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I have a 2004 Sweetwater pontoon boat with a Yamaha TLR-50

Hello I have a 2004 Sweetwater...
Hello
I have a 2004 Sweetwater pontoon boat with a Yamaha TLR-50
The ignition was acting flaky in that it would not sometimes it would not start (no power) and other times it would not shut off.
It has a Yamaha 704 control, so I bought a new ignition assembly.and installed.
Now it will not start - no turn over - completely dead.
Battery is charged up, the navigation & docking lights work, and i can use the trim tilt AT THE ENGINE ONLY - no trim tilt at the 704 control.
Also, although the nav & docking lights work, there is no power coming to the gauges.
Where would I begin the troubleshooting?
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10/29/2016
Tan
Tan, MerCruiser Certified Technician
Category: Marine Electronics
Satisfied Customers: 11,091
Experience: 40 yrs. experience with complete engine repairs both inboard/outboard and MerCruiser Certified Technician.
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Hello, I'm Tan. Welcome to JustAnswer. I'm reviewing your question and will reply momentarily.

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Have you checked the engine fuse?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
where is that located? The helm station has a row of breakers none are popped
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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I'll run down & check now

Ok. It is a 20 amp fuse.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Tan -I checked the fuse - it tests OKMaybe you can give me a list of things to look for so I can test when Im at the boat

Ok first lets verify the engine runs. Locate the start relay disconnect the brown wire going to the relay apply 12 volts to the brown wire on the relay with key on. Be sure you have water connected to the engine. Does engine start and run?

If no then we need to test for voltage at the battery and the start relay.

If engine runs then we need to check for voltage at the red wire on the key switch.

Post back with findings.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
There is no brown wire at the relay.I bypassed the relay, put 12V onto the starter & it cranks
This is a pain in the ass as my boat is still in the water- I have to hang my 56 year old body over the back of the boat.The red wire at the ignition switch is capped off - always has been.So, I'm getting voltage to the nav & docking lights
voltage from the battery to the starter when jumped
None of the gauges turn on when the key is turned on

The nav lights and the boat accessories have nothing to do with the engine or the gauges they are on a different circuit. Do you have voltage on any of the wires at the key switch?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
The ignition switch connections are an 8 pin barrel connector, with blue, red, green, white pink, brown, yellow, black
and 3 push connector wires yellow, green, black - the red is capped off.Where should I connect my meter to test?

It should be the red wire but you say it is capped off. So you have no red on the key switch?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
There is a red wire on the 8 pin connector- I'm guessing to measure from the black to red on this connector?

Do you have 12 volts on any wire at the key switch. You must have voltage at the key switch to power up gauges and start the engine. All we need to know is do you have 12 volts?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I'll try to test on Wednesday

Ok

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Hello TanTested for voltage at the battery & keyswitch
Battery read 12.4
keyswitch connector read 11.6Could this be a neutral safety issue?

That wouldn't explain the gauges not working. When you turn key on do you have voltage to any of the other terminals?

Then when you turn key to crank position do you have voltage to any terminals?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Which terminals should I be checking?

It doesn't matter I just want to see if you are getting voltage to any of the terminals.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
When I tested this morning, there is a heavy gauge wire connector that goes to the row of breakers, there is voltage there and across all of the breakers - there is voltage at the large barrel connector for the keyswitch, and voltage at the small white barrel connector that connects to the keyswitch harness - all of this was tested with the keyswitch in the off position - which probably wouldn't matter once the large barrel connector is disconnected to test

You have to use a piercing probe to do load test on the key switch wiring. We must test voltage on all wires with key in on position loading the circuit and with key in crank position loading the start circuit.

I think you have a voltage issue as you should have the same voltage at the key switch as the battery. So you have a bad connection on the hot side or a bad ground.

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You should have white, black,pink, red and brown to key switch. We need voltage at the red all the time. Voltage on pink key on and voltage to the pink and brown when cranking.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Tan - I would like to work with a different expert
Jason
Jason, Marine Mechanic
Category: Marine Electronics
Satisfied Customers: 16,288
Experience: Degree in Marine Technology, Also Certified with Mercury Marine, MCM, MIE, VP, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki
Verified

Hello my name Is***** am another expert here.

There is no TLR-50 model engine. Is this engine a 50TLR, or is it an F50TLR? I need to know if it's a two or a 4 stroke.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Hi Jason - We have worked in the past
It is a 50TLR
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
2 Stroke

Good morning. I read what you and Tan talked about One thing I don't see is how many wires you have at the key switch and what color they are. Can you tell me what color wires you have on the key switch presently.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Looking at the back of the black barrel connector, from right to left,
Blue, Red, Green
White, Pink, Brown
Yellow, Black
There is also a pigtail that has Red (Capped Off), Black, Green, Yellow.
From The Buzzer - Yellow/Brown stripe, Pink/Brown stripe
From the Lanyard Safety - White & Black

Got it. What do you show for power on the red wire at the key switch?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Here is where I'm stuck - I don't have a set of piercing probe - I'll have them on Monday.
However, when I disconnect the black barrel connector, I read around 11.6V from the red to black pins.

Do you have a small sewing needle?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I can get that - what should I measure?

Pierce that red wire with your sewing needle and stick your red meter lead on that. Then take your negative meter lead and run that to a good ground. Make 2 measurements, the first with the key in the off position, the 2nd with the key turned to RUN. Let me know what you get for both readings.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
OK I'll be back in a while to let you know

Okay no problem, let me know how you make out.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
JasonI'll have to pick this up on Friday
Can you advise what the measurements should be with the keyswitch on and off?
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
OK Here's what I have
Meter connected to Red wire at ignition switch & ground reads .6vdc key off & .0004vdc key on

Got it. You said you checked the fuse already, did you just look at it or did you check for power at the fuse? Do you show any power at the fuse?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I checked the fuse at the engine for continuity - tested OK - I can retest for power tomorrowWhats strange is that when I disconnect the black 8-pin connector at the keyswitch, it reads 12vdc on the red pin , when I re-connected it to the keyswitch & pierced the red insulation, I get the .6vdc reading

Hmmm That would indicate a poor connection. What kind of connector is there, is it a bullet style connector, or more of a molded plastic plug?

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Are you able to cut both red wires out of that plug and then use a butt style connector to join the two back together?

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Hello, just checking in. Any progress?

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Customer reply replied 11 months ago
Hello JasonI towed the boat out of the lake and have it under wraps for now.
Can we continue in the spring? I know its a long time.

Of course, there are never any time limits here.

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Good morning. I saw that you started a new question. All you need to do is reply back to this question here and we can continue.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
OK Thanks JasonSo to recap - last year my ignition switch no longer works- I can jump terminals at motor to crank OKI failed to mention, that before the ignition switch failure, last season, the motor would start OK from the key switch - However, it would not always turn off - sometimes I would disconnect the barrel connector under the helm, and the engine would stop - sometimes I would turn the key on & off several times to stop the motor - not sure if this is related to anything, but I thought I would addd it to the problem.I put a freshly charged battery in yesterday - 12.7 volts at terminal, and 12.7 volts under helm from red & black multipoint connector white connector.Minimum voltage across red & ground at barrel connector to keyswitch - I have attached pics if it will assist - img- 0736 is where I show 12.7 V (white connector - from red to ground) - img-0738 & omg-0739 shows the test connection & voltage at the keyswitch barrel connector.

Okay got it. Hold the key to start. With the key held to start what is the voltage on the yellow wire, and the brown wire?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
OK I tested a few ways:Brown to Ground - Key ON = .0038VDC
Brown To Ground - Key turned to start.0003 VDCYellow to ground - Key ON = .0003 VDC
Yellow to Ground - Key turned to start = .0003 VDCYellow to Brown - Key ON = (-).0029VDC
Yellow to Brown - Key turned to start = .0001 VDC

What is the voltage on the red (or red/purple) wire?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
The red wire - on the barrel connector to ignition switch measures .0532 when connected to ground pic attached.Red to ground on the white connector harness (pic attached) measures 12.7VDC ( I didn't take a meter pic for this)I don't see a red/purple on the ignition barrel harness, but I think there might be one on the white connector harness

I don't know what that plastic connector is for, i'm only concerned with the wiring to the key switch. There is no voltage going to the red wire at the key switch connector, is that correct?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Correct no voltage at red wire on ignition barrel connector

Good morning. It sounds like the engine fuse is going to be blown. Have you checked the 20 amp fuse on the engine yet?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I looked back on the questions for last year, and it looks like the fuse tested OK, but it also looked like there was voltage at the red keyswitch terminal alsoI'll check the fuse when I get home tonight, and will let you know

Voltage for the red wire at the key switch comes from that fuse on the engine. So if there is no power on that red wire, there that fuse is blown or there is some kind o wiring issue. Let me know what you find.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Ok Jason
I Checked the fuse - it tested OK
I also checked for voltage at the engine Red fuse wire to ground & found 12.7 VDC
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Could this be a break in the wire harness to the helm station?
I recall you helped me in the past troubleshooting the trim/tilt control & I had to run a new wire
From helm to engine

That's certainly what it sounds like. Power from the key switch comes from that fuse. So if you have 12V at the fuse, but nothing at the key switch, the only thing that connects the two is the wire that runs between them. There is a harness that runs from the outboard up to the console where the key switch and controls are. This wire is part of that harness. The most likely issue is a screw or something has rubbed through this harness causing a break in the wiring. The fix here would be to order a replacement harness, or just run a new wire up from that fuse to the key switch, and that will get you power back to the switch as well.

I think that should do it. But I work for tips so I do want to make sure you are happy with my service before you go. If you had a further or more specific question on the issue by all means feel free to ask. If not, Just in case you do not understand the way the website works (and some folks do not). You do have to put forth a positive rating in order for it to credit me for helping you. When ratings are not done, the website simply keeps your deposit and they will not credit me. The ratings box is located at the top of the screen. To rate, you must select the star you wish and also confirm it. Please let me know if you run into any problems or errors when trying to do it. If you do have a problem, or if you can not see the ratings box which is at the top of the screen. Please reply back "I rate Jason's service _______" and fill in the blank.

Questions do not close out, so if you have to come back later on with follow up questions to the issue you still can even after doing a rating.

Thank you
Jason

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
JasonCan you get a Part Number for the Harness - the boat is 20'

I'm sorry that's one thing I can not do. I'm a mechanic, parts is a different department. Boat rigging (which is all of the cables and harness's) is all handled by the boat builder. Parts can look this stuff up but even they have a hard time with it sometimes. Just call any dealer, they would be able to look up the correct part numbers for you.

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Was there anything else?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
OK Jason
Once again you helped me to solve the problem.
I pulled the harness only to find out that all 10 wires were completely chewed through it must have been a water rodent, as this happened last year while on the lake. I can send pics if you like
Local marina where I bought the replacement harness said it is quite common around here (Greenwood Lake NJ)
I'm back up and running.
I'll probably open a new ticket for carb adjust & timing adjust - she is running a bit jumpyJason - Thanks again for your persistence & patience
You really know your craft!!

You are very welcome and I was glad I could help. Please keep in mind that thanking does not pay me, only putting through a rating for my help is what pays me. (The website did charge you the full amount that you offered to speak with me but they will not pay me unless a rating is selected) The ratings box is located at the top of your screen, if you do not see it you might have to scroll up. If you still can not see it, or have a hard time when trying to select a rating for my help, please let me know and I will alert the moderators.
Thanks again and good luck!
Jason

Jason
Jason, Marine Mechanic
Category: Marine Electronics
Satisfied Customers: 16,288
Experience: Degree in Marine Technology, Also Certified with Mercury Marine, MCM, MIE, VP, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki
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Category: Marine Electronics
Satisfied Customers: 16,288
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Experience: Degree in Marine Technology, Also Certified with Mercury Marine, MCM, MIE, VP, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki

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