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Dd15 Engine hard to start after 5 minutes shut down, cranks…

Customer Question
Good morning, Dd15 Engine hard to...
Good morning,
Dd15 Engine hard to start after 5 minutes shut down , cranks for over 7times before starts?!?
I bypass the big filter fuel water separater direct to the fuel housing.
Still same
Submitted: 4 months ago.Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
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3/13/2018
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago
roybelding
roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 7,734
Experience: Shop Froeman for Freightliner Trucks
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hello, my name is ***** ***** I will be glad to assist you. please allow me a couple of minutes to gather some basic info.

Roy

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

is there any external leaks on the tubes, fuel rail or fuel pump??

Roy

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

do you still need any help???

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
No leak
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

do you have a laptop with the DDDL program??

I would start with the FSIC test to see if the injectors are bleeding doen and loosing prime.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I have it, How to get there, please?
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

It is on one of the drop down menus at the top.

You will need the block off caps to perform the test.

It is called FSIC routine

Roy

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

procedure

https://ddcsn-ddc.freightliner.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ddcsn/208-13.pdf

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

Please take a moment and rate my service 3 stars or better. that is the only way the site will pay me for my efforts.

Roy

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

do you have any other questions??

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Which caps would need to block off?
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

you remove one line at a time and block off the fuel rail at that injector. the cpas go where the line came out of the fuel rail

you need 6 caps.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Please can you send a picture
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

look at the fuel rail. you would remve one of the P tubes from the fuel rail to the injector. then you need to cap off the line with the cap. then you start the motor and let the laptop run the test. then it will test the bleed down time. record the bleed down time

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Plug the head or the tube and what the plugs part #
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

plug the fuel rail.

you need to call freightliner for the parts. I dont have part numbers/

Roy

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

1 goes to the injector, remove that, the other end has to come off as well. when you take off the part to the fuel rail, put the cap on there

Roy

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

any update

Please take a moment and rate my service 3 stars or better. that is the only way the site will pay me for my efforts.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Dealer out of plugs
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

did they check if any other dealer had them??

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
None
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

you need these to do the test. can you see if any other shop will lend them to you.

Roy

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

Please take a moment and rate my service 3 stars or better. that is the only way the site will pay me for my efforts.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Changed the fuel pump and still not running
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

why??? you did not do the test yet

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
The customer checked by different Mechanic and said just change it and the fuel on the high pressure on the old one was not flowing when crank the engine
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
When changed the new pump do we need to use the fly wheel timing pin
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Or just align the TI to the dot on the fuel pump
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

thats ok, no need to time.

did you remove the hot pipe and check for fuel in the pipe?? the U pipe to the exhaust manifold in the rear of the motor??

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Any pics please
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
By the way do I need to calibrate the new one
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

no

it is the pipe, passenger rear from the back of the exhaust manifold. It is shaped like a U. It has 2 clamps to remove

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

correct

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
No fuel
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

ok Do you have the DDDL program for running the FSIC test yet?? the next step is this test. you need the caps as well.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Caps back order
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

you need to either borrow them from someone or send this one to a shop that can do the tests

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Computer showing fuel quantity control valve but we change it new came with new fuel pump
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

code??? what code????

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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

157

82.1  SPN 157/FMI 16 - EPA07 - EPA10 - GHG14

Fuel Rail Pressure Too Low

SPN 157/FMI 16

DescriptionFuel Rail Pressure Too Low

Monitored ParameterInjector Cylinder #1 Needle Control Valve

Typical Enabling ConditionsFuel Rail Pressure desired - Fuel Rail Pressure Actual > 200 bar

Monitor SequenceNone

Execution FrequencyContinuous When Enabling Conditions Met

Typical DurationEight Seconds

Dash LampsMIL, CEL

Engine ReactionDerate 25%

VerificationEngine Idle (One Minute)

The Motor Control Module (MCM) monitors the rail pressure and when rail pressure deviation is greater than 200 bar for eight seconds, the MCM sets the code. This fault can occur due to the conditions listed below:

  • External fuel leakage between the high pressure pump and fuel injectors
  • Pressure limiting valve leakage (internal)
  • Fuel filter integrity (loose caps, plugged filters)
  • Fuel supply issues (fuel level, fuel aeration, leaking fuel lines, fuel restrictions)
  • Intermittent loss of engine speed signal
  • High pressure pump internal failure
  • Fuel injector (amplifier or needle) leakage
  • Fuel Contamination
  • Rail pressure sensor
  • Motor Control Module (MCM)

Service Tools Used in the Procedure

Tool NumberDescription

J-48876Test Gauge, Primer Port, HDE

J-48704Caps, HP Fuel Rail, HDE

DiagnosticLink®

NOTE: It is important to obtain information from the customer on when the check engine lamp occurs and if there were any performance concerns or exhaust smoke.

Show/Hide Checkboxes

NOTE: On EPA10 engines with MCM software 7.6 and later, fuel tank level at the time the fault triggered can be viewed in extended data #5, “Enhanced Environmental data” Fuel Tank Level.

NOTE: Do not reset this counter unless the PLV is being replaced.

NOTE: Engines not equipped with a Low Pressure Pump Outlet (LPPO) sensor should utilize J-48706 Fuel Diagnostic Gauge Set to monitor LPPO.

  1. Did SPN 157/FMI 16 appear after the fuel system was repaired or fuel filter maintenance was performed?
    1. Yes; the code may be set due to air in the fuel system. Clear codes and road test to verify complaint. If code does not set, release the vehicle. If code sets, Go to step 2.
    2. No; Go to step 2.
  2. Turn the ignition ON (key ON, engine OFF).
  3. Check and record fuel level in all fuel tanks. Is fuel level blow ¼ tank (25%)?
    1. Yes; add fuel and road test vehicle. If code does not become active during road test, release the truck. If the code becomes active during the road test with over ¼ tank (or 25%) of fuel, Go to step 4.
    2. No; view fuel tank level in extended data (EPA10) or question the driver about the fuel level when the code was set. If the level was under ¼ tank (or 25%), fuel sloshing in the tank could be the cause of aerated fuel that could cause this code. If the fuel level was over ¼ tank (or 25%) when the code was set, Go to step 4.
  4. Check for fuel contamination, including Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF), water, gasoline, kerosene, coolant, etc. Is contamination found?
    1. Yes; refer to section "Contaminated Fluids."
    2. No;Go to step 5.
  5. Visually inspect for external fuel leaks on the engine and on the chassis.
    1. If a leak is found, repair leak. Refer to section "Verify Repairs" .
    2. If no leaks are found, Go to step 6.
  6. Using DiagnosticLink 8.x, check for multiple codes.
    1. If any of the additional fault codes are active, perform the associated diagnostics first:
      • SPN 94 / FMI 15 Fuel Filter plugged
      • SPN 94 / FMI 16 Fuel Filter plugged
      • SPN 97 / FMI 15 Water in the fuel
      • SPN 157 / FMI 1 Rail Pressure too High.
      • SPN 164 / FMI (All) Rail pressure sensor faults
      • SPN 174 / FMI 0 Fuel Temperature too High
      • SPN 679 / FMI 7 PLV stuck open
      • SPN 723 / FMI (all) Cam Sensor Codes
      • SPN 636 / FMI (all) crank sensor codes
      • SPN 1077 / FMI 5, 6 or 14
    2. If only SPN 1077/7, 157/16 or 1077/31 is present, Go to step 7.
  7. Using DiagnosticLink 8.x, check the value of Pressure Limiting Valve (PLV) openings. With key ON, engine OFF select the Actions tab in the top tool bar. Select Fuel System, then Pressure Limiting Valve (PLV) Change or view (E2P_RPG_CTR_PLV_OPEN) under “Extended Data Record Number 5th” list. View and record the PLV open counts. Is the counter greater than 50?
    1. Yes; replace the PLV. Refer to section "Removal of the Pressure Limiting Valve - Three-Filter System" . Verify repairs. Refer to section "Verify Repairs" .
    2. No;Go to step 8.
  8. Perform Automatic Fuel system integrity check (FSIC) routine using DiagnosticLink. With key ON, Engine OFF (KOEO) start the Automatic FSIC. The software/tool will ask to start the engine when required. Once the engine is running, the software will have the engine enter and exit several engine operating conditions. Follow the on-screen instructions and key ON and OFF as necessary. Go to step 9.
  9. Did the FSIC detect a leak?
    1. Yes; perform the High Pressure Fuel System - Leak Test.
      For three-filter fuel system, Refer to section "High Pressure Fuel System - Leak Test - Three-Filter Fuel System" .
    2. No; Go to step 10.
  10. Does it take longer than two minutes and 30 seconds for rail pressure to bleed down below 10 bar?
    1. Yes; perform the Idle Speed Balance Test to attempt to identify a faulty injector. Refer to section "Idle Speed Balance Test" .
    2. No; Go to step 11.
  11. Does Kw/Nw show/stay “ON / Enabled / True” while the engine is running during the Automatic FSIC routine?
    1. Yes; Go to step 12.
    2. No; refer to troubleshooting for SPN 723/FMI 10.
  12. At 600 rpm, is ASL003 Fuel Compensation Pressure within range per the fuel pressure chart? Refer to section "Normal Fuel System Pressures - Three-Filter Fuel System"
    1. Yes; Go to step 14.
    2. No; Go to step 13.
  13. Monitor AS124 LPPO sensor (if equipped) or use manual gauge J-48706. Is the pressure in range at 600 and 1800 rpm? Refer to section "Normal Fuel System Pressures - Three-Filter Fuel System"
    1. Yes; Go to step 14.
    2. No; repair cause of incorrect fuel pressure. Refer to section "Normal Fuel System Pressures - Three-Filter Fuel System" .
  14. Monitor AS124 LPPO (if equipped) and ASL003 Fuel Compensation Pressure at all engine speeds; are pressures stable with no oscillations?
    1. Yes; Go to step 15.
    2. No; pressures are unstable WITH oscillations of more than 1.5 psi at a steady rpm, Refer to section "Aerated Fuel Test - Three-Filter Fuel System" .
  15. Check the Idle Speed Balance (ISB) Values. Refer to section "Idle Speed Balance Test" . Are there any cylinders above 70% or below -70%?
    1. Yes; Follow repair procedures in “Idle Speed Balance (ISB) test” and verify repairs. Refer to section "Verify Repairs" .
    2. No; Go to step 16.
  16. Is ASL001 Rail Pressure erratic or does it have a saw tooth pattern?

    NOTE: See examples of erratic pressure showing (1) ASL001 Rail pressure and (2) AS098 Desired rail pressure.

    1. Yes; Go to step 17.
    2. No; Go to step 18.
  17. Perform the aerated fuel test. Refer to section "Aerated Fuel Test - Three-Filter Fuel System" . Was fuel aerated?
    1. Yes; repair cause of aerated fuel. Refer to section "Aerated Fuel Test - Three-Filter Fuel System" .
    2. No; replace the Quantity Control Valve. Refer to section "Removal of the Quantity Control Valve - Three-Filter System" .
  18. Perform Pressure Limiting valve flow test. Refer to section "Pressure Limiting Valve Flow Test - Three-Filter Fuel System" . Did the PLV flow test pass?
    1. Yes; Go to step 19.
    2. No; replace the PLV. Refer to section "Removal of the Pressure Limiting Valve - Three-Filter System" .
  19. Inspect the Low pressure fuel system for leaks. Refer to section "FIS Low Pressure Leak Test - Three-Filter Fuel System" . Are leaks present?

    NOTICE:

    Prime fuel system prior to going to next step. Refer to section "Priming the Fuel System - Three-Filter System" .
    1. Yes; repair as necessary. Refer to section "FIS Low Pressure Leak Test - Three-Filter Fuel System" .
    2. No; Go to step 20.
  20. Cap the rail at all six injector feed connections using J-48704 injector rail caps and crank the engine for 10 seconds. Does the ASL001 rail pressure reach AS098 desired rail pressure?
    1. Yes; Go to step 21.
    2. No; Replace high pressure pump. Refer to section "Removal of the High Pressure Fuel Pump - Three-Filter System" .
  21. With the injectors still capped after cranking engine for 10 seconds. Does the rail pressure bleed down under 100 bar in less than five minutes?
    1. Yes; replace the high pressure fuel pump.
    2. No; Go to step 22.
  22. Using DiagnosticLink 8.x, navigate to Service Routines and Fuel System Integrity Check test and select Manual FSIC. Test drive the truck to see if the code sets. Did the code become active?
    1. Yes; Go to step 23.
    2. No; replace fuel filters and release vehicle to customer.
  23. Remove the MCM 120-Pin connector. Inspect for damage including fuel, water corrosion or bent terminals. Is any damage found?
    1. Yes; repair as needed.
    2. No; Go to step 24.
  24. Install a test MCM using the extension harness and test drive the truck. Does the Code come active?
    1. Yes; Go to step 25.
    2. No; replace MCM and verify repair.
  25. Inspect chassis fuel system for restrictions or debris. Refer to OEM procedures. Is there a chassis fuel system issue?
    1. Yes; identify source of issue and repair as necessary.
    2. No; replace fuel filters and release to customer.
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Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

520 do this first, it may be a bad ecm

566.1 SPN 520250/FMI 4 - EPA10

Quantity Control Valve Low Side Driver Error

This condition can occur when:

  • MCM pin 2 circuit is shorted to power
  • Internal short of the quantity control valve

Show/Hide Checkboxes

  1. Disconnect the Quantity Control Valve (QCV) harness connector.
  2. Ensure the multi-meter or Digital Voltage Ohm Meter (DVOM) resistance is set to zero.
    1. If meter can auto–zero, perform this function before making a resistance measurement.
    2. If meter cannot auto–zero, note the resistance of the leads and subtract it from the measurement taken in step 3.
  3. Measure the resistance across pins 1 and 2 of the quantity control valve.
    1. If the resistance is less than 1.3 ohms, replace quantity control valve. Refer to section "Installation of the Quantity Control Valve - Three-Filter System" .
    2. If the resistance is between 1.3 ohms and 1.4 ohms, Go to step 4.
  4. Disconnect the 120-pin Motor Control Module (MCM) connector and check for corroded, bent or broken pins. Ensure both the MCM and harness connector pins are checked. Repair or replace if needed.
  5. Turn ignition ON (key ON, engine OFF).
  6. Measure the voltage at pin 2 of the quantity control valve harness connector.
    1. If the voltage is 0, replace the MCM. Refer to section "Installation of the Motor Control Module" .
    2. If the voltage is greater than 0, repair the short circuit between pin 2 of the quantity control valve harness connector and battery.
Ask Your Own Medium and Heavy Trucks Question
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Changed the ecm, run the truck after hard time, then we noticed the fuel level started to get higher than before, diesel starts leaking from back of the sleeper, hard to open fuel tanks, level going to top in big clear filter
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

that indicates a clogged fuel filter on the devco. change the fuel filter.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Good morning, when install the fuel pump we put the TI mark straight with the Dot mark, but my mechanic did not DTC the Engine,
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

fuel pump does not need to be timed

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Crank no start
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

that mark is there so the flange will fit through the block. if it is not at that mark, the pump will not go through the opening without turning it

you said it was running????

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
After 12 hours of trying with starter fluid starts , the we gave a lot of pressure so we had to drain almost 80 gallons of fuel
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Please let me know about the pic because my mechanic did not TDC
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Not running
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Crank no start , now
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

I told you about the tdc 2 times. read my responses

did you prime the system with the esoc tool??

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Please I need a clear answer,
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
About tdc
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

I did.

the mark is there only to align the pump to fit through the hole in the block due to the flange on the end of the pump. if you did not align it then the pump will not fit through until you turn the end of the pump so it will go through. a lot of guys take that flange off and do not re install when replacing to make it easy to install.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
no need for TDC
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

As I stated 3 times, that is correct

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thanks we prime system nothing so far
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Removed all filters same no start just cranking
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

you need to do the FSIC test

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Fuel injector has ground no hot
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

if it has a ground, it has power. that does not make sense. how are you checking it?

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Open ignitionand check all screws on top of Injuctor , all was ground
Technician: roybelding, Shop Foreman Freightliner trucks replied 4 months ago

last 6 of the vin??

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
BM7448
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Still building pressure in the big filter
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I have a t190 Bob Cat and it cranks fine and then after
I have a t190 Bob Cat and it cranks fine and then after about 5 to 25 seconds it shuts down. This is the first time this has happened and I have tried everything that I know and it will not stay crank… read more
DDG
DDG
Service Coordinator
Associate Degree
104 satisfied customers
And my name is ***** ***** have international truck DT466 4300
Hi and my name is ***** ***** have international truck DT466 4300 engine. I encountered rough idling this past 2 days in the morning when im trying to warm up my engine. The first day it takes about 7… read more
Andy3221
Andy3221
truck /coach technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
222 satisfied customers
Clayton.Hace this Cascadia 09,DD15.Truck will crank but
Clayton.Hace this Cascadia 09,DD15.Truck will crank but won't start after sits or two days.Once it starts,it will start a billion times without any problem rest of the day.It happens only in the morni… read more
Curtis B.
Curtis B.
Technician
Associate Degree
961 satisfied customers
My truck wont start because of air in the fuel line. How do
My truck wont start because of air in the fuel line. How do I get the air out of the fuel line of a Kenworth T680? Thanks for your response.… read more
spankyjr1
spankyjr1
Retired
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
19 satisfied customers
Have a peterbilt truck with a 3406e engine. I changed a fuel
Have a peterbilt truck with a 3406e engine. I changed a fuel tank and the truck ran for about 5 minutes then it quit and we cannot get it started.. The new tank was empty when we started it… read more
Cat Man
Cat Man
Cat Engine Expert
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
4,493 satisfied customers
I have a DD15 Detroit Diesel in my truck. I changed the fuel
I have a DD15 Detroit Diesel in my truck. I changed the fuel filters and now it won't start. It cranks over but will not fire.… read more
FIX-IT
FIX-IT
Comercial transport technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
784 satisfied customers
Ok I had a problem with dd15 that its fuel pressure doesn't
Ok I had a problem with dd15 that its fuel pressure doesn't stays. It's hard to start it after 3 hrs and I connect external fuel gauge to in line the pressure fluctuate at the range of 20 psi means it… read more
Clayton
Clayton
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
633 satisfied customers
05sterling Mercedes 460 diesel wont start. Vin U52067
05 sterling with Mercedes 460 diesel won't start.Vin; U52067 just changed the seperator & fuel filter. Runs with ether.… read more
dieseldoctorkev
dieseldoctorkev
power system tech 1
76 satisfied customers
I am having a starting problem with my 60 series it has 250
I am having a starting problem with my 60 series it has 250 thousand km on 2007 fld sd . Only in the morning it take about 10 minutes long crank then it's start after first hard start in the morning i… read more
Clayton
Clayton
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
633 satisfied customers
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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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