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2013 Cummins ISX basket case! In 9 months it has been in…

2013 Cummins ISX basket...

2013 Cummins ISX basket case! In 9 months it has been in shop 3 times for motor failure. It has had all new pistons/liners, head, egr cooler, turbo, actuator, egr tube, compressor, radiator,etc. In shop 9 months ago had overhead ran because of derate poor performance. 1000 miles later drops liner #5, 47000 miles and 2.5 months later motor down again #2,5,6 cylinders out! I had all pistons and liners replaced. NOW 30000 miles truck is back in shop with camshaft failure how is this possible?

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the complete model and serial number of your machine?

2013 Volvo VNL670 Cummins ISX vin# *****

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the equipment mechanic to know before I connect you?

Everything has been replaced on this truck except CAC and fuel pump at this point.

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Answered in 1 hour by:
9/16/2018
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago
Mike Mcmillan
Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 6,775
Experience: Volvo/Mack Master Tech, Certified with Cummins, Eaton, GM, Hino, Detroit Diesel
Verified

Hello, My name is***** am a Volvo and Mack Master tech, as well as a Cummins Certified Tech, Please allow me to assist you with your issue.

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
Hey Steve! This is Jack thanks for replying.
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

I have a couple questions for you regarding the history of these repairs. What all happened to cause the engine to be overhauled to start with? What lead the tech to check the overhead after only running the truck for nine months? When you say dropped liner, do you mean the liner cracked or broke? What is wrong with cylinders 2, 5, nd 6? Has this unit ever had a High pressure fuel pump put on it? If it has did the ceramic plungers break in the old one?

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
1st time in shop was Dec 21 code spn 1324 fmi 2 misfire #2. Tech stated valves down bared engine over to lift pressure off valves removed injector to perform cylinder leak down test found air blowing back into intake. need to remove rockers and adjust valves then pressurize cylinder again to insure no valve seats are damaged.... He adjust all intake/exhaust barke rockers to spec found all intake rockers too tight and exhaust rockers too loose. install # 2 nozzle and fuel line. install valve cover and egr crossover pipe with new gaskets. Topped off coolant and hookup cummins insite. clear faults and tried to run compression test. test kept failing. start and run engine. No engine miss present and no codes returned on road test.
Dec 29,(###) ###-####miles later truck went totally down no power at all towed to shop had codes for #5 cylinder misfire along with other codes. Shop states: Found active #5 inj-performed cylinder balance test confirmed #5 misfire. Removed valve cover and visually inspected. No obvious issue rolled enge over to #5 inner exhaust to tight on bridge. Backed lash adjuster off and found inner exh valve to high suspect missing valve seat. Removed accessories to get access to head. removed head found inner exhaust seat gone out of bore. found turbo passing oil and shaft bent on exhaust side. turbine wheel hitting housing . pistion damaged. They replaced head, #5, turbo and actuator. mileage 608426 Came out of shop on Jan. 26, 2018
On May 23, 2018
Truck derate no power or oil pressure went to shop again this time #2, #5,#6 misfire and #6 has a hole in the pisten. Debree has damage other piston and also has glazing. Warranty paid for 3 cylinders to be replaced along with EGR cooler and I paid out of pocket and replace the remaining 3 cylinders. I think the mileage was at 652k Came out of the shop June 29, 2018.
Aug 14, 2018 truck running really rough shop replaces camshaft positioning sensor for spn 723 fmi 2 code which I have neglected to mention we have had for 12 months and has never been addressed only get cleared out after a repair. Needless to say truck was released and made it 20 miles down the road and rough running still. Went back in shop with spn 4363 code outlet nox sensor (which had been replaced in April) it checked out and shop says they found a common wire that was the problem. Also while setting at the shop waiting to go in bay truck oil pressure dropped to nothing and shop replaced oil pressure sensor.
Sept 14, 2018 Driver started had a spn 27 fmi 2 popup and truck started immediately with a slight miss after he had pressed clutch to release cruise control and step on pedal. This was in the night when exiting ramp to park in the night. Next morning truck went into regen and 3 codes popped spn 1322, 1324, 1326. Shop states cam is bad shows flaking, flat spot on roller and #2 bridge was loose. mileage 685kSorry I didn't answer the high pressure fuel pump to my knowledge no everything on truck would be factory spec.
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

Well, from my experience and what I have read there could be a few things going on here. The valves that are mushrooming in the head is not a common thing on these motors. The Volvo engines had a big issue with that but not cummins. We have had issues with the cams flaking though. Cummins has linked this to improper maintenance. Which is both oil change intervals and valve adjustments. The frequent need for a valve adjustment was a good indication that there had to be another culprit to needing them. The oil pressure is what is the most concerning. The cams and rocker arms in this motor are the last things to get oil, which may be why you are having upper end issues. The piston cooling jets pay a big role as well, What I would do with the mileage that is on it, I would have the oil pan dropped, and the oil pump. I would have the bottom of the oil pan checked for any signs of ceramic. I would also have them take the oil pump apart and check the rotors and housing, and check the relief valve for scoring. They are probably going to find that the oil pump is bad. The oil pressure sensors in these engine hardly ever go bad. But with the rash of other items I would look there. If they do find any ceramic debris then the high pressure fuel pump will need to be replaced. Cummins had a recall for these pumps years ago, It has since expired about a year and a half ago. Inside the pumps there are 2 plungers with extremely tight tolerances. They initially installed ceramic plungers inside these pumps. Then they realized that was a really bad idea and found that when the ceramic breaks it destroys everything with how strong it is. One of the plungers can break and you might not even notice a performance power effect. That is what I would have them check out on this.

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
Okay I did fail to mention that the oil pump was replaced along with EGR cooler in May/June repair. Would the plunger in the fuel pump failure carryover into damaging the engine both times? Also since the oil pan has been off in both of those repairs wouldn't they have already found ceramic in the oil? Also #2 cylinder misfire codes happen to be a common denominator in all the repairs would that be common?
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

The plunger in the fuel pump could carry over. Some shops do not go thru and clean the oil pans out when they have them off. Is there a reason why it was changed at that repair? Did it have metal that had gone thru it? Though when the engine had kits replaced the pan should have been cleaned out good in which case someone should have spotted any ceramic in the pan. Did they say for sure that the cam is flaking bad enough to cause the excessive gap in that valve?

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
Also what about oil starvation? The #6 piston had a hole in it and I've been told that common reason is oil starvation. If so and your saying the cams and rockers are the last to get oil that sounds like an oil starvation issue also. I'm thinking that way back in Dec. 2017 when they pulled the cover and found intake rockers to tight there must have been an issue starting to form. At this point we had put 120k on the truck when this issue was found and blamed on bad overhead adjustment and everything was suppose to be set to spec then.The shop in Jan. dropped the pan when they replaced the head. I know it was also dropped and this isn't funny but when the motor went down the second time the 2nd shop found a scotch brite pad in the pan. Yes they are saying flaking is bad enough to cause excess gapping. I can't imagine that the cover has been off this engine 3 times in 9 months and no cam damage has ever been stated and then with in 30000 miles of complete over hauls it's got so much flaking and degrading that fast. Since I've owned the truck the oil has been changed every15-20k, all filters have been changed. Actually when we changed crankcase filter on May 19th.
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

Did they find out why the piston had a hole in it? Were those cylinders 2, 5 and 6 burnt and scored up? If the piston had a hole in it, they had to be caused by something internal. I have seen valves chunk out and go back thru the intake valves and into another cylinder before. The oil starvation is an issue. I have also seen cam bearings spinning in the head and dropping oil pressure in the overhead and causing issues. If it is starvation the shop should see signs of excessive wear in the upper end or maybe even bluing

I wouldn't be surprised if that cam has been like that for a while. The problem now a days is that shops are all about keeping time to a minimum so techs have to rush thru and overlook things like that. I bet that the cam just finally got to the point that it became abrasive and got into the roller.

The scotch brite pad is interesting though. Cummins issued a series of bulletins years ago about them and the little cookie cleaning disc. Techs were using them to clean off gasket surfaces more focused on the oil cooler area. Well those disc are made of aluminum oxide. That is extremely abrasive. When it gets into the engine oil it eliminates all the lubricating properties.

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Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

I would have them check the rocker shafts in the unit, and make sure no cam bearings are showing signs of spinning. I have had those rocker shafts wear out bad to the point it will throw the adjustment way off. I have also had them seize on the rocker shaft as well. The cam bearings are a simple thing to look for because they all have a V notch cut into the bearing that can be used as a reference to make sure they are lined up with the oil holes.

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
Will do. Warranty ran out less then a 1000 miles ago so all this expense and now this isn't setting well.
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

You can ask the dealer to submit a request for goodwill to their local cummins rep. The worse they can say is no. If you provide them with all the documentation for everything you have described here they may pick up 50% of the repair. That is usually the most they will go which is good in some ways because then it allows you to have parts and service warranty on that repairs since it was paid for by you in their eyes

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Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

If you would, would you please rate my answers to you as this is how the site credits my time. Please let me know if you have any other questions on this issue. Thanks

Mike Mcmillan
Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 6,775
Experience: Volvo/Mack Master Tech, Certified with Cummins, Eaton, GM, Hino, Detroit Diesel
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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
Shop replaced camshaft said since the 30 days that I had it in there and had all new engine rebuild till now it the top side had been starved of oil.
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

Did they look into why the upper end was starving for oil at all?

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
There words to me when I asked what caused this when it was diagnosed was "Don't know there's 685k on it and even though you just had it the head overhauled the camshaft could have just failed". After I paid my bill they said oh by the way from the time we overhauled it 30k miles ago that top side has been starved for oil don't know why?
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

Well I hope that they did not leave one of the cylinder block protective plugs in when they put the head back on it the last time. Did they have to replace any cam bearings at all? Do you have any pictures of the roller on the failed rocker arm?

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
they SPN 27 FMI 4 code has came back up within 350 miles of leaving the shop! This is the original code we had which soon flipped to SPN 1322 & 1324
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

I am sure the turbo is probably coked up with soot and debris from a valve not opening all the way

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
Awesome! So 70k miles on a new turbo and they tell me , cause I asked! Is the new turbo, egr and actuator okay and they said yes.
Customer reply replied 4 years ago
ANDDDDD we just got a code SPN 3058 FMI 16!
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

Did they say anything in the tech notes about removing the turbo actuator and checking the sector shaft swing? The spn 3058 fmi 16 is for egr flow data valid but above normal operating range.

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Customer reply replied 4 years ago
They didn't check anything except diagnosed it as a faulty camshaft. They replaced lever rocker, camshaft, camshaft cover gasket. Notes on job order states: HOoked up computer and printed codes. attached to RO ran cyl. cutout found dead miss on #2 cyl. romoved air cleaner and piping, removed valve cover, found valve bridge on #2 cyl laying down on head, checked for other damage. found several cam rollers and cam shaft bad. quoted parts. R?R camshaft, also found #1 intake rocker failed. Replace #1, #2 intake rockers. reassemble truck and top off coolant. clear faults and road test. (they didn't road test) operation ok.
Technician: Mike Mcmillan, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech replied 4 years ago

They found several cam rollers bad but only replaced 2 rocker arms? The rocker arms are made to go before the cam. I really hate when dealers do this because it puts a bad name out there for dealerships,

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