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It's a wrangler 2005 automatic, The transmission downshifts

Hi, it's a wrangler 2005...
Hi, it's a wrangler 2005 automatic
JA: Are you fixing your Wrangler yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: The transmission downshifts in the wrong time, it looks like it sends a signal to O/D
JA: When was your transmission fluid last checked?
Customer: I just changed the fluid and filter thinking they were the problem!
JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?
Customer: No
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Answered in 7 minutes by:
8/28/2017
Gunvir Singh
Category: Jeep
Satisfied Customers: 1,756
Experience: Master Tech at Kennesaw Auto Tech
Verified

Hello, let me review your request. Please stand by.

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Do you have the check engine light on?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
No
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I checked for error code and got P0218 (tranny over heat)

Does the downshift occur in all gears or any geat?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
But I didn't check for error codes again after fluid change
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
My feeling (and the small difference in RPM) suggests that it inly downshift from 4th to 3rd and while doing that it operates the O/D off button so the light comes up and sometimes it goes off by itself and sometimes it doesn't respond when i try to turn off myself
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I disconnected this switch but the problem persisted

Is your vehicle 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
It's 4L 6cyl

Sorry about the wait. The code p0218 can cause the transmission to downshift. If the transmission overheat code is present the ECM will command the transmission to downshift. Did you notice the old transmission fluid burnt ot any metal particles present?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I wasn't present by that time but mechanic confirmed it smelled little burned
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
No metal particulars, mind you the jeep has extremely low mileage and in superb condition

Ok, need to start by checking the transmission cooler for been plugged. If good, then next step is to check the PCM and pcm software due for upgrade.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Cooler is good, checked
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Was thinking it might be the relay in the fuse block

A faulty relay cannot lead to this code.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I see

The possible causes for tranmission overtemp on this vehicle are transmission cooler plugged, engine cooling system not working under speciifations or fault in the electronics. since the cooler is not plugged, mneed to make sure the coolant is fine and cooling system is working under specifications.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
But the engine never got overheat, could that be the portion of the cooler dedicated to the trans?

No, just the cooling system. The cooler should be good as long as it is not plugged.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Confirming, it's not plugged
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
How to check PCM? You said it should be the next item!

Since everthing is good next step will be check the ECM for proper operation. A faulty sugnal from the ECM can command the transmission to act up.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
How do i go about it?

You will need a compatible scan tool to check that.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
The same guy who scanned the code p0218 for me got a decent scanner, but I ran away from him because he said you'll need a transmission overhauling and started talking about $$$
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I was so naive, i though the fault could be purely electrical and i started trouble shooting by pulling off the O/D off rocker

I doubt the transmission needs to be overhauled specially since this code is present and no metal shavings were found. There is more chance of a PCM need to be replaced or programmed.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
A workshop promised they can flash and reprogram PCM for a $100 shall I try?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I was planning to change the relay first but you're saying no need!
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Many Jeep forum users faced the same problem, as I read, but few got it solved and documented. Also they usually get P0218 plus something else so the direction they go to fix it is different from mine. The closest case to mind (also involving the OD off acting funny) was solved by relay replacement
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Also the other users got oversized tires and almost no one kept original gear ratios, for me everything is stock and never went upsize
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I rarely go off road

Sorry about the wait. As long as the shop is able to update the software properly the price is vewry good. It is cheaper than the dealer.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I really can't tell if he programs well or got the right equipment - you're saying the dealership is a better option? But they have their own way of diagnosing and I believe they'll want me to pay for the whole 9 yards
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
From your experience, you say the fluid and filter change should have solved the problem??

With the symptom you are experiencing and the code present, the fluid and filter is not the issue.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
But they were step 1 in the sequence!?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Step 2 is PCM program and if nothing changed go for overhaul?

It is always a good start but since the code was present for over temp that was the issue.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Low level of fluid could have caused the overheat!

Yes.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
But mind you, I didn't check again for error code after changing the fluid and filter - perhaps the code disappeared!
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
May be the problem was two folds and we got one of them fixed and faced only with the downshift issue, I also didn't hook back the OD off switch, so i don't have a visual proof that the gear downshifts
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Strange thing is that i didn't have a dashboard indicator saying trans overheat (other jeep owners report that they get it on 05 TJ)
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
They also confirm that the downshift is a failsafe mechanism (limpo mode?)

Before further check i will recommend to put it back together and make sure the fluid level is good. Diconnect the battery terminals and connect them together for 10 minutes to do a hard reset.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Is that procedure a tipm reset?

No, it will clear the keep alive memory.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Okay will try it. Thank you. Anything else you want to me please?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Can we keep this consultation open until Wednesday? Because i'm out of town and will do what you advised when I'm back tomorrow.

You're welcome and good luck with your vehicle, And please don’t forget to rate my performance in the upper left corner otherwise i don’t get compensated. Thank you and have a blessed day.

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No problem. I will leave the request open.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Thank you, ***** ***** I can give you good news that the issue was resolved - will revert
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
The rate link seems to be moved to under the conversation screen, there is nothing in the top left corner (just fyi) :)

Try now. It is the one with the stars.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
But now, on Wednesday we conclude this, you said it's okay

Ok.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Hi, i phoned the workshop, he said i cam flash the pcm but as i cannot connect my scanner to online source i probably can't update the pcm program - would that effort be useless in this case??

Online connection will be needed to get the latest software upgrade. At this point dealer will be the best option.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Okay thanks

You're welcome.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Found this on a forum, is it what you want me to do, or this is another type of reset that I don't need?:"[l]Disconnect the POSITIVE battery Terminal and touch it to ground for 30 seconds. (This is to discharge the PCM capacitors, which maintain the Adaptive Memory.
Reconnect the Battery Cable
Turn Ignition Switch to the “On” position but DO NOT start the engine
Turn Headlight “On”
Turn Headlights “Off”
Turn Ignition Key “Off”[l]
Adaptive memory has now been flashed, or erased from the PCM"

This procedure should be fine too.

Gunvir Singh
Category: Jeep
Satisfied Customers: 1,756
Experience: Master Tech at Kennesaw Auto Tech
Verified
Gunvir Singh and 87 other Jeep Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Hi, drove about 10 miles without issues, just wanted to update you. Will keep you posted if I notice anything strange!
Thanks.

Thanks for the update.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Unfortunately it did come back

Did you check the code?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Not yet, but since the problem is still there I thought the code is less relevant - I'll check it tomorrow morning
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I just switched the transmission relay in the fuse box with the rear window wiper relay, I read somewhere that it's worth a try
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I phoned the mechanic again today and he can swear there were no metal particles when he drained the ATF
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
A friend blamed me for not changing the sensor inside the transmission when we opened to change the ATF, but the mechanic confirmed there is no sensor to change there! I got confused!

Keep me posted when you find the code. That will help to narrow it down.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Are you expecting a P0218 again or something else?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Can you confirm if there is a sensor that's approachable without opening the whole case
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Hi again, just noticed something that might help you in diagnosing: the downshift (and O/F off lights on) was triggered twice today when hitting a speed pump!! Could it be a moving item or electrical short rather than electrical fault?? I re-connected the o/d off switch so I can shift back to fourth when the car downshift (and sometimes it doesn't respond)!

If any electrical short or missing sensor signal was present it would have given another code.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Just connected the scanner and found P0218 again! That's in addition to another code under different category: serial link external failure!
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Mechanic says this other code is negligible.. however, he reconfirmed that PCM reprogram or even replaceme t will will not change a thing and it's all waste of my money. He said go for an overhaul for the transmission, will take about 4 days and $1,200 and you go back to enjoying your car. Please advise. Thank you

I will recommend having it checked by the dealer, the codes you are experiencing are not for a mechanical fault in the transmission assembly.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Thanks, isn't there anything you can remember or can search in the repair manual to avoid going to dealer?

Everything else has already been checked with the code that is present. A compatible scan tool will be needed to pinpoint the issue when it occurs. Dealer has access to a the original tools provided by manufacture.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Okay, will try. Thank you..
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Hi again,I'm still suffering from the same problem but I noticed something and wanted to consult you: the issue never happens if I drive over 70 mph, the transmission just stays relaxed on 4th speed and doesn't downshift - perhaps it has to do with air flow increased through radiator with speed, or 2nd fan only works with high speed?!

Increased air flow helping the transmission can mean a cooling system issue. But you have already comfirmed that the cooler is clean and lines are not pluged.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I took it to a radiator specialist today to reconfirm, he just phoned me back saying the cooling system is not blocked, however, he said he'll install an auxiliary transmission cooler and it won't cost much, it might solve the problem, but if it didn't then I'll have to open transmission and check the sensors inside. I'm doing all that because my appointment with dealer end of next week so I'm troubleshooting on the hope that I solve it before I go there (or not go if no need).

Aux transmission sounds like a good idea specially since the code shows up for overtemp.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Yesterday i got stock in traffic and it was extremely hot and humid, I got "check engine light" up, I scanned again this morning and got several codes:
1. P0218 as before
2. "Transmission temperature sensor intermittent"
and
3. P2098: post catalyst fuel trim sys too lean Bank2
I asked the guy to reset it and the check engine light went away.

Code P2098 could be due to a weak catalytic converter or faulty O2 sensor. But will not give you the symptoms you are experiencing.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Aux cooler didn't solve any problem! Unfortunately! I'm going after the sensors.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Hi, they started on the work to reach the sensors but found out the A.T.F is totally burned (the new one that we just put a week ago) so decided to go for transmission rebuild and gave me a quote that I accepted. Have you got any advice for us at this stage?? Thank you

If the complete rebuild is been done there is not much advice to give other than make sure the cooler lines are flushed again since new fluid was burnt and make sure the updates TCM software is used.

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Gunvir Singh
Gunvir Singh
Gunvir Singh
Category: Jeep
Satisfied Customers: 1,756
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Experience: Master Tech at Kennesaw Auto Tech

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