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Need help Uggh - glad to pay anyone who can get this truck…

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Hello:
Need help Uggh - glad to pay anyone who can get this truck running for me !
Mazda b2600i
1989
Automatic 4 x 4
Main problems
1.) No spark
2.) Tach not working
3.) Possibly not shifting
OK heres the story I hope someone wants to take this on
Needed a need front muffler pipe – Bosal manufactured the replacement wrong - would not fit - so had to get another replacement form a reliable manufacturer - ok got that and replaced it muffler sounds great no leaking air – quiet but …..
Afterwards truck started but was running very rough and seemed not to shift – also the tach was not working .
I let her sit several days and ….
Then the truck would not start
1.) Checked for spark at plugs – none
2.) Checked for spark at coil - none
3.) Book I have said check for 12v at the coil with the ignition on – the coil I have has two plugs one black one white each with two tabs – cant tell which is positive so I unplugged one and probed around on the other two plugs nothing - so I plugged in the other and probed around on the two plugs on the other side – nothing
OK so then I went to the ignition switch . The book I have says there should be the ff connections
B – ACC – IG1 – IG2 – ST – L – E – K1 – K2
OK all I could find was on the side of the ignition switch a wiring harness connected to a round disk with the ff wires
B – AC – Ig1 – Ig2 – ST
Now on this was also labeled an L and E which were just holes but no leads to probe or anything. I could not find K1 and K2
I did probe the leads I have and they did have continuity according to what the book suggested :
ACC – had continuity between B-ACC
ON - had continuity between B _ ACC – IG1 – Ig2
Start had continuity between B – Ig1 – ST
OK so I read somewhere that maybe the ecu was bad and to at least look at it .
I uncovered the ECU – first thing I note is a wire that seems frayed and is disconnected, THe wire itself was white coming out of the 7the hole on the plug – it then ran into a sheath that was grey – yellow . I splice it together but that didn’t do anything. I opened the ECU – some dust but nothing that looks fried .
UGGH ! Anyone able to figure this one out ??
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Answered in 5 hours by:
9/22/2011
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago
Drew
Drew, Super Mazda Tech.
Category: Mazda
Satisfied Customers: 2,518
Experience: 19 yrs. experience. Mazda Senior Certified Tech, with Ford, Linc. & Merc. experience. ASE L1 Advanced Certified Master Tech.
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Welcome to Just Answer. My name is ***** ***** I will be glad to assist you.

Since all this started after replacing the exhaust pipe, I suggest that you look at all the wiring and connections around the area of where the exhaust pipe was replaced. Triple check everything that was touched or accidentally bumped. Disconnect and reconnect all connections. Look for any damaged wires.

Triple check ALL fuses. With a test light, verify 12V to each side of the fuse.

If all checks ok, let me know and I will give you the next diagnosis steps.

Thanks

Drew

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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
yea have done that several timeshave done that several times
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

Here is some diagnosis steps for your no spark concern.

Make sure there is NO aftermarket alarm. Remove!!

The B/W wire at the coil will be your 12V supply from fused ignition.

graphic

To produce a spark that will ignite the air/fuel mixture within an engine's cylinders, ignition systems generate high voltage and direct it to spark plugs at each cylinder. Voltage must be high enough to jump the spark plug gap under compression and it must be supplied at the correct time under a wide range of operating conditions. Various systems of controlling spark generation and timing have been devised. These range from completely mechanical to ECU activated electronic to distributorless.

This vehicle utilizes an electronic ignition system with mechanical and vacuum advance mechanisms. Components include:

  1. Ignition coil.
  2. Camshaft driven distributor with vacuum control unit, governor weight system for mechanical advance, pick-up coil and igniter assembly, signal rotor, pick-up coil for "G" signal.
  3. Distributor cap and high tension wiring for distributing high voltage to the spark plugs.
  4. Necessary wiring and vacuum hoses.

When the ignition is switched "ON," current is supplied to the coil primary windings and grounded through the igniter within the distributor. Each time the ECU commands the igniter to break the ground connection, the magnetic field created by current flowing through the coil primary windings collapses, inducing high secondary voltage (20,000 plus volts) required to fire spark plugs.

The pick-up coil and igniter assembly generate a "G" signal monitored by the ECU to detect #1 cylinder TDC and utilized in calculations for fuel injection timing. Engine rpm is determined by a signal from the ignition coil negative terminal.

Timing advance is controlled in two ways. A mechanical governor weight system moves the rotor ahead in relation to engine speed and distributor shaft rotation speed. As engine and distributor shaft speed increase, spring-loaded weights swing outward due to centrifugal force, moving the upper distributor shaft and rotor ahead in relation to the lower (driven) part of the shaft. At low speeds, the springs hold the weights in, preventing the upper distributor shaft and rotor from moving ahead (advancing).

A vacuum diaphragm is used to advance timing according to engine load. An arm from the vacuum unit is attached to the breaker plate, moving the pick-up coil in relation to the reluctor as vacuum varies with load.

graphic

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SPARK TEST

Coil Voltage Check

CAUTION: To reduce the hazard of fire or explosion, ensure that no fuel leaks exist before conducting this test. Do not check for spark near the battery.

  1. Disconnect ignition coil lead from distributor.
  2. With insulated pliers, hold end approximately 0.20 - 0.39 in (5 - 10 mm) from ground and crank engine.
  3. Verify that a strong blue spark jumps the gap.
  4. If there is no spark, check for battery voltage at the coil positive terminal with ignition switch "ON."
  5. If there is no voltage, check main fuse, ignition switch. Repair the problem as required.

RESISTANCE CHECK

Ignition Coil Resistance Check

  1. Check primary resistance across coil terminals as indicated on image.
  2. Check secondary resistance as indicated on image.
  3. Check insulation resistance between primary positive terminal and coil case. It should be 10M ohms or higher.
  4. Replace coil if it does not test as specified.

All troubleshooting must begin by "CHECKING THE BASICS." Certain basic faults can be undetectable by the ECU self-diagnostic system and in some cases can actually interfere with self-checking and fault memory operation. For example, low battery voltage can cause erroneous faults to set in ECU memory or can cause a system to go "Fail-Safe" without setting a fault code. However, if the ECU or battery are disconnected, fault codes are cleared from memory. Fault codes should be read prior to any power interruption or troubleshooting. Before any teardown, repair or component replacement, the following should always be considered:

COMPLAINT VERIFICATION

Whenever possible, the technician should personally verify complaints. Having experienced the malfunction, the technician is less likely to attempt repair of non-existent problems.

MALFUNCTION VERIFICATION

Today's sophisticated automotive systems are easily misunderstood, leading to repairs that attempt to force a particular system to perform as it was never intended. Therefore, the troubleshooting technician should compare actual system operation to nominal system operation described in DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION. The technician is also encouraged to compare problem vehicle system operation with a known good vehicle.

PREVIOUS REPAIRS

Vehicle repair history can provide explanations for unusual complaints which seem to elude normal troubleshooting procedures. Incorrect components or unapproved repairs can have subtle influences on seemingly unrelated systems.

BATTERY STATE OF CHARGE

Batteries in a state of partial discharge can have dramatic effects on electronic control units and related components.

POSITIVE BATTERY CABLE INTEGRITY

All battery positive connections must be in perfect condition for trouble-free electronic system operation. Refer to ELECTRICAL AND ELECTRONIC DIAGRAMS for battery positive interconnects.

FUSIBLE LINK INTEGRITY

Fusible links are used to prevent possible damage to electrical components and wiring harnesses. These links and their connections must be without dynamic resistance. Dynamic resistance can only be checked using the voltage drop method of testing.

NEGATIVE GROUND CONNECTIONS

Because all electrical circuits are a circle, battery negative connections must also be checked and verified to be in perfect condition. A poor common ground point will cause seemingly unrelated systems to influence one another. High current systems which encounter a poor common ground can back feed through other electrical systems, causing unusual operation and perhaps inexplicable component failure. Battery negative (ground) side of the electrical system should be checked dynamically using the voltage drop method.

POWER TRAIN CABLE ATTACHMENTS

Metal cables attached to engine or transmission which appear overheated and/or discolored indicate the need to thoroughly test all ground connections.

POWER SUPPLY RELAYS

Fuel pump and main relays, as well as their plug connections, can be a source of intermittent problems which will not set an ECU malfunction code.

HIGH TENSION COIL AND SECONDARY COMPONENTS WIRING

The secondary ignition system should be checked visibly as well as with a suitable engine analyzer and scope. All components should be examined for tight connections and freedom from carbon tracking, moisture and corrosion.

FUEL DELIVERY AND FUEL RAIL PRESSURE (FI VEHICLES)

Fuel delivery must begin at once when cranking and fuel rail pressure must be within specifications. Fuel pressure must be retained between fuel pump outlet and pressure regulator after engine shutdown.

SPARK PLUG CLEARANCE

If out of specification, spark plug gap can significantly impair engine performance. Spark plug type, condition and gap must be verified according to specifications.

VACUUM AND VAPOR HOSE INTEGRITY

Vacuum and vapor hoses must be routed correctly and not leaking. Always use underhood labels for primary information and refer to VACUUM AND VAPOR DIAGRAMS for verification.

AIR/FUEL RATIO

Electronic engine management systems efficiently compensate for conditions which may affect the combustion process. However, when troubleshooting idle quality or driveability complaints, it is still necessary to consider the following:

  • Injector spray pattern quality
  • Presence of unmetered air leaks
  • Evaporative purge system
  • Excessive engine oil dilution
  • Substandard fuel or unapproved additives
  • Carbon build-up

TESTING EQUIPMENT

High quality testing equipment is essential if accurate results are expected. The use of faulty or incompatible equipment will result in erroneous test results. Use only suitable test leads, terminals and probe tips.


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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
hi drew

I didnt know how to check the wires but your diagram made sense. There are two wire bundles going to the ignition coil each wiht a black / wh wire. I couldnt tell which one was from ig1 so just teseted them both sure enough one has 12 volts going to it.

so i pulled the ignition coil. this coil is not like the ones listed. let me see if i can describe it , it looks like the one in "coil voltage pic" above except the one plug actually is bolted to the assembly and when you remove the coil bolts it basically falls off - I am assuming i can just test that independently ? because when i do check the resistance on that one its infinity

the one that is part of the coil test at about 800 - however, the secondary coil resistance is also infinity so i think i need a new coil?
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

Since you have 12v supply to the ignition coil but your secondary coil resistance is not between 6,000-30,000 ohms, according to the diagnosis test you have a faulty coil.

This is a good place to start.

Let me know if that resolves you concern.

Thanks

Drew

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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
Hi Drew - just to let you know i am still waiting on the ignition coil - being a weekend mechanic this takes a fair amount of time. Once here I will let you know what happens. I also need to see if that fixes the tach and the no shift problem

Hi Drew - just to let you know i am still waiting on the ignition coil - being a weekend mechanic this takes a fair amount of time. Once here I will let you know what happens. I also need to see if that fixes the tach and the no shift problem

Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago
Sound good. I will look for your results.
Thanks
Drew
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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
Hi Drew Got the coil hope to get it in this weekend but my toyota just blew its engine ! will let you know what happens thanks for being patient
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

No problem Mike.

Sorry to hear about the bad news with the Toyota.

Have a great weekend.

Drew

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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
HI Drew : PUt in new ignition coil - no spark - yet I have 12 volts at the coil??

- I am going to go buy a new coil to distributor wire and see if that is the problem

Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

The coil still needs a ground signal to produce spark. When the ignition is switched "ON," current is supplied to the coil primary windings and grounded through the igniter within the distributor. Each time the ECU commands the igniter to break the ground connection, the magnetic field created by current flowing through the coil primary windings collapses, inducing high secondary voltage (20,000 plus volts) required to fire spark plugs.

Thanks

Drew

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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
you are thinking that grounding may be an issue?

from what you say the coil does not ground through its contact with the frame but rather throught the ignitor in the distributor ? HOw do i check that ?
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

Here is the test for the pick up coil (igniter)

You should have already tested this in the previous steps but if you missed it, here it is again.

  1. Measure resistance across pick-up coil terminals. It should read 900 - 1200 ohms.
  2. If not within specification, replace pick-up coil and igniter assembly.

graphic

As the signal rotor turns with the distributor shaft, protrusions on the rotor (one for each cylinder) pass close to the pick-up coil, causing a disruption in the coil's magnetic field. This disruption is the signal used by the igniter to disconnect the primary coil circuit ground connection and induce high voltage from the coil secondary windings. To control ignition timing advance, the relationship between signal rotor and pick-up coil varies with engine load (vacuum advance mechanism) and engine speed (centrifugal advance mechanism).

graphic

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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
hEY dREW

hAVE NOT GOT A CHANCE TO CHECK DISTRIBUTOR WILL DO THIS WEEKEND
THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE

Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago
No problem.

I am in no hurry.

Take as much time as you need.

Thanks

Drew
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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
graphicgraphicgraphic

Hi Drew

well not having much luck went after ignitor but could not get to it. Doesnt look like pic First off there was a bolt in the middle under the rotor - that held the nub that the rotor lined up on - of course when that came out - there is no way to insure that the rotor will be lined up where it should be when I put it bak in - next you can see that the ignitor will not come out. It is attached to a plastic circle - that circle cannot come out because of the plastic projection and you cant just pull the ignitor out - when I tried it looks there are wires that are going to break

i guwess i am going to have to look for a new used distributior but then will have to line it up to first cylinder first plug
Customer reply replied 11 years ago
Hi Drew:

Well something is not right here> I bought a repair manual and have been looking for distributors on line they all have a vaccum advance - mine does not! There is only an electrical wire coming out no vacuum advance lines. It is fuel injected mazda b 2600i 4 x4 se-5 zate of manufacture 11/89. COuld it be that it is a 1990 setup ??Hi Drew
I just looked online at 1990 distributors - they look a lot more like the one that is in the truck there is no vacuum advance . could that be what has happenend?

MIke
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

That is very possible. I suggest that you start by getting the correct distributor for your truck.

Normally a 11 build date is for the next year vehicle.

I suspect that your truck is a 1990 and not a 1989.

Here is a diagram of the distributor for each.

Here is the identification information.

Thanks

Drew

To identify an engine by the manufacturer's code, follow the four steps designated by the numbered blocks.

V.I.N. PLATE LOCATION:

On engine bulkhead or on top left side of instrument panel visible thru windshield.

(1) MODEL YEAR IDENTIFICATION:

1990 - 81 - 10th character of V.I.N.
1990 - L
1989 - K
1988 - J
1987 - H
1986 - G
1985 - F
1984 - E
1983 - D
1982 - C
1981 - B

(2) ENGINE CODE LOCATION:

1990-86 - 8th character of V.I.N.
1985-81 - 5th character of V.I.N.

Fig. 2 Engine Identification.


(3] ENGINE CODE: In the "CODE" column, find the engine code determined in Step 2.

(4) ENGINE IDENTIFICATION: On the line where the engine code appears, read to the right to identify the engine.

1990 below.

graphic

1989 below.

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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
Yea its a 1990 - OK I wil get a used one online - be back in a week or so - I'd like to release payment to you as long as you will stick with me - you have done a lot already !!

MIke
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

Sounds good.

I will always be here to answer any additional questions.

If you don't hear back form me after 5 days, just reply again and I will receive a reminder.

Thanks

Drew

Drew
Drew, Super Mazda Tech.
Category: Mazda
Satisfied Customers: 2,518
Experience: 19 yrs. experience. Mazda Senior Certified Tech, with Ford, Linc. & Merc. experience. ASE L1 Advanced Certified Master Tech.
Verified
Drew and 87 other Mazda Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
HI Drew:

How do I check the voltage on a 1990 distrivutor ignitor ??
Customer reply replied 11 years ago
hI Drew:

Not certain if you are getting these messages - in any case before I shell out for a new distributor i'd like to check the one i have - how do I check the voltrage on this one (its a 1990)

Mike
Customer reply replied 11 years ago
Relist: Other.
i PAID dREW AND ASKED IF HE WOUDL STICK WITH ME ON THIS ISSUE i HAVE POSTED 2 QUESTIONS NO RESPONSE i AM NOT CERTAIN IF HE IS GETTING THE QUESTIONS
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

Sorry for the delay, I was out of town for over a week but I'm back now.

Here is the only information I can find for testing your igniter.

Thanks
Drew

The Igniter, located near the coil on the left inner fender, is a switching
device that activates the primary ignition coil circuit. The ECU determines
optimum ignition timing from various inputs and transmits a primary current
"OFF" signal to the igniter to control ignition timing.

graphic





NOTE: This test requires Mazda Special Service Tools (SST) or
aftermarket equivalents.

  1. Disconnect igniter connector.
  2. Connect adapter (SST #49 N018 001) between igniter and wiring harness.
  3. Attach 4-pin connector of igniter checker (SST #49 F018 002) to adapter
    harness.
  4. Connect igniter checker power leads to battery.
  5. Turn ignition switch "ON."
  6. Disconnect high tension coil lead from distributor cap and hold 0.20 - 0.39
    in (5 - 10 mm) from a ground.
  7. Flip SW2 "ON" and "OFF" and verify that strong blue sparks are discharged
    from the high tension lead.




CAUTION: Do not hold SW2 "ON" for longer than one
second.

  1. Replace the igniter if it does not perform as
    specified.



graphic

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Customer reply replied 11 years ago
Hi Drew:

Thanks for your response. Well I am just getting in deeper - LOL

So you may recall I bought a new coil but the coil was for an 89 not a 90 It did not exactly match the one that was there. There was an attacehd part on it - which was the ignitor

So in any case will the 89 coil work or is that a no no

mike
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 11 years ago

I suspect that the coils are not interchangeable between vehicles. I suggest going with the correct coil for the 1990 vehicle.

The part numbers are different also.

Thanks

Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hi Drew

There are 2 different coils for 1990 UNfortuatnely I threw mine out. There is a hanshin and a mitsubishi cna you get me a pic of each so i can tell which one it is . Thansjk

mike
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Here is a diagram of the only on my information lists.

Thanks
Drew

Duralast/Ignition Coil

For your 1990 Mazda Truck B2600I 4WD 2.6L FI 4cyl

Price:$67.99

Enlarge Image



Part Number: C946

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
HI Drew:

Not getting anywhere. I bought from a junkyard what was suppose to be a Hanshin coil yet when it arrived it had mitsubishi markings I hooked it up and one of the wires actually melted the plastic. SO I am now trying to get a mitsubishi one. The coil looks as follows :

1.) High voltage wire going to distributor - obviously

2.) next to that is a white 3 prong adaptor - thats it for the coil but attached to the bracket is then
3.) an ignitor black three prong adaptor that sits behind the coil

is this the mitsubishi or hanshin ?

mike
Customer reply replied 10 years ago
HI Drew!

So I have the corerct coil - got it all hooked uop with the new ignitor etc - no spark

so I would like to check the system as outlined as was outlined above for the 1989 but do you have those instructions for the 1990?

Mike
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Here is the ignition testing for the 1990 Mazda B2600 4x4.

Thanks

Drew

graphic

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The Igniter, located near the coil on the left inner fender, is a switching
device that activates the primary ignition coil circuit. The ECU determines
optimum ignition timing from various inputs and transmits a primary current
"OFF" signal to the igniter to control ignition timing.

The ECU
calculates input from these devices to control ignition
timing:

Distributor Ne signal
Water thermosensor
Airflow
sensor
Idle switch
Ignition switch ("START" position)
Test connector
(for base timing adjustment)

The ignition coil, located on the left side of the engine compartment, is
constructed using the principle of mutual induction to step up low (battery)
voltage to high (ignition) voltage capable of firing the spark
plugs
. The coil consists of two windings of wire, primary and secondary,
around a laminated iron core. When battery voltage flows through the outer,
primary winding, a magnetic field is created. When current flow is stopped by
the igniter
interrupting the ground connection, the magnetic field collapses onto the
secondary windings, producing high voltage in the secondary windings. Ignition
wires then direct voltage to the spark plugs. The ratio of turns in the primary
winding to turns in the secondary winding determines voltage multiplication.





SPARK TEST





CAUTION: To reduce the hazard of fire or explosion, ensure that no fuel
leaks exist before conducting this test. Do not check for spark near the
battery.


  1. Disconnect ignition coil lead from distributor.

  2. With insulated pliers, hold end approximately 0.20 - 0.39 in (5 - 10 mm)
    from ground and crank engine.
  3. Verify that a strong blue spark jumps the gap.
  4. If there is no spark, check for battery voltage at the coil positive
    terminal with ignition
    switch
    "ON."
  5. If there is no voltage, check main fuse, ignition
    switch
    . Repair the problem as required.

RESISTANCE CHECK













Ignition Coil Resistance
Check









  1. Check primary resistance across coil terminals as indicated on image.
  2. Check secondary resistance as indicated on image.
  3. Check insulation resistance between primary positive terminal and coil case.
    It should be 10M ohms or higher.
  4. Replace coil if it does not test as
    specified.
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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hi Drew:

Well I dont know I must be doing something wrong -

Defintelky no spark at the coil high voltage lead to the distributor

The white connector to the coil has 12 volts coming from the swtich. The coils resistance checks out fine. T^he ignitor is a "used " new one but I cnat check that

Still no spark

I am beginning to think perhaps somehting else possible the ECU

From what i read the coil needs to be shut down by the ignitor - when the magnetic field collaspe that generates the spark. My guess is that whatever is suppose to tell the ignitor to shut off flow to the coil is not doing it properly??

Mike
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

I suggest checking all wiring between the distributor and ECM. Make sure you have source voltage and ground as supposed to (per wiring diagram) If all good, I suspect a faulty distributor. You should be able to remove the distributor and with the key on, spin the shaft and get spark (simulates cranking)

The distributor utilizes a photo-diode type crank angle sensor consisting of a slotted disc that turns with the distributor shaft and a stationary pick-up assembly. As the disc rotates past the pick-up, the slots (one for each cylinder) alternately pass and block photo-diode light transmission. Signals generated are interpreted by the ECU to determine crank angle (#1 cylinder TDC) and engine rpm. To calculate ignition timing, the ECU uses this input together with several others related to vehicle operating conditions. Except for the initial setting, ignition timing is under ECU control

graphic

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hi Drew!

SO thanks for sticking with me - I must be a pain in the butt ! LOL !
i
I am not great at wiring diagrmas - you say check source voltage and ground - is this at the distributor? I dont see it on the diagram. I beleive there are four wires going into the side of the distibutor - is this where I should be checking for voltage and ground ? If so how ?

ALso If I understand you correctly - if I pull the distributor out and just twirl it by hand (wiht the ignition on on ) I should get a spark - if I do then the distributor is good if I dont then its bad ?

What I am not ff though is shouldnt that distributor be turning when I turn the engine over - so I am not clear on why twisting it by hand is any different ??
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Source voltage is 12 colts form the ignition/battery and ground you will have to set meter to ohms scale and key off, test between ground wire and negative battery cable. You will check the wires at the distributor. They are listed as the crank angle sensor in the wiring diagram. (right side of diagram w/ 4 wires) The top of the wiring diagram is battery and the wires that attach to the bottom of the wiring diagram are ground.

You are correct. You can spinn the distributor shaft by hand and if evrything is correct, you will have spark. If still no spark, that does not mean the distributor is faulty because there is still wiring and ECM that may be faulty.

Also here is a test to see if there are any fault codes stored in the computer. This fault code may help determine where the fault is in the system.

Thanks
Drew

When trouble occurs in the main input or output devices, test the system to find the cause. During testing, failures of input and output devices are retrieved from the control unit as malfunction code numbers.

NOTE: The control unit constantly checks for malfunction of the input devices. But, it only checks for malfunction of output devices in a 3 second period after the ignition switch is turned on with the test connector grounded. If there is more than one failure code present, the lowest number malfunction code is displayed first, then the subsequent malfunction codes light up in order.

NOTE: This method may only be applicable to systems with a test connector and a Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) or CHECK engine light.


INSPECTION PROCEDURE

  1. Warm up the engine to normal operating temperature and then turn it off.
  2. Ground the test connector (Green: 1-pin) with a jumper wire.

NOTE: The connector is located next to the Self-Diagnostic Connector.

  1. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
  2. If the CHECK engine light illuminates, goes off, and stays off no codes are present.
  3. If the CHECK engine light illuminates, goes off, and then starts flashing, codes are present.
  4. Start the engine and check for additional codes.
  5. If any codes are retrieved, repair the cause of the problem, refering to the COMPUTERIZED ENGINE CONTROLS SECTION for procedures as needed.

AFTER REPAIR PROCEDURE

  1. Erase the malfunction codes from memory by disconnecting the negative battery cable and depressing the brake pedal for at least five seconds. Reconnect the battery cable.
  2. Ensure that the engine is at normal operating temperature, then ground the test connector.
  3. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
  4. If the CHECK engine light illuminates, goes off, and stays off no codes are present.
  5. If the CHECK engine light illuminates, goes off, and then starts flashing, codes are present.
  6. Start the engine and check for additional codes.
  7. If any codes are retrieved, repair the cause of the problem, then perform after repair procedures again.

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Great I will give this a try - let me see if I understand the testing -

so on the diagram

the wires P and Y/L are heading to /from the ECU

with the ignition 'on' these should both reveal 12 volts?

and the b/y and b wires are heading to the main relay and somewhere else - these I should test for continuity between them at the distributor and the negative battery terminal ?
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

The P and Y/L wires are the input/signal wires to the ECM. There may not be voltage at either of them but you can try. You would have to remove the ECM connector and connect your meter (ohm scale) whith one meter lead connected to the P wire at the ECM connector and the other meter lead connected to the P wire at the distributor. Make sure both wire connectors are disconnected. Do the same test with the Y/L wire. Your meter should read less than 5 ohms on the P and Y/L wires.

The B/Y wire is the ignition feed wire to the cranks sensor. With the key on, you should have 12V there.

The B wire is the ground. You will have to ohm test that wire between the connector and battery ground.

Thanks
Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hey Drew Merry Christmas!

Hope you had a good one.

OK so everything checks out

B/Y wire has 12 volts
B wire has continuity to ground at battery

Both P and Y/l wires have contnuity from the ecu to the distrbutor
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Thanks and Merry Christmas to you.

Since all the wiring test out ok, I suspect that you have a faulty distributor.

I also suggest performing the test to see if any fault codes are stored in the computer.

In the electronic engine control system utilized on this vehicle, two signals generated by the distributor crank angle sensor are used by the ECU in its calculations for various outputs. When problems with these signals are detected, malfunction codes are set and can be retrieved from the on-board diagnostic system.

A faulty "Ne" signal will set malfunction code 02. A problem with the "G" signal will set malfunction code 03.

These fault codes will help determine if there is a fault somewhere else before you replace the distributor.

Thanks
Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Sorry forgot to do that. I have had the battery out of the vehicle will that erase the codes ?
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

That may erase the codes but make sure everything is connected and try to start the vehicel several times and that may be enough to set and store a fault code in the ECM.

Thanks
Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hey Drew this is kind of interesteing I do not get any check engine light - ever

I can turn the switch to on and no check engine light

the warning lights I can get to show are from left to right

A/T temp; empty (this is where I suspect the check engine light should be) ; "hold" for the overdrive then charge; brake; oil; seat belts and 4x4

So Without that I cant get any codes

ANy ideas ?? Should I still get a new used distributor ?

MIke
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

That is interesting. If the check engine light bulb will not self test when the key is turned on, then the bulb may be burnt out or someone removed it??

You will need to remove the instrument cluster and inspect the bulb. Swap a bulb with another known good bulb.

You can use a flash light to shine at the instrument cluster and should be able to see where the check engine light is.

Just hold off on the distributor.

Thanks
Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hey Drew
So i Got the dash pulled and sure enough there is no light looks like someone took it out - looks like the lightsw just clip into the board somehow so I am guessing I can just get a new one and put it in?
Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hi Drew so I just realized I could just swap the lights - (DUH!) so I did that and the check engine light comes on. I hooked the single green connector to the negative of the battery ( i am assuming that will work as ground ??)

OK so I Turn the key to "start" and tunk the engine over for 5 - 10 seconds and let the ignition switch fall back to "on" - all the warning lights stay on except seat belt and brakes - they went off - the check engine , charge and oil all stay on.

Check engine stays on does not blink. I unhooked the green lead but get the same result ?
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

I told you that you could swap the bulb out with another known good bulb in my last reply. Well now at least you got that to work.

Since the check engine light didn't flash, I suspect there are no codes or it just hasn't been driven or started and that is why the light stayed on but no flashes.

We will go with no fault codes for now.

Your next step will be to try a distributor. If that doesn't resolve your concern, the next step is the ECM computer. All wiring and sensors test ok so far.

Thanks and Happy New Year!!!

Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Are the lights suppose to stay on ? or should they go off after several seconds?

MIke

Have a great New Year
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

When the ignition key is turned to the on position, all the lights will stay on untill the vehicle is started or engine is running. Normal. This is how all vehicles are. You can even double check one of your other vehicles. It is call a system bulb check.

Thanks
Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
OK _ i ordered a distributor and also found an ECU for $60 (but did not order that yet) - thanks for all of your help its sincerely appreciated !
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago
No problem.

I will look for your reply after replacing the distributor.

Thanks
Drew
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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hey Drew ! Bet you are sick of hearing from me ! LOL !

ANyway i replaced the distibutor - nothing so I will get the used ECU. ONe other question. I was looking at the wiring going to the coil and noitced that one was a bit ragged and I wanted to check it for coinuitity back to the ecu the only problem is there are what seems to be 4 or so with the same color - black with a silver tab on it .

The one in question runs to the coil - not the white connector on the fornt but the serpate connector that sits on the back ( not the ignitor) where does that one insert into the ecu ?

MIke
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Here is the ECM connector index and wiring diagram. If the wire looks damaged, repair the section of damaged wire. The wire may only have 1 strand left but still give you a good coinuitity check and not hold up in current flow.

Thanks
Drew

graphic

graphic

graphic

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Thanks Drew - its the black it must be the one on the condensor - its going to ground so I can just put it directly to the body correct?

I ordered the ECU today

You need an award for the longest runnig problem !!!
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Any clean body meal will work as a ground. Make sure there is a good ground between the battery and body also.

I don't want that award. My goal is to fix the car in 1 day not 4 months.

Thanks

Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hey Drew :

So I got the ECU and put it in and guess what ...................................it started !!!! Amazing thanks for all of your help!

I was talking to my friend and he remeberd that i had welded the muffelr while it wa ont he car . He said that that probably fried the ECU. I never realized that could happen - you can bet fron now on i will either take the part off or dicsonnect the ECU !!!
Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Well I guess I was a bit too excited about it starting . there are still the other issues I mentioned - she does not seem to be shifitng (automatic) but I cant be certain (no license on it so I ma going to have to take it out some early AM . wil let ya know)

Also the temp gauge is not working. I checked the meter fuse that was fine. I dont think the gas gauge is working either - will get gas tomorrow and fill it and see if it moves - from what i remember it did not the last time i put 5 gallons it I pulled the water sensor and heated some water up to just belwo boiling. I dropped it in and turned the ignition to on and the gauge did not move. I suspect I must have fried that too?

Can I get seperate gauges ?

Interestingly I was not getting heat so I pulled the theermostat and that was caput. I dont think that would have any effect on the temeperature gauge though as it should have responeded to the boiling water ?
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Thats great news.

I have welded a million times on vehicles without disconnecting anything and never had a problem.

I suspect that it was just a fluke.

Now for your other concerns. You can buy gauges seperately. You can also install a aftermarket gauge.

Here is a wiring diagram for the gauges. Check source voltage to the instrument cluster and test the wiring from gauges to the sensors.

Since you have had a lot of wiring apart during the repair, triple check all connectors and wiring.

I also noticed that you have only accepted one of mmy answers and it would be nice to get another accept for all the work on the last repair.

Thanks
Drew

graphic

Drew
Drew, Super Mazda Tech.
Category: Mazda
Satisfied Customers: 2,518
Experience: 19 yrs. experience. Mazda Senior Certified Tech, with Ford, Linc. & Merc. experience. ASE L1 Advanced Certified Master Tech.
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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
SUre Great JOB ! MANy thanks !!! I will get a new used dash and she should be ready to go .. Great JOB !!!
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Thanks again.

Drew

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hey Drew sorry to bother you again. I got a new (used) instrument panel and the gas gauge and temp are still not working. I have an 89 book in the 90 diagram you sent it shows that there is a regulator that looks like it controls both of these ( that is not in the 89 diagram)

I put the water sensor in hot water and the gauge did not move

I checked the sensor resistance cold it was infinity after putting it into near boiling hot water it read 325 ohms

I then checked the resistance to the water GAUGE wiht the ignition on - that read 477

I checked the fuse to the meter and that is good.
As a side point shouldnt i get 12 volts runnnign through that fuse ? I dont get anything

My guess is its this regulator
Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Hi Drew: I also checked the black - yellow wires coming into the meter and wiht the key on they are both carrying 12 volts. I wnated to check the gauges themselves by utting 12 volts right to them - dont know if you would know how to do this. fhere are 3 screws on each gauge and one empty hole

Its kind of cool you can follow the paths on the green flexible silicone . IN any case i am not certain where i woudl put 12 volts to on the gauges any idea?

mike
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

Sorry for the delay. I never got the reply for your question.

The regulator is part of the instrument cluster. It is internally built into the circuit board. If it didn't work in either cluster, I suspect that it is ok.

If all the other lights illuminate and the tach works along with the 4X4 lights, then the fuse and internal instrument cluster circuit connections are ok.

The gauge has 12 volts supplied to it form the fuse and the sensor is the ground. You will need to ohm put the wire form the instrument cluster Y/W pin 3A to the sensor to verify that the circuit is less than 5 ohms. You can also ground the wire at the sensor and the gauge should go full hot.

You should have either 5 volts or 12 volts coming out of the cluster to the sensor. The resistor in the sensor causes the resistance in the ground side of the circuit to determine the position of the gauge.

Thanks

Drew

You can do the same with the fuel gauge Y wire pin 1H at the cluster to the fuel tank. If you ground this wire at fuel tank, the gauge should read full.

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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
HI Drew

something not right here

ok so the water temperature sensor sits right next to the thermostat (plugs in just behind it?). I have looked at pics online and I am pretty sure I am at the right sensor

The color of the wires to that sensor are green / yellow and then brown / black
There is no yellow / white ???

I assume the gr/y was from the meter and the br/b was going to ground.

1.) If I connect br/b to the negative of battery i get continuity

2.) If I measure resistant between these two wires with ignition on its infinity

3.) If I connect the gr/y to ground the meter does not move

4.) NOw interstingly enough there is NO gr/y wire going inot the meter !??

5.) The wire you reference 3A is a solid yellow (small silver tabs on it but no white stripe)

6.) I put in the sensor and then measured resistance from 3A at the connector at the meter to ground and got 94 ohms ??

I dont know it seems we are on two different pages ?
Mazda Mechanic: Drew, Super Mazda Tech. replied 10 years ago

That 2 wire sensor is the engine coolant temp sensor for the computer and not the gauge.

The coolant sensor for the gauge only has 1 wire Y/W. It is labeled EM27 in this 2.6L engine diagram for it's location.

Thanks
Drew

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