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2008 volvo vnl 780 with d16 engine. Issue: at full throttle…

2008 volvo vnl 780 with...
2008 volvo vnl 780 with d16 engine.
Issue: at full throttle truck won't go over 1700rpm and run a rough like it's hitting a rev limiter.
Anything below 100% throttle truck runs up to rpms fine but lacks power.
New vgt actuator and new boost sensors and 4th injector .
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Answered in 14 minutes by:
3/8/2018
Steven
Steven, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 38
Experience: Volvo/Mack Master Tech, Certified with Cummins, Eaton, GM, Hino, Detroit Diesel
Verified

Hello, My name is***** have been a Mack and Volvo Master tech for over 16 years. Allow me one moment to review your complaint and I will help you on the right path to remedy your concern.

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Are you getting and faults thru the dash. If you are unsure how to do that, let me know and I will walk you thru it. If there is, under the engine and you please supply me with the pid, sid, ppid, or psid numbers and the fmi numbers. Thanks

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Can you also supply me with the last 6 of the vin?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Only code I see with tech tool is fuel/water separator but this truck doesn't have one installed so that's irelavant.
Vin : 489051

So when you say about the rpm's not going over 1700, is this sitting still or also driving? Has that just started happening with this. When is the last time the valves were adjusted on this? Have you ran the egr valve test? Can you monitor DPF diff pressure at idle and at WOT? What is fuel pressure at? Is the truck hard to start at all? Sorry, don't mean to raid you with questions, just painting a picture of what this unit is doing. You can also select a phone call from your screen and if you are able to connect to PTT with the unit now I can walk you thru some test.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Standing still it will rev up to 2k fine.. issue is when driving, trucks been doing this for the past year. When you unplug the boost sensor truck drives and runs better but lacks power. This has nothing to do with egr or dpf Because it's deleted..it's used off road for moving trailers.
Overhead adjustment has not been done could be an issue. Also smokes white and has a fuel smell

How long ago was the injector changed?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Recently while trying to figure out this issue, noticed when stationary at full throttle truck would run really rough, did the injector cut out test and #4 didn't change while all others did so installed a new injector and adjusted #4 injector and valves
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
it ran better afterwards

The reason why I ask, is this is a F engine, We had a huge problem with the valve adjustments from 2007-early 2010 where techs were using the valve adjustment readings in Impact thru Volvo and they were wrong, The impact reading was stating 3.5mm when the valve cover would state 4.2. The 4.2 is correct and when set to 3.5 they are too tight. The ex brake plungers in the ex rocker arms are known for backing out, so when your under load they can hold the ex valves open. The only way you can check that is to pull all of the ex plungers out of the rocker arms and take a pick and try and spin the cap on the underside of them. If they are loose there is a procedure of fixing that instead of replacing the rocker arm. Id make sure your not getting air in the return as well. The 16's had a big injector cup issue back then. They went to a conical design which this may/may not been upgraded to, which that really helped these as far as injector problems.

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I would go thru a check all of the ex plungers inside the rocker arms. I can attach a bulletin about them if you are unsure of what they are. Then I would go thru a adjust all of the valves and if you need to make a drastic change in shims on the ex valves I would check that cylinder out more. Because I have had quite a few over the years where the valves were made too hard and will beat themselves into the seats and leak. Let me know if you have any other questions or need any service info on this.

Please rate my service thus far. I will remain open for you in case you need anything else. Thanks

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok that's good to know , I used the spec on the valve cover to do 4 but not sure about the rest.. maybe someone did them wrong and it's been running crappy ever since. I also did the exhaust rocker on 4 because I noticed the plunger didn't move in and out easily or was almost siezed.
Today I checked the return and I get some micro bubbles but now much at all
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Post the service bulletin please

micro bubbles are fine, I am usually more concerned when it builds up and looks like there is a scuba diver in the fuel tank. The air check in the return needs checked at wide open throttle as well. Just make sure if you take those ex plungers out, make sure you keep them with the rocker arm they came out of. They are a matched set with the rocker arm.

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2140-05-03-01 Valves and Engine Injectors, Adjustment

You must read and understand the precautions and guidelines in Service Information, group 20, "General Safety Practices, Engine" before performing this procedure. If you are not properly trained and certified in this procedure, ask your supervisor for training before you perform it.

Special tools: 88800014, 85111377 or 88880053, 88880052

1

Remove the plug from the lower right side of the flywheel housing and install flywheel turning tool.

Note: Ensure the turning tool is well greased before attempting to turn the flywheel.

Special tools: 88800014

2

Loosen the fasteners retaining the leaf springs to release spring tension on the engine brake rocker arms.

3

Camshaft Markings (part number 20950808)

Camshaft Markings (part number 21120526)

Note: A new camshaft (part number 21120526) with V markings replaced the previously used camshaft (part number 20950808) with E markings in February, 2008. Make sure to use the correct camshaft markings when adjusting the valves and injectors.

Using the flywheel turning tool, turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation to the next camshaft marking for the adjustment of the valves and unit injector. Camshaft settings for adjustment of the valves and unit injectors are shown in the following chart.

  • Markings 1–6 apply to adjustment of inlet valves and unit injectors.
  • Markings E1–E6 or V1–V6 apply to adjustment of exhaust valves and VCB rockers.

Camshaft Markings

Cam PositionInjectorIntakeExhaustVCB

5XX

E6 or V6 XX

3XX

E2 or V2 XX

6XX

E4 or V4 XX

2XX

E1 or V1 XX

4XX

E5 or V5 XX

1XX

E3 or V3 XX

4

With the engine cold, check the inlet valve clearance for cylinder No. 5 by pushing down on the back of the rocker and inserting a feeler gauge of the proper specification between the bridge and the adjustment screw. If the clearance is not within specification, 0.30 ± 0.05 mm (0.012 ± 0.002 inch), loosen the lock nut on the rocker and adjust the plunger as required. Once the adjustment is within specification, hold the adjusting screw in place and tighten the lock nut to 38 ± 4 Nm (28 ± 3 ft-lb).

5

Check the valve clearance again after the nut is tightened.

Note: Mark the rocker arm with a marker pen as each adjustment is completed.

6

To adjust the injector at the same cylinder location, loosen the lock nut and back off the adjusting screw until it no longer makes contact.

7

Turn the adjusting screw in until it contacts the unit injector (zero clearance).

8

Tighten the adjusting screw an additional 4 flats or 240 degrees of clockwise rotation.

9

Hold the adjusting screw to prevent it from turning and tighten the adjusting screw lock nut to 52 ± 4 Nm (38 ± 3 ft-lb).

10

Camshaft Markings (part number 20950808)

Camshaft Markings (part number 21120526)

Use the flywheel turning tool to advance the engine to the next setting and adjust the exhaust valves for cylinder No. 6.

11

Loosen the lock nut (A) and turn the bridge adjusting screw out so that there is clearance between the screw and the valve stem end.

12

Press down on the center of the bridge and tighten the adjusting screw (B) until it just contacts the valve stem end. Then, tighten the screw an additional 1 flat or 60 ± 5 degrees.

13

Hold the adjusting screw to prevent it from turning and tighten the lock nut to 38 ± 4 Nm (28 ± 3 ft-lb).

14

Check the exhaust rocker valve clearance. Push down on the back of the exhaust rocker and measure the clearance between the bridge and the plunger, using a feeler gauge. The clearance should be 0.60 ± 0.05 mm (0.024 ± 0.002 inch).

15

If the exhaust rocker requires adjustment, loosen the lock nut on the rocker. Place a 0.60 mm (0.024 inch) feeler gauge between the bridge and plunger and adjust the screw accordingly.

16

Hold the plunger adjusting screw to prevent it from turning and tighten the lock nut to 38 ± 4 Nm (28 ± 3 ft-lb). Leave the feeler gauge in place until brake rocker adjustment is complete.

17

With the exhaust valve adjustment completed, check the engine brake rocker clearance for cylinder No. 6.

18

Using a 3.5 mm (0.138 inch) feeler gauge, check the exhaust brake rocker arm clearance by placing the feeler gauge between the rocker arm roller and the cam lobe. The clearance should be 3.5 ± 0.05 mm (0.138 ± 0.002 inch).

Part no.: 88880052

19

If the clearance is not within specification, loosen the brake rocker arm lock nut (A) and turn the adjuster screw (B) 1/2 to 1 turn counter-clockwise. With the 3.5 mm (0.138 inch) feeler gauge in position between the rocker arm roller and cam lobe, tighten the adjuster screw (B) until it makes contact and then a further 1/2 turn until the valve yoke clearly moves down and the exhaust valve opens slightly. The engine brake mechanism is now preloaded.

20

Loosen the adjusting screw slowly until the 3.5 mm (0.138 inch) gauge can be pushed in and out with minor effort. Hold the adjusting screw to prevent it from turning and tighten the lock nut to 52 ± 4 Nm (38 ± 3 ft-lb).

21

Repeat the preceding procedure to adjust all other unit injector and valve locations by rotating the engine to the next nearest camshaft mark.

Note: Engine must be rotated in the normal direction of operation when advancing to the next mark.

22

After all unit injectors and valves have been checked and adjusted, tighten all mounting screws on the engine brake rocker leaf springs. Tighten the screws to 25 ± 3 Nm (19 ± 2 ft-lb).

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
To check those plungers I have to removed the whole rocker arm assembly again?

Here is the information on the plungers

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Yes the rocker shaft has to come back off. The tool it shows to tighten, You can just locktite the back screws, stick in a vise with a rag really right and tighten with a center punch. Its extremely hard steel so your not going to hurt it. Please don't forget to rate me on the help I have provided for you. Thanks

Steven
Steven, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 38
Experience: Volvo/Mack Master Tech, Certified with Cummins, Eaton, GM, Hino, Detroit Diesel
Verified
Steven and 87 other Medium and Heavy Trucks Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Fixed all the plungers and adjusted all the valves and injectors. Same issue
Okay. I will list a few things to check in PTT and please let me know what you find. Run the truck to temp and perform a cylinder balance test. It’s right near the cutout test. Let that run for about 5 mins. Take a screen shot and attach to this trend. Let me know what the fuel pressure is at idle and at wide open throttle. Also boost pressure as well. When you put the turbo actuator on , was it calibrated? If it was what position was the sector shaft placed in before the act was installed? Sounds like the truck might be loading up and choking out which is usually caused by the sector shaft hanging up or a egr valve not closing so the ex pressure drops off. You had said earlier that the egr valve was bypassed, does it actually have a plate installed or just programming? Thanks.
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Egr is programmed and physically blocked. Actuator was calibrated, shaft moved easily and freely and was all the way to compressor side position when installed
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
With boost sensor unplugged runs smooth with lower boost
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Fuel pressure around 500-600 Kpa at wot
The boost pressure sensor is just going to default when it is unplugged. However with stock programming when a boost pressure sensor is unplugged the engine has no power at all. It will rev up fine but fall on its face under a load. The fuel pressure sounds good. I would check those balance rates and let me know. When it’s back up to temp after that test run another vgt sweep and see if the motor effort is high or if it pegs at 248. I’ve had a lot of them over the years that will hang up when they get hot.
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok I'll check the Vgt sweep, trucks smoke bad cold start until it's warm

Is this popping or anything out of the ex or intake?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I ran the cylinder balance test earlier when I first started working on it and they were lol pretty good
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
If you rev it up when cold it's just runs very rough and misfires until re limit

Does it start up fine and then start to run bad, like when oil pressure is built up? That engine, along with even the new ones, If it is started up when it is below 20-30 degrees it will run horrible, sometimes it will even kill the engine and have to restart, that's the nature of a diesel, especially one that's non-common rail.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Yea it start fine just runs rough for a couple sec then smooth .. the ambient air temp sensor isn't working ..would that have any effect? Shouldn't matter because it has an intake temp sensor
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Also would like to mention when your in a pull the boost would rise close to middle on gauge and they rapidly fall and stuck would vibrate and not raise in rpm
The ambient air being inop isn’t a big deal on that. That takes an average of other sensors at key on to compensate. What rpms does the boost start to drop out. If you can imagine while your driving, does it happen between 11-1400 rpms and then get better? Does it have a vibration from the engine under that rpm level?
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Lower rpm runs fine and pulls good, it happens after 1500rpm with foot to the floor, if you back pedal off a little it runs fine till red line
Okay, well that rules out bad injectors then. This sounds just like an egr valve sticking open and not closing. Just with it being bypassed. I would then at this point bring up sensor value monitoring on tech tool and monitor turbo act pos and motor effort, also see if the egr flow is present and reading anything in case it’s a software error. See if when you go to wide open throttle the motor effort sky rockets and see if the boost pressure coincides with the pedal pos and engine load. Something is choking this thing out.
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
At full throttle driving, vgt doesn't go over 69% and motor effort is around 20 and boost around 45kpa
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
With boost sensor unplugged Vgt shows same values if sensor was plugged in
How long ago was the components bypassed? The vgt should hardly move at all with the boost pressure sensor unplugged. Are you sure your not unplugging the intake air temp sensor instead of the boost pressure sensor? It sounds like something may be wrong software related because those turbo readings are incorrect. I’ve seen that before where the aftermarket programs can wig out and have to be reflashed.
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
It's been deleted for 2 years now, been doing it ever since. I just had it reflash and it's still doing the same thing. And yes I'm sure it's boost sensor, has 3 wires and it's on the elbow
The one in the elbow near the preheater block is the intake manifold temp sensor. The boost pressure is in the top of the intake manifold near the breather tube
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
That wierd because the plugs won't reach very well if you swapped connectors..
My mistake. The intake temp is in the manifold. The pressure is on top of the horn so the reading doesn’t include egr flow. Well do you have access to a test engine ecm from a like vehicle you could plug into this for a quick drive?
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Truck put back to stock with original file. Runs very rough, won't go over 1000 rpm
Does the PC you use have access online? If so would you be willing to accept a phone call and we can use teamviewer so I can monitor somethings in PTT to see what isn’t reading right and what’s going on?
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Yea let's do it tomarrow
Okay. Is 630 EST okay? PM.
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Can you do earlier?
No sorry. I work Monday thru Friday from 7am to 6 everyday and 7-330 Saturday. Unless you wanted to do that on Saturday at like 4-430? Let me know. Thanks
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok I'll let you know
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Steven
Steven
Steven, Shop Foreman/Triage Tech
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 38
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Experience: Volvo/Mack Master Tech, Certified with Cummins, Eaton, GM, Hino, Detroit Diesel

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