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Alex with the 4700 international. On the pinout you sent me…

Hi Alex it’s me again...
Hi Alex it’s me again with the 4700 international.On the pinout you sent me it shows pin 28 ground for GPR 0v at all times & pin 38 gpr control 0v=gpr on 12v=gpr offSomething is off here. The gpr wouldn’t work that way, maybe a typo.On top of that, I get 12v from pin 38 with key on and on pin 28 I get NOTHINH at all, no 12v or ground. So my GPR never engages.GPR has been tested.
Continuity & resistance checks to all glow plugs, their harnesses back to the relay, & valve cover harness.What am I missing?
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Are you off today?
Answered in 16 hours by:
3/24/2018
Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 1,826
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter
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Hi there. My name is ***** *****

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If you prefer to wait for the other expert you were previously dealing with , I can opt out and you can wait for him . But if you need help right away , I am in and out throughout the day and I am quite knowledgeable with International trucks. Over 15 years experience . Let me know... Thanks

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Thanks for the response Andy, I have waited on the other guy since yesterday so you and I can proceed.The last 8 of my vin is YH 229157 and the truck is a 2000 international 4700 t444e.I have a code 251 GPR SELF TEST FAIL.Upon trouble shooting I am not receiving the ground signal to the GPR from the ecm.

thx I will look it up for you!

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OUTPUT FUNCTIONS

Glow Plug Relay - Controls the current flow to the glow plugs. Glow plug relay "ON" time is controlled by the ECM and is a function of engine coolant temperature, barometric pressure and battery voltage. "ON" time normally varies between 10 to 120 seconds. The glow plugs are self limiting glow plugs and do not require to be cycled on and off. (The glow plug relay will only cycle on and off repeatedly when there is a system voltage condition greater than 13.0 volts.)

Glow Plug Wait Lamp - Lamp that indicates to the operator when the glow plugs have been on long enough to crank the engine. It is controlled by the ECM. Wait light on time is a function of engine coolant temperature, barometric pressure and battery voltage. "ON" time normally varies between 2 to 10 seconds.

NOTE: Wait light on time is independent from glow plug relay on time).

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FAULT DETECTION/MANAGEMENT

An open or shorted to ground glow plug relay or wait lamp circuit can be detected by an on demand output circuit check performed during the engine off tests.

Glow plug and glow plug harness problems can not be detected by the ECM.

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GLOW PLUG SYSTEM EXTENDED SYSTEM DESCRIPTION

FUNCTION

The Navistar engine control system includes a Glow Plug Control System that controls the current flow to the glow plugs. Glow plug relay "ON" time is controlled by the ECM and is a function of Engine Coolant Temperature, Barometric Pressure, and Battery Voltage. Glow plug "ON" time varies between 10-120 seconds. Glow plugs are self limiting glow plugs and do not require to be cycled on and off. The glow plug relay will cycle on and off repeatedly, if battery voltage is greater than 13.0 volts.

OPERATION

Refer to Figure 3.107 - Glow Plug Control Circuit Diagram for the following discussion.

Glow Plug System operation is dependent upon engine coolant temperature, barometric pressure and battery voltage. When the ignition switch is placed in the "ON" position,Terminal B (coil side) of the glow plug relay is supplied with battery voltage. Terminal A (coil side) of the relay is connected to Terminal 58 of the ECM. The ECM supplies battery ground to the glow plug relay coil via an internal driver transistor when coolant temperature, barometric pressure and battery voltage conditions require the glow plug system to warm the engine for starting.

Applying ground (B-) to terminal A causes the relay to switch and apply battery voltage (present at the large terminal containing a single wire leading to and connected to the B+ terminal of the starter solenoid) to the other large terminal which contains two wires. These wires now supply battery power to the glow plugs in the right and left cylinder heads.

The Glow Plug Wait Lamp is also turned on by the ECM when the glow plug relay is enabled.

NOTE: Wait light on time is independent from glow plug relay on time.

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Please let me know if you need anything else but this should get you by ! Thanks and please do not forget to rate my prompt service to you sir! Thanks for using Just Answer!

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok it shows the GPR control to be at pin 58, do you know if that’s the gray connector or the black connector on the pcm.Yesterday the other guy sent me a pinout for the ecm it showed pin 28 & 38 on the gray connector was for the gpr
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
My wait lamp works fine, I did continuity & resistance test on all glow plugs, and wiring but couldn’t find issues.I removed the GPR and tested it off the truck it works perfectly.

Let me see if I can help in that area . Please accept my answer and I will dig that up for you. Thanks

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I tested the wires going to the GPR and here’s what I got.Coinstant power- good
Glow plug feed was 0v- goodBut on the 2 small terminals is where I found issues.1 of them had absolutely nothing at all with key on.The other had 12v+ key onI never got a ground
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
If I accept your answer now won’t that end the conversation immediately though?

No it won't ... and Thanks! Just looking up wiring

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That should definitely help !

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
There’s is NO PIN 58 on that schematic like there is on the 1st schematic that you sent me.....

You have a t444e engine . That is the diagram for it.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
the 1st schematic you sent me was for a different engine?

You were with Alex

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My name is Andy

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Would you like to continue over a phone conversation to help to straighten this all out

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I am available to do a call right now

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I did check your vin number and you have a 4700 with a t444e engine.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
No. I’m aware of who you are. But if you look at the 1st schematic you sent me Today it shows GPR control at pin 58.The pcm pin out that you sent me(which is the same thing Alex sent me last night) shows pin 28 & 38.

You need to go to the gray ecm connector and disconnect the connector from ecm. Then find 28 and ohm it out for continuity to the smaller wire at glow plug relay . Then do the same with the other wire on 38 to the glow plug relay again. This is the only t444e wiring diagram throughout all the years. the other diagrasm must be a typo ( number error ) . I would trust this diagram before the other one.

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If you check those for continuity as shown in this diagram, and they do have continuity , then this must be the correct diagram.

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There is no other.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Then I did that yesterday and it checked out fine...would a bad ECT or BARO sensor prevent the ecm from sending the ground signal to the GPR?

Is it possible that it may be disabled in programming? Has anyone connected to the ecm lately and perhaps played with programming? I know there is a feature that can disable the glow plug functionality.

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The other thing you can try is load test that wiring to see if it able to carry a load in case the wire is hanging on by a thread somewhere( frayed badly )

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You can also reconnect all , then go to the glow plug relay and remove the ground wire from the ecm on that relay and provide your own ground momentarily to see if the rest of the circuit is energizing fine.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
No one has disabled it in programmingI’ll just keep trying.What is the cheapest scanner I can buy for my truck?
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That is the program . You will need a laptop to put it on , then an interface. I recommend a Nexiq USB Link interface to connect to the truck

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You should check the temperature sensors when truck has been sitting for a few hrs to see if they are all reading close to the same as ambient temperature ion your area. That way you know they are accurate.

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Same with baro ... check it against your current baro reading where you are.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok the last Dropbox link you sent me for the service max isn’t working

Unfortunately , I have to leave for awhile but will check in later to see how it is going. If you want to call and discuss further , just accept the phone call .

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One moment

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Click on the download link at the bottom of the page .

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Is there anything else you need ?

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I must run out for awhile but will check in later. Please do not forget to rate me and accept my answer.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
That’s it thanks, ***** ***** now

If you need a phone call later , we can diagnose together

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Ok thanks

Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 1,826
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter
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Satisfied Customers: 1,826
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Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter

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