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Pre egr cummins isx 450hp lift pump not coming on, I have a…

Pre egr cummins isx 450hp...
Pre egr cummins isx 450hp lift pump not coming on, I have a new pump and plugged it in but not installed, did not come on either. Where is the fuse? I've untied the harness on the ecm side if the engine and can't find it anywhere.
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Answered in 1 hour by:
9/22/2017
Daniel Wilson
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 6,196
Experience: Owner at DJ Wilson
Verified

Hi my name is***** will be glad to help. This is controlled by the ECM. Check the wire between the ECM and pump. IF okay, verify the ECM power and grounds. Let me know the results. We can follow up as needed. Also what is the year and make/model of this truck?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
There is 500 wires ,what wire? Ecm wires are invaded in hard plastic. 2003 Freightliner Columbia 2002 motor
Truck starts and runs fine btw

Click this link

Troubleshooting

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I shared the diagram so you can test the circuits above.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I said pre egr that has egr and my ecm has different left connector

Lets try this.... What is your VIN and engine serial number and complete model from the ID tag? That information would have been helpful from the start

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So this must be a CM 570...

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I'll get that in a few
Is there no fuse or relay????

The relay is the small box to the right of the Ecm attached to the harness. There is also a fuse next to it

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This since 2003 would be a CM 870 which is 2002 on

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The ECM controls the lift pump only at key in the on position will it run for 30 sec to min. If the fuse and relay are good check the wiring harness and then confirm the ECM power and grounds or a possible ECM issue.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
There is no fuse where you said

Is the relay there?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
There is no box
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
No , there is a couple of terminated wires with plugs in them zip tied to the harness

What is the VIN and engine tag info? Can you upload a picture of what you are seeing?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Do you still need the engine # ? I'll pull over and get it if so
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Click the link I posted and it runs through the fuel system and has a photo of the relay I mentioned.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Let me get you the bin , that's not me motor
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
The engine # is 14034076
Family 2cexh0912xaf
Year 2002
Isx 450
15 liter

I have to head out on the road but I am passing this along to another tech for you

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cumminsdr
cumminsdr, Mechanic
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 3,769
Experience: All types of Cummins applications
Verified

There is a relay for the lift pump on these engines. I cannot find a good diag or pic of it on the engine. It's just zipped tied to the harness really. Its in the highlighted area where the OEM (Black)harness connects to the engine harness (RED).

Remove the fuel lift pump power connector at the fuel lift pump.

Turn the keyswitch to the ON position.

Measure the voltage between the fuel lift pump SUPPLY pin and the fuel lift pump RETURN pin on the harness connector.

The voltage must be battery voltage.

If voltage is not present, check the fuse on the fuel lift pump relay supply line. Replace if necessary.

If the voltage is not correct, disconnect the 2-pin connector between the OEM harness and the engine harness that supplies the fuel lift pump relay with unswitched battery power.

Measure the voltage at the 2-pin connector on the OEM harness.

The voltage must be battery voltage.

Check for an open circuit in the fuel lift pump RETURN circuit.

Disconnect the 2-pin fuel lift pump power connector at the fuel lift pump.

Disconnect the fuel lift pump relay power connector where the OEM harness connects to the engine harness.

Measure the resistance of the fuel lift pump RETURN between these two connectors.

The resistance must be 10 ohms or less.

Check the fuel lift pump relay for proper operation.

Unplug the fuel lift pump relay from the engine harness connector.

Check the voltage at the fuel lift pump relay SUPPLY pin.

The voltage must be battery voltage.

If voltage is not present, recheck the fuses and the OEM/engine harness for shorts and open circuits.

With the keyswitch in the ON position, measure the voltage at the fuel lift pump relay SIGNAL pin on the engine harness relay connector.

A measurement of 12-VDC must be indicated.

If 12-VDC is not indicated, check the ECM for the proper calibration and or operation

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Please describe the relay, I see nothing that looks like a relay to me and I absolutely see no fuse. There is a few loose wires with plugs in them none have a fuse
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Is it a small square, 2 pins , orange rubber seal
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Like the size of a sugar cube?
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Looks like a cummins only part?
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I found the fuse and relay. No where near where you both said, it's on the engine block above the starter.
My question now is, I had the starter replaced at cummins a few months ago and they left wires off and it was a nightmare 2 other shops had to fix what the did. Anyways. The wires going to the fuse should not be going to ground? Correct? One is going to the negative post on the starter and the wire is red. Is that wrong????
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Let me clarify, the harness for the lift pump with the fuse and the relay and the connection to the pump, one of the wires is going to the starter ground terminal. The wire is red and connected to the ground post. Did they hook this up wrong at cummins?
Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 1,757
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter
Verified

Hi there . My name is ***** ***** Do you still need help ?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
thank you

So my understanding is you are looking for the power and ground circuits for the lift pump on this unit . Correct ?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I think cummins hooked it up wrong

So when I look up this engine serial number , it tells me this is a cm 570 ISX , pre-egr . Correct ?

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The wiring diagram for this engine shows various types of priming pumps according to what you have there . It could be a remote manual priming pump with a switch , a remote automatic priming pump , or an integrated priming pump . Which one do you think you have ?

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The remote automatic priming pump has a control module for it , and the inegrated one has a relay

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Correct, it's integrated
Does the truck need the lift pump when it's runing

If I am not mistaken , no , it does not ! It only runs for the first 2 min of key on to help prime the fuel system for a proper start up . Once running , the gear pump does the rest .

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That is how it is on the cm 870 and cm 871 for sure .

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I am assuming it is the same here on this older model as well . I will check the manual

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Ok it starts fineeven after sitting for 18 hours and tins fine

It has been the same fuel system since ISX started . So the cm570 , cm 870 and cm871 all use the lift pump to simply prime the system for the first 2 min of key on before a startup .

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
if I can't figure out if what the cummins dealer did I could just wire a switch to it I'm assuming. There is a red wire from that circuit hooked to the negative post on the starter, I think it would go to the positive post idk

I will send diagram

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These links should show you all you need . It is the same one diagram but because it is so large , i had to capture several images for you . just print and paste them together to follow it .

Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 1,757
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter
Verified
Andy and 87 other Medium and Heavy Trucks Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
they have one side of the fuse to the negative post on the starter. Should be positive post I thought that was the problem. I will swap it when I stop. Thank you

Thank you . Good luck !

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Andy
Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 1,757
1,757 Satisfied Customers
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter

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