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Hard start rough idle till it stalls. Good fuel flow, good…

Customer Question
Hard start rough idle...

Hard start rough idle till it stalls. Good fuel flow, good plugs, good maf, new engine temp sensor, new plugs, cleaned idle control valve, tps measures .25 vdc throttle closed graduated to 4.7vdc wide open throttle. New vacuum lines, new intake ducts, new filter

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you certain it's the fuel pressure sensor that's in need of attention? What about the fuel rail? Have you checked it yet?

Flushed injectors, replaced fuel pressure regulator

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the model/year of your Kia?

2005 Kia Sedona 3.5

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Sedona yourself? What have you tried so far?

^ read above

Submitted: 6 months ago.Category: Kia
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Answered in 17 hours by:
12/9/2017
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago
Chris (aka- Moose)
Chris (aka- Moose), Technician
Category: Kia
Satisfied Customers: 52,153
Experience: 16 years of experience
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Is it hard to start with the engine cold or hot or both?

Can you prevent the stall with throttle applied?

No codes stored?

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Thank you for the reply.
Engine is hard to start cold or hot. (Typically takes 2/3 turns of the key @2-3 seconds) Yes I can prevent stalling most of the time with the throttle applied. I can hold engine speed steady from 2k-rpm and up for extended periods of time. No codes. Today was the first time it was started in 2 days. After starting I held rpms around 2500 for about 30 seconds. Let sit to Idle. Idled for about 3 minutes at 800 rpm with no issues. Shut off then restart and just left at idle speed. Would not idle at all after temporally going to 1500rpm soon dropping to about 300-then surging to 700-drop to - 300-surge to 700 etc, until it finally stalled out.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Adjust the throttle stop screw so it will idle at operating temp at 500 rpms with the IAC unplugged. Then reconnect the IAC valve. If this does not resolve the concern then I would replace the IAC with the negative battery cable off.

Now that I have posted a partial or complete answer, you will see you can rate me. The deposit you have already paid is not transferred to me until you rate me. I would like to receive nothing less than 5-star excellent ratings. So if we are not there yet, please reply and let me help more. If you're not pleased, let me know because rating bad does not result in a refund, there are better options. Rating now will not close this post nor prevent replying. Thanks Chris

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I will do this when I get home today and update you. It might help to mention the van originally broke down while it was driving and was about 30 miles from home. It acted like it had no power, would not respond to acceleration and eventually stalled after it was slowed to a stop. Since then this is the issue I have had.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Thanks for the update

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Unplugged idle control valve, started van rpms raced to near 2000, it held for a second at 2000 rpm then immediately stalled. Started several times with the same effect. Pushing the throttle had no effect on it and would immediately stall. Plugged idle control valve in, started van rpms went to about 2000 then immediately to 1000 slowly down to 700rpms then original symptoms returned while it was idling. 700rpm-300-700-300-700 .... stall.
Idle control valve coils were tested, 40ohm-40ohm-80-ohm. Tested idle control valve with ignition key turned to position 2- plunger retracts for 1 second then extends to back to home position. Unless the plunger head is not making a good seal or the bypass port is dirty I would think the idle control valve is ok.Note: I ordered a crankshaft position sensor this morning and will be here Thursday. What are your thoughts on that? Have you ever seen a faulty crank sensor with no code? Thanks again
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Yes I have seen a faulty CKP w/o a code stored though I just can not see that to blame here.

IAC unplugged it should not have revved up, that may indicate the throttle blade is sticking open or there is a vacuum leak.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Throttle plate seems to close good without any hesitation. It did have some "typical" grime for its age that was cleaned. All hoses are new within a year. Intake duct is new, intake boot is new, filter box is original. I can have the throttle held slightly to keep the car running and spray carb cleaner (and starter fluid when it's not been running long) directly on hoses,fittings,connections, with absolutely 0 effect. I have yet to remove the entire throttle body but I can tomorrow and look over the entire housing
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

IAC unplugged can you feather the throttle by hand, if another starts it, to get it to remain idling?

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
No, it seems like it "Boggs" down almost immediately. I attempted to feather the throttle, attempted to "wide-open then close" etc. nothing seemed to keep it running.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
My first attempt to start it all day was with it unplugged. Not sure if warming it up for a minute or 2 would produce a better result.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Do attempt at operating temp. If it still stalls then adjust the throttle stop screw in a little more to try and get it to maintain 500 rpm.

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Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Hello, Chris here again,

I am checking in to make sure you got everything you expected from my answer. The option to rate my response or reply is still available. I want to make sure you were pleased with what you paid for.

Thanks Chris

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
far all your answers have focused on the iac valve. All of which have been tested. But we come back to that. Now, when I get home I will let the engine get to temperature before unhooking then trying to set rpm at 500 then reconnecting. My concern is the van was driving about 35-40mph when it broke down. Is the iac contributing anything to the engine (besides being closed) when driving at speed? Maybe there is more to the IAC then I'm seeing but I will attempt this test when I get home. If no difference I plan to remove the throttle body, give it a once over then reinstall.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

The IAC is only used at no throttle applied scenarios. You can only test the IAC at rest, not when it is being used and at this time it appears the IAC is regulating up and down to much do to the base idle incorrect, the IAC bad, IAC wiring, or computer issue.

I see no mention of an issue at 35-40 mph.

Hard start rough idle till it stalls. Good fuel flow, good plugs, good maf, new engine temp sensor, new plugs, cleaned idle control valve, tps measures .25 vdc throttle closed graduated to 4.7vdc wide open throttle. New vacuum lines, new intake ducts, new filter

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you certain it's the fuel pressure sensor that's in need of attention? What about the fuel rail? Have you checked it yet?

Flushed injectors, replaced fuel pressure regulator

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the model/year of your Kia?

2005 Kia Sedona 3.5

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Sedona yourself? What have you tried so far?

^ read above

Ask Your Own Kia Question
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Second message I wrote "van originally broke down while driving and about 30 miles from home" (included both the fact that it was driving and a good distance from home so the engine was warm)
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
The original break down was while it was driving. Acted like it had no acceleration power, eventually slowed to a stop till it idled irratically then stalled.. (also noted above)
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

So do you want to forget diagnosing the idle concerns and get into diagnosing why it stalls while driving?

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
The van stalled while driving and has not been driven since it was towed home. Saying it "stalls while driving" one would assume it's able to start and drive. It will start but not stay running long unless it's forced to stay running with the throttle.
So to recap: Van died....-towed home....-will start and idles terrible until it stalls out. Will stay running with throttle applied. Shift into gear without holding throttle will idle rough and die
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

We must address this will start and idles terrible until it stalls out before going onto driving concerns. If there are no vacuum leaks, air fuel ratio is correct, plugs are all firing, compression is fine, injectors are all working, fuel pressure is fine. Then the focus for now needs to remain on getting it to idle smooth and not stall.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I agree.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Keep in touch as needed

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Out of curiosity I removed the timing cover. I attatched a photo of sensor currently on it. After touching it a few corners chipped off. I ordered a new crank sensor Monday that will arrive tomorrow. So I will change it before I do any further troubleshooting and keep you posted.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Thats pretty brittle

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Replaced idle air control valve with new. Same song and dance.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

Was the battery disconnected while it was replaced?

Did you get the idle stop screw adjusted to 500 rpm?

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Battery was removed completely. Put on charge for a day. New iac arrived then installed. Battery put back in. It's impossible to to adjust it when it idles over the place. However..... if I adjust the tps sensor putting the plug end Down (standing at front bumper looking at tps in the back of throttle body the right side is pushed down in the slots) it seems to idle fairly well until the throttle is pushed then it Boggs down. So.. no throttle idles good, throttle Boggs down. . If I lift up on the plug end it idles high-low-high-low till it stalls. Dead center does the same thing.
Kia Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 6 months ago

I am just not seeing us making any progress. I will opt out so another if they want, can take over and may be able to help you get this resolved.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I agree thanks
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