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I have a PX-8 badged cummins ESN-73039806. I am looking for…

I have a PX-8...

I have a PX-8 badged cummins ESN-73039806. I am looking for the return rate of the HPCR pump and the lift pump pressure spec

Mechanic's Assistant: What's the make/model/year of your truck? Engine type?

10/2009 kenworth t300. PX-8 Paccar (cummins)

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your truck yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes, Have not replaced anything as of yet, just looking for test spec.

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the truck mechanic to know before I connect you?

It has a hard/no start after the first start of the day. It will run all day if you do not shut it off, but if you shut it off with in the first 10 minutes of a cold start it will start and die, the fuel filters will be down 1/2 way and have to reprime system. Have checked lift pump pressure and running pressure on secondary filter, also checked high pressure relief valve on rail for leaking. If we remove the banjo bolt at the return port and seperate the return from the hpcr pump from the other return it will never act up.

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Answered in 1 hour by:
3/15/2018
Daniel Wilson
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 6,835
Experience: Owner at DJ Wilson
Verified
Hi my name is***** will be glad to try to help you work this out. So you were looking for information on the return fuel test for this engine? I will have to dig through my files and follow up with you on that.
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Did you happen to find anything out. Also is there an orfice or pressure check valve for the the return side. We are getting a loss of prime after the second start after a cold soak.

Remove the injector return line from the back of the head see if there is excessive return fuel to tank.

Maximum Leakage During 45 Seconds300 cc [10.1 oz]

If 300 cc [10.1 oz] of fuel leaks from the injectors in less than 45 seconds, there is at least one loose or damaged high pressure fuel connector and/or injector.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
OK, Could I also get the primer pump and gear lift pump pressure spec and the return rate for the high pressure common rail pump.
There seems to be a little bit of discrepancy between the paccar and Cummins and I don't want to give any conflicting specs or information or take that risk. You will likely need DAVIE diagnostic software to do some of the testing and on the commons version you would be using Insite for some of the tests along with test gauges. I'm going to opt out and pass this along to the other professionals on the site as there are a couple who might know a little bit more as far as the differences between using Davie and Insite and I don't want to give any conflicting information. Do not respond back as that would just lock the question back to me but hang tight and hopefully there will be another professional that will be able to take over from here.
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Steven
Steven, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 96
Experience: Volvo/Mack Master Tech, Certified with Cummins, Eaton, GM, Hino, Detroit Diesel
Verified

Hello, My name is***** me to assist you with this. I will attach the fuel system diag test specs and procedures, this will be much easier to follow than walking thru each step. Let me know if you have any questions. The only difference in readings between pac and cummins should be the inlet restriction. Thanks

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Steven
Steven, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 96
Experience: Volvo/Mack Master Tech, Certified with Cummins, Eaton, GM, Hino, Detroit Diesel
Verified
Steven and 87 other Medium and Heavy Trucks Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you. Those were the specs I was needing. Would you happen to know if there is a pressure check valve or orfice installed anywhere in the return system?
There is a check valve that should be fitting in the back of the head. There is the relief valve in the rail. That is all on that engine. Let me know if you need anything else. Thanks.
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Can you think of any reason that this engine would have a start and die with a no start condition (fuel filters will be down 1/2) on the second cold start of the day. The first cold start is fine and will run all day. Entire fuel system has been checked for leaks and pressurized. 1 way check valve was installed between tank and primary filter with no change. Lift pump pressure and output are within in spec, high pressure pump return was checked, and high pressure relief valve was tested.
You either have a draw issue or an air ingestion issue. You have to be careful adding a one way check valve in the suction side because of the added inlet restriction. Usually when a fuel filter is half full it is from a restricted suction side or a low flow low pressure system because the high pressure system demands more it can pull air into the system, if that makes sense. I would place a clear fuel line from either a chassis mounted fuel filter to the inlet of the engine and see if any air is present. Then also check for air out of the return. I have seen one issue on a cm2350 X15 that had a similar issue a few years ago I was working on. It had a injector that was sticking and sometimes when you shut it off and it was in compression on that cylinder it would force the air back into the fuel system once the rail pressure would drop off. I had to go thru and install the block offs on the rail one cylinder at a time to isolate which injector it was. Hope this helps. Let me know. Thanks.
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Can compression coming through an injector cause excessive air in the hpcr pump return line after a cold soak?
Because of the fuel system routing and the reintroduction of some of the return into the suction system
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Ok, I've got a dumb question, where does it reintroduce return to suction besides the fuel tank
At the fuel return manifold.
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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Is there any way to isolate the return from the suction and bypass where it introduces return to suction?
Phone call session started

Have you tried running a clear fuel line from the inlet to the elect pump? Then out of the pump direct to the HPFP? This will tell if any air ingestion is getting into the fuel on the suction side. The return valve at the injector return block should be checked as well. I looked into the parts on your ESN and it does not have the same rear valve that the X-series has on it. So that air ingestion from the return is not possible on this engine. The system the way it is set up is a pain to get the air out of it. There is a compucheck fitting on top of the engine mounted fuel housing that is made for testing purposes. There is a diag hose made with a orfice that is designed to purge the air out of the system. The clear sight glass lines need placed between the filter housing and the HPFP so the isolation of air ingestion location can be found. Let me know if you have any other questions. I will be available more tomm than I was today. Thanks

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