him to do anything. He should be doing this all himself. He lives there, he needs to do the work too.
Asking him to take Sam is also reasonable. Dave is used to only taking care of himself and doesn't think of others. So your request irritates him. It challenges his right to think only of himself.
I understand your need to keep the peace. Dave is an unknown factor. Because of his behavior, he is unpredictable. So deliberately setting him off is a scary idea. Because of that, I've been thinking that a good back up plan is needed for your leaving.
You have a good idea for this week's time away. The kids need to be with friends or relatives. Setting that up and giving them safe places to be is great.
For your ultimate leaving however, that may take some more planning. We mentioned it before, but I also thought that you worked some on it with K. Is that right? I don't want to start coming at you with ideas and suggestions if you are already working on it or if you don't want to work on it.
It may also be a good idea to answer back to ***** *****ke you did. A little here and there may give you an idea of his boundaries. You also need a chance to build up your self esteem. Dave's power over you lies in your beliefs about yourself. You take in what he says and don't challenge it, like with the flowers. Confidence that you can handle yourself and anything Dave does has to be built up.
What do you think?
Oh Rose, there is nothing to worry about. I am not offended in the least about Dave and what he said about Americans and I don't think K will be either. Us Americans can be a bit outspoken and unruly, but that aside, I think K will do exactly what I did- look at the source. Whatever Dave says should be taken with a grain of salt. He does not see things fairly or without bias. And his behavior makes it impossible to take him seriously. And therefore there is no reason to be concerned.
Are you concerned that K will think your getaway is a bad idea?
Yes, it is very clear why you leave him out and do things yourself. He has made it so hard to engage him and try to work with him that you have little choice. I think he made it that way so he does not have to be responsible. By blaming you for being "nagging" and "verbally abusive" he also does not have to take responsibility for his own abuse of you and the kids.
I do not think you could be verbally abusive if you tried and definitely not at the level Dave is abusive. He is simply transferring his issues onto you.
Being confident and standing your ground is completely different than being abusive. I think that is also part of what Dave tries to keep you from doing. He does not want a confident Rose or one that stands her ground. If that occurred, he could not be what he is. He would feel threatened and out of control. His whole life, which depends on you being afraid of him and being under his control, would crumble. And that is Dave's sole power in life.
It is also very common for someone who is abused to question themselves. The abuser makes sure of that, for if you are worried about something wrong with you, you are not thinking about what is being done to you. You are not able to muster up the strength to fight the abuse. Your energy becomes about trying to fix yourself instead.
Your plan for Sam and Poppy sounds good. If something did happen, they could always call you as well.
How are you feeling about your trip? I hope the events of this past weekend did not take too much of the excitement away. You very much deserve this time, Rose.
It sounds like you have everything covered and prepared! This is exciting and I imagine a little scary too. Leaving on vacation and facing Dave when you go is a big step but it is good preparation for the future.
Some rehearsal should help you deal with telling Dave. I imagine that you have a good idea of how he will react. He is probably going to try to stop you as well. Think through how you want to respond to just a minor protest from him (ok, we can be hopeful here!) to a major blow out, where he tries to physically stop you. Think of your responses to each scenario. What will you feel and how you will handle it. And what you will say. Allow yourself moments of doubt. It is ok to feel unsure and scared. If you allow yourself to experience these feelings and still go through with your plans, you will have crossed a major hurdle in your situation. And even if you don't, you are still facing this head on. You are not canceling your plans and you are willing to deal with Dave and all his drama. That is bravery itself.
When it comes to your responses, you may want to think about an all around good response that shuts Dave down and keeps you calm at the same time. Something simple like "I need this and I am going. I will see you (date)". And say this repeatedly to every thing he says. Leave him a note somewhere to find later (in the microwave for example) saying what you have done with the kids' arrangements. Then tell the kids the rest of the information like emergency numbers, etc. (I think you mentioned you did this already). Then go. Have your car parked close and have it open already so you can jump in and lock it. You may want to see if the kids are willing to stay with a friend or neighbor until you have gone so they do not get the brunt of Dave's emotional response.
You may also want to consider someone with you. This is just a consideration and I would also talk to K about your thoughts on this. But if someone else is there, Dave is more likely to watch his behavior with you and not cause as much trouble. A neighbor "just stopping by" or a friend will help.
What do you think?
Rose, I never hold your hand. You are strong and resourceful! This is going to be a wonderful adventure for you. And good for you to ask for assistance. This is not easy and your doing it anyway. I think it's great.
I am glad you had the chance to talk to K about the situation. It sounds like she had some good advice for you.
I can't wait to hear all about your adventure! Have fun!
I am so happy for you! You sound wonderful! And I am glad all went well with Dave. Good timing on your part, getting him before he could get his wits about him.
I've said this before, but you really deserve this time, Rose. Enjoy and don't worry about anything. This is your "me" time. Soak it all in and relax.
Thank you for taking the time to let me know what happened! I was thinking of you all morning.
Have lots of fun!
I've just been helping Poppy with that malaria h/w via skype!! Whatever next! She wants to learn her french with me tomorrow night!
I've had a lovely day. Time by the sea, browsing the shoppes, eating cornish pasties, icecreams (2), fish and chips....Mmmmm.
A poem for you.....
Standing on the edge of land and sea,
The divide between two great masses,
Mergence of terra firma, oceana,
Inspiration for awe and wonder,
Filling the senses, all at once,
With nature's incredible diversity.
Warm and gentle offshore breeze,
Perpetually in motion, never still,
Softly changing the sand-scape,
Eroding abandoned sandcastles, footprints,
Smoothing harsh edges, remodelling effortlessly,
Sculpting with a skilled hand.
Sun casting long perfect shadows
Across footprints discarded in the sand,
Close to setting behind me,
Sharing it's last warm evening rays,
Through an unblemished clear blue sky
Glinting off the ripples at the water's edge.
Calm waves lapping the emptying beach,
New patterns with every rise and fall,
Softly rolling, delicately edged with white foam lace,
Stirring up the sand beneath,
Remoulding the beach for another new day,
Leaving it virginal once again.
Blue green ocean,
Sparkling, rippling, never still,
Forming soft stippled peaks in the harbour,
Motorboats, fun, speed, laughter,
Fishing boats, gentle, peaceful, tranquil,
Harbour filled with livelihood, recreation, side by side.
I have found peace.
Thank you Rose! That is the most relaxed I have felt all day. How do I click accept?
You truly have found a piece of heaven. That picture could be framed it is so soothing. I could almost feel my toes in the sand.
All those foods sound good! What are Cornish pasties?
Do you realize the talent you have? Your poem is beautiful! Please consider publishing what you write. It is amazing.
Have a good night!
Fair enough! Good night, sweet dreams!
It's another beautiful day. I'm so happy to be hear. I've just had the BIGGEST breakfast- I won't need any icecreams today!
Cornish pasties are lovely. History- they've been around since the 1300's, but for the last 200 years or so regularly made be wives of Cornish miners and working classes for their lunch, leftovers from dinner the day before, put inside a parcel of shortcrust pastry- easy to carry and eat. Traditionally meat and potato, onion and swede, but today anything goes, but usually something with potato. I had cheese broccoli and sweetcorn yesterday, the potato goes unsaid. :) The pasty is the Cornish national dish!!
Thank you for your lovely comment about my poem. It makes me happy to write them.
Thank you for the description of Cornish pasties. I'm going to have to try and make some since I can't buy them here. They look really good. They remind me a bit of the peirogies that are so popular here in the North. They are pasta like shells filled with potatoes and cheese.
Enjoy your day!
It sounds like you are having lots of fun, dangly bits included! It is easy to feel that I get a little vacation myself just hearing about your days. I am tickled to see you so happy.
Pics (I hope)
The dangly beach before
The dangly beach after!!
Your day sounds like it was perfect! I will take a look on line at the Minack Theatre since the photo didn't come through. And the food sounds as good as the scenery.
With kids it is very hard to get away. But I am sure Poppy appreciates it and it helps her miss you a little less to know Mom is just a Skype away!
I understand how K feels. It is wonderful to see you feel so happy.
Supper is over. We eat early on some days, depending on our schedule. The kids are so hungry when they get home from school it's easier to feed them early too. It's almost bed time here for them. School again tomorrow! At least it's Friday...
Sleep well, Rose. Many adventures await for you tomorrow, I hope!
The pictures did come through. Wow! It does look like Heaven! It is gorgeous there.
Thanks for letting me see where you are.
Your poem is so touching and full of emotion. You have a wonderful grasp of words and how to put them together to create a feeling and a picture all at the same time. Simply beautiful.
I could also tell from your words that there is an underlying sense of the inevitably of your situation. Going back is always hard but your situation puts going home beyond the ordinary. There is an extra dread that goes with dealing with Dave and all the stress he brings.
But you can take this one step at a time. Start by thinking about your life at home. You were just there a few days ago (I know, it doesn't feel like it, does it?!) and you were coping just fine. You even had some happy moments, mostly when Dave was away, but you did. You found pockets of peace. And you can do it again.
And now that you have been away, you have had time to regroup. You are in a better frame of mind to cope with life at home. You can start making changes, even just small ones, to give yourself more control.
You are also going back a changed person. You did not think you could leave just a few weeks ago. You faced Dave and the stress of the situation and went on ahead and left. You gained something from this experience. You are not quite the same person as when you left.
All of these things go together to help you face going back. I know it's not easy. But I am here and K is with you as well. We will stay with you as often as you need us.Take a deep breath and remember you are strong, independent and resourceful.
Yes, I do think you are strong. Anyone who can live through what you have lived through and come out as kind hearted, thoughtful and as smart as you is very strong. And you are an excellent mother to Sam and Poppy and a great nurse. These are all things that came from you, not your parents or your relationship with Dave. This is all deep inside you.
There is nothing wrong with being alone, if you mean that you want to be by yourself. You are introverted and enjoy the aspects of life that have to do with being creative, quiet and introspective. That is very healthy.
But if you mean be alone as in having to be alone with no support, that is a tougher situation. You are alone in your life in terms of responsibility and work. You have no functional partner at least at this point in your life. I believe that once you explore and resolve some of the issues that made you choose Dave over a healthier partner, you will get the relationship you need for yourself.
It's ok to cry. You have a lot to face and it is not easy. Cry as much as you need to. It is a good way to cope.
Let me know when you reach home. I want to be here for you if you need someone to talk to.
Rose, I am sorry. I know you are having a rough time. This is a great time for one of those hugs we talk about. I imagine you could use it right now. I'm thinking of you.
You're welcome! Talk to you soon,
I'm glad you made it home and all is well. I think it is good that everyone is away and you have time to get used to being there again.
It is hard to leave such a paradise and come back to your troubles. I am sorry you felt so bad as to cry part of the way home. You are unhappy with your life as it is and I think being away gave you a glimpse of life without Dave and how free you felt. Planning another trip as soon as you can would not be a bad idea!
Let me know how you settle in.
Rose, I think it is good that you avoid Dave until you are ready. Interaction with him usually leaves you with a bad feeling and there is no reason to rush that.
You mention needing more fight. I think it is difficult for anyone to want to face what Dave dishes out. You have plenty of strength but the kind of fight it takes to deal with Dave and his issues is something anyone would have to build up to. If you re read some of the experiences you had with Dave that you wrote about, it is amazing that you are as calm as you are. They are some pretty traumatizing experiences. It takes much strength to deal with something like that. Celebrating your strength and recognizing it will help you realize you are strong right now.
I really enjoyed sharing your vacation. I felt I got away myself a little bit. I have always wanted to visit the UK and you showed me a side I would probably would have never thought to see myself. Thank you!
I wondered if you were ok with us starting a new thread. The JA system is giving me some trouble about posting and I almost lose the thread sometimes. Is that ok? We can stick with this one as long as possible if you don't want to start another one yet. Let me know what you are comfortable with.
I'll talk with you soon,
i'm in a state of stuckness if there is such a thing, can't feel, head won't think. I have a
horrible feeling in the bottom of my stomach, I feel very unsettled. I'm home alone, just how I like it....but why am I crying?
I had to see Dave at lunchtime. He wanted to hug me. Told me he'd missed me. Was upset when I couldn't say the same. I can't lie. He's trying. But out .
I am strong, I can keep going, I have to. The cottage is mine again when I want it. If I want it.
I will start a new thread tomorrow.
Please don't lose my message.
I am sorry that you are going through this. Facing Dave and all that comes with him is also facing your past and current feelings. There is a lot of baggage there. I think it is very normal for you to cry about this. Seeing Dave reminds you of what you have to deal with, your past where you didn't get what you needed and the burden you carry coping with all of these feelings. It is overwhelming and I imagine the tears are about the stress of it all.
There is nothing wrong with you holding back from Dave. He has not done anything that warrants hugging him or offering him any affection. It is perfectly fine for you to avoid responding. Telling him that you care about him would require you to be open, tell a lie and be vulnerable. Holding back is being strong. It is sticking to your guns and saying this is what I feel and I won't give in just because you pressure me to.
It is great the cottage is available. Take advantage of it. Time alone to think about your future and to get some peace is definitely a good option.
I will not lose your message. I am thinking about a way to save them so I can have access anytime.
I will be here tonight if you need me,
No, dark and lonely is how you feel in the situation you are in. It is not who you are. Just a few days ago you were happy and free. So this is about your situation. You are going back to a marriage where you feel dominated and controlled. In order to stay in the relationship, you have to forfeit feeling good about yourself and your freedom- two very important parts of you. You got to bring these parts of yourself out this past week and now you have to let them go again and tuck them away. I believe that you are mourning this as a loss.
It is alright to feel dark and sad about your situation. That is good actually. It means that you recognize it for what it is. If you were happy being abused and overwhelmed, I would worry about you. You are reacting appropriately. The time will come that you will use how you feel now to motivate yourself to climb out of the darkness and into the light of freedom.
Give yourself time to adjust. Do something good for yourself, like you did on vacation. Treat yourself with extra tender loving care. Allow yourself time to adjust and take is slowly. You coped before and you can again. But also have hope. The changes you are making and the way you are looking at your situation is changing bit by bit. This will add up to you making a big change someday soon. I see the change and I think K does too. You are going to be just fine, Rose.
You're welcome, Rose. Let me know how you are tomorrow. You sounded so down I just want to be sure you are ok.
Rose, I understand the unsettled feeling. It is expected with having to face dealing with such a awful situation as Dave presents. Think of it as a child who must go back to her abusive home after being in a safe, warm place. This is what you face. You are no longer a child being abused, but you are an adult in an abusive situation. It brings out your child inside and the adult who wants to do something about it but feels helpless and anxious about attempting it.
Your feeling that you must spend the day with Dave against your will is a sign that you are abused. And he feels free enough to tell you off for making a personal choice. He sees you taking freedom where he has not given his approval and he is threatened so he takes action to protect himself. Where on earth does he get that right? Who is he that he can force you to do something you do not want to do? How do you feel about it?
PS Thank you for the picture of you! You're beautiful.
Don't ask me why I posted a pic of me! Can't scrub it now! Took it this am on webcam....!
I walked with him. We were strangers. I can't wait to be free.
These pics are much more interesting.. some I didn't get to send from St Ives.
The shop was AMAZING (Kudos) I thought of you the whole time I was in there,(I spent at least an hour in there, plus 2 further visits!) it was jam packed full, as you can see; there were glass cabinets each with different coloured gems and jewellery. I took a pic of the blue one. I'll add it in a minute. You would have LOVED it.
I've probably overloaded this thread somewhat now, so I'll start afresh later.I so hope this worked
The pictures all came through. They are fun to look at. Thank you for thinking of me on your trip. I am very flattered I agree, I would have loved Kudos. So many blues things to play with! And I did enjoy the picture of you. I understand it makes you feel vulnerable. But I liked your picture. Now I have even a better idea of you and can think about you when I write!
You walked with Dave. How did you feel about it? I know you said you felt like the two of you were strangers. And you cannot wait to be free. What happens for you inside when Dave pushes you into these types of situations?
I thought of you all the while on my trip, not just in the shop!! I wrote the poems for you, I wanted to share it all with you. It made me happy to be sharing with you. Thank you for playing such a big part in my life lately. I really can't tell you......
It is incredible how you know how I feel. I'm glad you liked my pic, it does make me feel vulnerable being out there, but I hope it's just for you and me. I don't know what made me post it, but I'm glad I did, it's from this morning as I was writing by the pond.
I felt horrible, sick, anxious being in his sole company- it should have been a beautiful, peaceful, happy and relaxing walk, with all the dogs, who were having a lovely time. I felt cornered into going, he would have been very upset if I'd said I'd rather not. I wanted to keep him happy, both the children had said they didn't want to go, he was very cross with them, especially Poppy. I feel like there is so much that I do just to keep him happy. But bc I kept him happy he wants to hug me, says come back to me Rose. I had to come to my room at the earliest possible time this evening. But he made me say goodnight to him properly. I feel all tensed up inside, tears prickling, just writing about it, that I have to go through with hugs and being held close. I feel I have an immense aversion which I have to force myself to swallow. Thank you for understanding the unsettled feeling. It's like a weight in my chest, a lump in my throat, a pressure in my head, that disturbs my thinking, a prickling of my skin, an irritability.
I'm going to think up something to post on a new thread. It might just be For Kate, but I'll try and be a bit more imaginative!!
Rose, I'm sorry. That is a horrible thing to go through, feeling forced to be with Dave. Can I ask- what do you feel would happen if you said no? Are you fearful that he might hurt you physically? I know from what you have said before that he can be incredibly overwhelming and angry if he does not get his way. Is this what prevents you from refusing?
I understand very much your need to keep him happy. It is very common in abusive relationships to want to keep the peace. It feels good when they are happy and non threatening. You feel safer and more in control. But you also have an added issue. Dave starts to push himself on you and pretends you care about him. Or he may just not even see how you react. What do you feel it is?
I can't tell you how I enjoyed your trip! I felt I was almost there too from all the pictures you sent and your descriptions. Your poems were beautiful too. But best of all was seeing you so happy. I was grinning every time I read your posts.
You can start the new thread any way you wish. Because it has my name on it, the other experts will let it go. They may see what is on it, but they are also therapists so therefore they respect your privacy.
We could also go private if you want. The moderator could set it up for you and your questions would just go to my email only, not on the JA queue. But it is completely up to you.
I have a few appointments tomorrow, just to let you know. I didn't want you to feel I was ignoring you. I will write back as soon as I can.
Have a good night Rose. Sleep well
I am so sorry to hear that you had your credit used like that! It is a hard thing to think that someone could be so cold hearted and hurt other people that way. I had my card stolen once and it bothered me for a while. I hope you don't owe any money because of it. Most credit companies, thankfully, are very fair about not charging people.
It sounds like Dave is making you responsible for how he feels. But he does this by minimizing how you feel so he can take what he needs. It is a very common abuse tactic and one that an abuser will use to make you and your needs inconsequential so they don't have to deal with them. Minimizing is a form of denial as well.
He is telling you that you need lots of hugs and kisses because that is what he wants. So he minimizes your feelings and puts his in their place. You don't need hugs and kisses, you need out. Out of your marriage and Dave out of your life. But if Dave feels he can bully you into complying, then he can ignore your needs and basically take what he wants from you.
By minimizing you, Dave taps into your low self esteem and uses that against you. He can then make you question reality, your own perception and your own feelings. This keeps you confused and unsure of yourself which also keeps you from leaving.
Dave's abuse can make you feel that you want to run. It is natural to want to get away from someone who is hurting you so deeply. Plus, you are not getting your needs met, you are just giving parts of yourself away to please him. It is all take and no return. That will drain you and take away your hope. This follows a pattern that you are used to from your childhood. You may feel that since you could not fight it then, you should not try to fight it now so you give in to keep the peace and to make everything stay "normal", behavior that you understand. You give away your rights in the relationship so Dave will get what he needs.
There is a sense of powerlessness and helplessness in an abusive relationship. Coming to understand the value of your feelings and perceptions is very important to counteract these feelings. It is the way to move away from Dave and the abuse and onward to healthy relationships. I think you do have a strength in you that will eventually help you out of this situation. Working towards recognizing it and using it to help yourself get out of your marriage is important.
It sounds like you felt defeated when you went to the doctors and tried to make the appointment. I suspect it is connected with the feeling of needing to give up and make yourself disappear like you need to do with Dave. What happens for you when you are faced with pushing your needs out there and wanting to be taken care of? What goes on internally, in your mind and with your feelings? What stops you from saying "I need this"?
My appointments today are not related to therapy, unfortunately. I have a doctor's appointment and I need to go to my son's school around lunch. I hope the doctor's appointment goes quickly (it usually does so I'm hopeful!). But I will enjoy seeing my son. He is in the second grade and still in that innocent stage. Kids are adorable when they are so young. They are cute too when they are older, but they don't like to cuddle so much then!
I'll talk with you soon, Rose. I hope your day gets better. I will be thinking of you!
Sounds like you have your hands full! Bean soup and bread- yum!
Yes, I did get cuddles. My son is not old enough yet to push me away and say "Mom!" no hugging in front of my friends! Good thing too.
Hope the kids' homework goes smoothly.
I'll talk to you soon,
My son is my youngest and only boy. He is 8 (just turned 8 last month). Kids here in the U.S. start school at age 5 or 6 with Kindergarten then go on to 1st. grade, 2nd grade, etc until 12th grade, which they are usually 17 or 18 by then. Then they are off to college (or university), hopefully!
I have two older girls, ages 12 and 14 (like Poppy, right?). One is in middle school, 7th grade, and the other in high school, 9th grade. I do miss when they were younger. They grow so fast, don't they?! But I find each age has it's good and it's bad and all are fun. It's just a joy to see them grow.
I'm glad your credit card mess got sorted out. It is always a new level of stress dealing with something like that. And the thieves are getting smarter and smarter at finding ways to get at the information.
I am interested in the way you describe being knocked back by Dave and being upset with yourself for not being prepared. The blame and the responsibility appears to be on you. I am wondering about how you perceive Dave's responsibility in all of this?
When you tried to get the doctor's appointment, you were seeing the situation as you see yourself at work and at home, as the person who steps back and allows others' needs before her own. Who does not want to be a bother or burden. Who tends to others and doesn't want to inconvenience anyone else but herself.
This behavior and point of view worked well when you were growing up in a maladaptive family filled with dysfunctional behavior. You had to adapt to survive and work around the absence of love, affection and affirmation that you are ok for who you are. But this system you set up for yourself does not work in the world you live in now. So you become frustrated and upset (resulting in crying) when you try to use what you learned as a child in your life now. The doctor's receptionist did not come from your world as you learned it when you were a child. She was functioning with a different system. So when you tried to put yourself last and kept blocking her from fulfilling your needs, the conversation broke down and you ended up not only without an appointment, but frustrated and crying as a result.
So realizing that the behavior you learned as a child no longer works for you is important. Just as any other abused child grows up to respond to the world as she was taught to at home, you have stuck to what you were taught and keep trying to fit it into the world you live in, like fitting a square peg in a round hole. It does not work. So you end up sad, alone and frustrated. And you never get your needs met.
Making small changes like learning what is "normal" and what needs you should have had fulfilled as a child helps you grow and start to fill in the blanks. It shows you what should have been, if Rose had been allowed to grow up in a loving and affectionate home. Here is a book you may want to consider:
An Adult Child's Guide to What's 'Normal' by John C. Friel Ph.D. and Linda D. Friel M.A.
It describes what happens in a normal family and how it compares to what you ended up with. It guides you on dealing with dysfunction and how it affects adult children from abusive childhoods.
I hope you sleep well, Rose. Don't work too hard tomorrow!
Rose, it was a good post. I am glad you did not take it away. It is an expression of how you feel right now. Feeling like you wish you were dead on the side of the road is telling you that you feel defeated and that dying seems like a good option. It also says that facing your issues makes you hurt badly. Who would not consider death an easier option? It is common to feel that way. (just please let me know if you start feeling worse)
Changing the way you view things is not easy. It is easier to keep the same pattern and not need to face your past and how you were taught to put your needs last. But in order to get what you need out of life, change is a good thing. It is hard now but eventually, you will find that you can feel as you did on vacation all the time. You can be free. You no longer need to find a place to hole up and hide in order to get some peace.
Hurting as you do is natural. You are starting to dig down in and look at the reasons behind why you feel the way you do and why you react to the world as you do. Understanding and accepting is most of the battle. Learning how to react differently will take some time. But each need you have met will feel good and keep your motivation going.
Allow yourself to feel sad but also accept that this is a process. And it sometimes is going to feel overwhelming and hard. But it will be easy sometimes too. Because things will click. You will gain understanding and insight and your reactions will start to make sense.
Let me ask this- how does the thought of change make you feel? Can you picture yourself without Dave and living a different life?
Rose, you are very determined! I can hear that in your words. Hang on to that, it will get you through.
It is understandable that you feel you want to go on the roadside and be unnoticed. To be noticed in your family as a child was not good. And it is the same now. To be noticed by Dave is to either get reamed out or affection you want nothing to do with and that makes you feel ill. Being noticed means you have to matter. And I believe you do not feel you matter.
It is also hiding. It is easier to hide. But making changes does not mean you need to get climbing gear and start over the top right now. It means that you take time to look at the mountain, decide how to climb it then get the support you need to climb it.
Right now, we are just looking at the mountain. You have already made some trial runs. You went away which is one big trial run. You have said no to Dave, another trial run. You have talked to Sam and Poppy about leaving, another run. And you did these things very well. You faced them and still went forward.
We can also take different paths and still make progress. One good way to scope your mountain is to take a look at your rights as a person and in a relationship. Or we can talk about a back up plan for when you do leave. We can also spend time on your childhood talking about how it relates to what you feel now about yourself. All of these are tools we can use to plan out your climb.
Do you feel setting a date would help? Some people work better with a deadline and others feel it is a hindrance.
This is also about your self esteem. You came back to Dave and he made sure you felt unsure about yourself again. He transferred all kinds of bad feelings to you. And your training from childhood opened you up to accepting it. This can change as well. When we work on your rights you can practice changing how you feel about what Dave does and how you can respond.
Things can change. It takes time but you will get there, Rose. I'm with you and I'll be here as long as you feel you need me.
You are welcome, Rose! I hope your session with K goes well.
Good night Rose. Sleep well.
I'll talk with you tomorrow,
I am sorry to hear that your session was tough. When your emotions are that high, it is sometimes a tough struggle to get through because of the intensity of your feelings. And sometimes you don't know that a session helped until later when the pieces come together.
Good for you! You went to the surgery and saw the doctor. That is great. I hope you feel happy for yourself because that is not easy to do. It is so common to experience anxiety and resistance when you have to see a doctor (As you know from my experience earlier in the week. I just didn't want to go!). This is one of those cases that you just have to allow yourself to experience the feelings that come with facing a doctor's appointment. I know of no one that skips and smiles on the way to the doctors!
My concern is how you feel you would make something up when the doctor asked you about your home life. Or that you are mad or muddled. I can see where you might get that, from Dave and your childhood. But there is a line that is crossed when you take it in and believe it. Can you tell me more about what makes you feel this way?
You can certainly not take your medication if you do not wish to. If you feel you are able to function without it, then that is fine. How do you usually feel without your medication? Also consider how you felt yesterday. Do you feel going off your medication would make days like that worse? If not, then it is certainly a good idea to consider either greatly reducing your meds or going off them completely.
I am glad you are ok with working on your childhood. I believe many of the thoughts and beliefs you have are deeply rooted in your childhood (which is common with everyone). We can work on examining them and changing your thoughts and feelings about them.
When you think about what you learned in your childhood about yourself and your environment, what comes to mind? What messages were you given? Also, what were the rules in your house?
I can tell when you are online, I think. I say that because the JA system gives false messages sometimes. Others have told me that they thought I wasn't on line when I really was, and vice versa. Very confusing. But I'm generally on during the early morning, late morning and early afternoon, and I also check in at night.
The JA system should allow you to start a new thread. You can always put it through as a "request" and I can get it that way. Just put my name in front like you usually do and I will try to be on when you send it. Just let me know a good time for you.
With the doctor situation, any progress is good progress. You went, talked to her and did get some things addressed. That is a good step. There are many people who will not go to the doctor at all even if they need to. Seeing your situation as a glass half full (to borrow the saying) and you were somewhat successful is a different spin on saying that it is half empty, or that you failed.
In order for Dave to gain control over you and keep it, he must convince you that you are at fault for what happens and that you are mad. He uses intimidation (yelling and threatening) blaming (this is your fault for making me do this), and shaming (you are dumb, stupid or do not know what you are doing) in order to do it. He dominates so he can keep you feeling like you do. Questioning yourself is the result. If you cannot feel confidence in telling others what you are going through, then you are easier to control. And Dave does not have to face that he is the wrong one here, which would go against his view of himself and the narcissism he most likely suffers from.
The face that Dave is not doing anything right now does not mean he has changed or that he has stopped abusing you. Abusers can choose when and where they abuse. They stop when they choose to and continue whenever they feel the need. It is in their control.
Also, remember Dave did yell at you after you got back from vacation. You went to your parents home and he came to find you and yelled at you. That is abuse. He also coerced you into hugging him and kissing him. You did not want to but he pushed anyway. That is abuse. So he is abusing you.
You are not mad or crazy. What you feel and what you describe is very real. You would have to be the best actress in the world to make this stuff up or be showing signs of delusional behavior in order for this to be falsified. And to what end? You may convince me that there is abuse but so what? That does not change anything. Plus you are not trying to get attention (far from it), you are not gaining anything from this and you are not profiting. So there is no legitimate reason for you to make this up or inflate things. It is most likely your self confidence that makes you fear making a mistake when telling the doctor. If you choose to tell her sometime in the future, write down what you would want to say and we can go over it together. Though I understand that you live in a small place and don't want your personal business known, your doctor may be very trustworthy and just want to help. You will need to be the judge of that part.
Childhood tomorrow sounds fine.
Yes, I think you might be right about the online/offline thing. I did not think of that. I'll have to see if it happens next time I'm on.
You're welcome, Rose. It is good to know that you feel better. It always makes me smile to hear that!
I will go off now and look for your question and post an answer so you know I got it.
Talk to you tomorrow!
Here are some pics of our home. It looks a bit odd without many windows, but we were severely6 restricted with making holes in ancient cob walls to make windows. We just about have enough light! The bedrooms are downstairs off the hall, and upstairs is open plan with a study space above the kitchen. Sam's bedroom is the wooden shed in the second picture (not the aviary!) Jack in the last picture is our old and deaf dog who is getting older daily (well obviously, but you know what I mean!)
Hope you like
I love your home! It is so cozy and warm. Jack is cute too! Sweet puppy. It's nice to know how you live. It's beautiful where you are.
Thanks for posting the pictures.
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