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I have a 2008 International with a Maxxforce 466 engine. truck ran very bad, found a numbe…

I have a 2008 International...
I have a 2008 International with a Maxxforce 466 engine. truck ran very bad, found a number of injectors to be faulty. Replaced all injectors. after replacing fuel filter, truck would not start. Found metal shavings in fuel filter housing. Replaced lift pump, removed filter housing, cleaned out, and replaced fuel pressure regulator. The LCD display on the dash says "FUEL FILTER*" and the orange wrench lights up. With scan tool, fuel pressure at idle is around 8-10. Truck runs fine. Tried clearing codes and dash codes both with scanner and cruise switches. It will go off, then back on.
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Answered in 48 minutes by:
9/11/2014
Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 3,030
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter
Verified
Andy :

Hi there ! Sorry to hear you are having trouble! My name is ***** ***** I would like to try and help if I can !

Andy :

can we start with the last eight digits of the vin number please ?

Customer:

8N038953

Andy :

Thanks

Andy :

You need minimum 20 psi while cranking to start

Andy :

Do you have any air possiibly in the fuel system?

Customer:

it starts and runs good actually

Customer:

local international tech said once running, engine supply pressure should be higher, he claims 70+. This is an egr engine with mechanical lift pump that bolts to HPOP. from searching the web, I have found that the fuel filter light should not come on until pressure exceeds 50, that would show a restriction in the filter.

Andy :

Oh ok good

Customer:

it does log a code of spn 94, fmi 1. "engine fuel delivery pressure - data valid but below normal operating range - most severe

Andy :

It is running ! Fuel pressure running should be anywhere from 60-80 psi

Andy :

So while running at idle , what is the fuel pressure please

Customer:

8-10 according to scanner

Customer:

rev up to 2000rpm, it gets to around 20

Andy :

Have you checked with a manual gauge at the fuel rail ?

Andy :

That is definitely low

Customer:

dont have the proper fitting to tap in.

Andy :

All it is is a schraeder valve

Andy :

same as a tire stem

Andy :

either at the very front of the rail above the hpop

Customer:

ok, i did notice that, but thought it was for intake, its about 3/4 back. on filter head is a large test port for like a dyno

Andy :

or could also be just in the middle of the rail behind the fuel filter module

Andy :

No

Andy :

It is the same as a valve stem you would find on a car tire !

Customer:

one time i removed the return fuel line off the housing, no fuel came out. i started the truck, still no fuel came out and according to scanner psi jumped to 85!

Customer:

tried to duplicate that again, and fuel would spray out as it should with line off.

Andy :

Here is a good question

Andy :

When you rev it up , watch your hand primer pump !

Andy :

Does it suck in by itself?

Andy :

If so , you have high fuel inlet retriction and need to figure out why

Customer:

not sure. have to spin oil filter on and add oil first. waiting for tech i started pm.

Customer:

between tank and lift pump?

Andy :

kinked fuel lines to tank or something in bottom of fuel tank getting stuck on standpipe

Customer:

also, fuel line comes from tank to primer, then line to lift pump to filter head. no smaller test ports for fuel. fuel goes to head directly through filter housing.

Andy :

Yes I know

Andy :

I work at a dealership and see these quite often

Andy :

If you start it and run it , rev it up to 2000 rpm and watch the primer to see if it sucks in on its own

Customer:

ok, i will let you know when i can

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Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok sounds good ! I switched our chat session so we can continue further !

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

i am waiting for somebody to get here to rev up truck while i watch plunger. in the meantime I removed the inlet fuel line from the tank to the primer and blew lower pressure shop air back to the tank. first i removed the line at the tank also and it was clear. then hooked up and blew air and i could hear the tank bubble. that does not seem restricted. with it running at idle and i manually pump the primer, fuel psi goes up 2 pounds.

the local dealer stated they have had to replace the complete filter housings before, but he would not tell me why. As stated in my original question, this thing was full of aluminum shavings. I did flush it out and replaced the regulator plunger but the pressures did not change. have you had to replace these housings, and if so why?

primer DID NOT suck in.

Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago

Would you like a performance worksheet for this engine ?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

is that going to help me with this issue at all? Like i stated, it starts, goes over 70mph, but this light and warning is on.

Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7gj119fawgla8ud/2007%20maxxforce%20dt%2C9%2C10%20performance%20diagnostics.pdf?dl=0

This is specifically for this engine and yes it

can help narrow down our problem ! If you have high fuel inlet restriction , then the pump has to suck harder than it needs to and so there will be low pressure issues !
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

i am going to try to make a fitting to test fuel psi. if it runs as well as it does with such low psi, maybe its just the sensor.

Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
That is what I thought ! Best thing to do is check that fuel pressure at that schraeder valve to be sure
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok, both my make shift adapter and test port only show about 7 on gauge, and 20 at 2000 rpm.

Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Way too low and will give you low boost and low power issues !With the engine off , is the hand primer really hard to push in ?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Plunger is not hard to push. You can pump it and hear fuel return to tank. With return fuel line disconnected and that check valve seated, then the primer is very hard since fuel can't return to tank.
Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
I think you need to recheck that fuel pressure regulator ! It sounds like something is stuck in it !
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Let's do a total recap. Truck came to me running poor, an injector would cut out at high speeds. Removed injectors and 3 of 6 tested bad, customer said to replace all. Assembled truck and started it. Ran fine, no lights on dash. Replaced fuel filter (getting PM anyhow). After replacing filter truck would not start, thought maybe bad filter, wouldn't prime with plunger either. Did eventually start and according to scanner had low fuel psi. For whatever reason when I removed filter I was standing on tire and looked in bowl and noticed metal shavings. Figured lift pump was going bad. Replaced pump, removed housing and cleaned out. Noticed shavings in seal for regulator plunger, replaced regulator, spring, and assembled with new filter from dealer. Truck primed with plunger and ran but light on dash. Verified fuel psi to be about 7-9lbs at idle. Made sure lines were not restricted. Drive down hwy at 70mph.
Earlier I asked if you ever had to replace filter housing and if so why? Wondering if shavings damaged the bore the regulator plunger is in. I didn't notice anything drastic though.
Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago

Here is a breakdown of the fuel flow on that truck !

graphic

Have you checked the fuel strainer ?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Yes, when I took the housing off to flush I took it totally apart and cleaned everything.

The customer has to use the truck tomorrow so it is gone for now. From looking at that diagram, I am thinking about doing the complete housing. If fuel was restricted from the tank, I dont think it would prime easy, plus the test to see if plunger sucked in didn't show anything. The problem is low pressure and it has to be in the regulator. the spring and plunger are new. I hate mystery problems.

Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Yep I hate them too ! You can test the pump by disconnecting both lines to it and hooking up a vacuum gauge to the suction side ! Even if it is new , it may be defective ! Disconnect the cam sensor mounted in the front of the engine by the waterpump ( 2 wire square connector) so it doesn't try to start and crank the engine . It should be able to draw down to 20 inches of water! That tells us the pump is good. Chances are something is maybe caught in the regulator .
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Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Any luck with this ? I never heard anything back from you on this ! Please don't forget to rate my service to you as this is the only way that I am rewarded for my efforts here on thi site! Thanks ! I'll be in and out if you need me further !
Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 3,030
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter
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Andy and 87 other Medium and Heavy Trucks Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I am at the point the filter header must be bad. The customer has been using the truck with no problem though. The filter header is on order now. They took money from my account so I thought you been paid. I will rate now.
Technician: Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok thanks for the update ! And the rating ! Please let me know if you need anything else sir! Thanks !
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Andy
Andy, Truck Diagnostic Technician
Category: Medium and Heavy Trucks
Satisfied Customers: 3,030
3,030 Satisfied Customers
Experience: International and Isuzu trucks , International, Maxxforce, Cummins and Isuzu engines, Diagnostic and electrical troubleshooting specialist , Hvac and truck /trailer refrigeration troubleshooter

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