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HAVE A 3516B CAT GENERATOR, THE GENERATOR SHUTDOWN AND THE…

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HEY I HAVE A...

HEY I HAVE A 3516B CAT GENERATOR, THE GENERATOR SHUTDOWN AND THE FAULT CODE READ THROTTLE POSITION SIGNAL OR SENSOR. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? THE GENERATOR WILL START BACK UP IF I CRANK IT, JUST SHUT DOWN AFTER COUPLE OF HOURS

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the complete model and serial number of your machine?

Serial number is *****

Submitted: 5 months ago.Category: Industrial Equipment
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Answered in 32 minutes by:
1/16/2018
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 5 months ago
catmastertech
catmastertech, Technician
Category: Industrial Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 2,523
Experience: 19 years service repairs on CAT equipment.
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Here is the information related to that code.

MID 036 - CID 0091 - FMI 08 Throttle Position signal abnormal

Conditions Which Generate This Code:

The engine's Electronic Control Module (ECM) detected an abnormal throttle signal.

System Response:

The throttle position is set to a default value of 0 percent (low idle) by the ECM. The code is logged.

Test Step 1.

Determine if the "Direct Fuel Control Mode" is ON or OFF. View the configuration screen in order to find the status of the "Direct Fuel Control Mode".

Expected Result:

The "Direct Fuel Control Mode" is ON.

Results:

OK - The "Direct Fuel Control Mode" is ON.

Repair: Perform the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Direct Fuel Control Mode".

STOP

Not OK - The "Direct Fuel Control Mode" is OFF.

Repair: Perform the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Speed Control".

STOP

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Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 5 months ago

Here are the details of the troubleshooting.

Direct Fuel Control Mode

System Operation Description:

Perform this procedure if the "Direct Fuel Control Mode" is "ON" and a 91-08 Throttle Position Signal Abnormal diagnostic code is active.

The direct fuel control mode enables the engine to be controlled by an external governor. You must install the components of the signal converter for the direct fuel control in order to operate in direct fuel control mode. The configuration parameter must be programmed to "ON" in order for the Electronic Control Module (ECM) to respond properly to the external governor.

The input to the signal converter is a 0 to 200 mA signal. The signal is received from the external governor. The output signal from the signal converter is a Pulse Width Modulated signal (PWM).

The output signal varies with the current to the signal converter. The ECM calculates the desired fuel from the PWM signal.

The duty cycle for a valid signal is between 5 and 95 percent. If an invalid signal is received, the engine will automatically be set to a minimum fuel setting and the engine will shut down.

The following functions are not used in direct fuel control mode.

  • Low idle

     

  • Crank terminate speed

     

  • Cooldown speed

Test Step 1. Check for Connector Damage

  1. Turn the Engine Control Switch (ECS) to the OFF/RESET position.

     

  2. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the OFF position.

     

  3. Thoroughly inspect the ECM connectors J1/P1 and J2/P2. Inspect all of the other connectors. Refer to the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Inspecting Electrical Connectors" for details.

     

  4. Perform a 45 N (10 lb) pull test on each of the wires in the ECM connector that are associated with the circuit.

     

  5. Check the allen head screw on each ECM connector for the proper torque. Refer to Troubleshooting, "Inspecting Electrical Connectors" for the correct torque values.

     

  6. Check the harness and the wiring for abrasion and for pinch points.

Expected Result:

All connectors, pins, and sockets are completely coupled and/or inserted. The harness and wiring are free of corrosion, of abrasion, and of pinch points.

Results:

  • OK - The connectors and wiring are OK. Proceed to Test Step 2.

     

  • Not OK - The connectors and/or wiring are not OK.

    Repair: Repair the connectors or wiring and/or replace the connectors or wiring.

    STOP

Test Step 2. Check the Current Input to the Signal Converter

  1. Measure the current to the signal converter.

    Note: Some external governors may only be able to output approximately 150 mA. This should not be seen as a problem with the external governor.

Expected Result:

The current range is between 0 and 200 mA.

Results:

  • OK - The current is within the correct range. Proceed to Test Step 3.

     

  • Not OK - The current is not within the correct range.

    Repair: Replace the external governor that is supplying the controlling current.

    STOP

Test Step 3. Check the Voltage at the Battery

  1. Turn the circuit breaker for the battery to the OFF position.

     

  2. Turn the ECS to the OFF/RESET position.

     

  3. Measure no-load battery voltage at the battery terminals. Refer to Testing and Adjusting, "Test Tools for the Electrical System" for the proper procedures to check the batteries.

     

  4. Load test the batteries. Use the 4C-4911 Battery Load Tester. Refer to the Operating Manual, SEHS9249. Refer to Special Instruction, SEHS7633.

Expected Result:

The voltage is 24 ± 3 VDC.

Results:

  • OK - The voltage measures 24 ± 3 VDC. Proceed to Test Step 4.

     

  • Not OK - The voltage is not 24 ± 3 VDC.

    Repair: The batteries or the alternator are causing the problem. Recharge the batteries or replace the batteries. Verify that the original condition is resolved. Refer to Testing and Adjusting, "Electrical System".

    STOP

Test Step 4. Check the Voltage at the Signal Converter

  1. Connect one probe of the voltmeter to the +Battery terminal at the signal converter.

     

  2. Connect one probe of the voltmeter to the −Battery terminal at the signal converter.

Expected Result:

The voltage is 24 ± 3 VDC.

Results:

  • OK - The voltage is 24 ± 3 VDC. Proceed to Test Step 5.

     

  • Not OK - The voltage is not 24 ± 3 VDC.

    Repair: Check the wiring and/or the connectors that are between the battery and the signal converter. Repair the wiring and/or connectors.

    STOP

Test Step 5. Check the Fuel Position

  1. Connect the Caterpillar Electronic Technician (ET) to the service tool connector. Start Cat ET.

     

  2. Turn the ECS to the STOP position.

     

  3. Observe the throttle position reading on Cat ET.

     

  4. Vary the current to the signal converter.

Expected Result:

The throttle position on Cat ET varies from 5 percent to 85 percent as the current input is adjusted from 0 mA to 200 mA.

Results:

  • OK - The throttle position on Cat ET corresponds with the current input.

    Repair: Check the system for any diagnostic codes.

    STOP

  • Not OK - The throttle position does not correspond to the current input. Proceed to Test Step 6.

Test Step 6. Check the Signal from the Signal Converter

  1. Remove the signal wire from the signal converter.

     

  2. Set the multimeter to "VDC".

     

  3. Press the "Hz" button twice so that the "%" symbol is displayed.

     

  4. Place one probe on the signal wire of the signal converter.

     

  5. Place the other probe on the −Battery terminal of the signal converter.

     

  6. Monitor the output of the percent duty cycle from the signal converter.

     

  7. Adjust the current input from a low current setting to a high current setting.

    Note: The throttle position on Cat ET will not match the percent duty cycle on the multimeter.

Expected Result:

The duty cycle is between 3 and 5 percent at the low setting and above 85 percent at the high setting.

Results:

  • OK - The correct signal is being supplied. Proceed to Test Step 7.

     

  • Not OK - The duty cycle is not correct on the multimeter.

    Repair: Temporarily install another signal converter. Verify that the problem is no longer present. Reinstall the old signal converter. If the problem returns, replace the signal converter.

    STOP

Test Step 7. Check the Signal at the ECM

  1. Turn the ECS to the STOP position.

     

  2. Replace the signal wire on the signal converter.

     

  3. Set the multimeter to "VDC".

     

  4. Press the "Hz" button twice so that the "%" symbol is displayed.

     

  5. Measure the voltage between the signal wire at ECM connector P1-10 and the digital reference at ECM connector P1-05.

     

  6. Monitor the output of the percent duty cycle on the multimeter.

     

  7. Monitor the percent throttle position on Cat ET.

     

  8. Vary the input current to the signal converter.

Expected Result:

The duty cycle is between 3 and 5 percent at the low setting and above 85 percent at the high setting. The percent throttle position is between 5 and 85 percent.

Results:

  • OK - The duty cycle and the throttle position are correct.

    Repair: Check the system for any diagnostic codes.

    STOP

  • Not OK-Duty Cycle - The duty cycle is not correct.

    Repair: There is a problem in the wiring between the signal wire at ECM connector P1-10 and the signal converter.

    STOP

  • Not OK-Throttle Position - The duty cycle is OK. The throttle position is incorrect.

    Repair: Replace the ECM. Refer to the diagnostic procedure Troubleshooting, "Replacing the ECM".

    STOP

Ask Your Own Industrial Equipment Question
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 5 months ago

If you need to troubleshoot the speed control, follow these steps.

Speed Control

System Operation Description:

The speed control provides a throttle signal and a droop signal to the engine's Electronic Control Module (ECM). The output for rated speed is a pulse width modulated signal (PWM) at a constant frequency. The speed signal varies with the position of the speed adjust potentiometer. The output for droop is a PWM signal at a constant frequency. The droop signal varies with the position of the droop adjust potentiometer. The output signal is referred to as a duty cycle or as a PWM signal. The output signal is expressed as a percentage between 0 and 100 percent for the speed adjust and a percentage between 0 and 10 percent for the droop adjust.

The ECM calculates the desired engine rpm from the rated speed signal and the droop signal. The rated speed signal is valid when the duty cycle is in the range of 5 to 95 percent. If the ECM determines that the rated speed signal is invalid, the engine rpm will be set to the programmed low idle.

Note: Desired speed can be adjusted from 1369 to 1945 rpm for a 60 Hz system and from 1141 to 1621 rpm for a 50 Hz system.

The droop signal is valid when the duty cycle is in the range of 15 to 85 percent. If the ECM determines that the droop signal is invalid, the engine will run with no droop which is referred to as an isochronous mode.

Some applications may choose not to use the speed control. Some applications may use a load sharing module. The load sharing module is configured to provide the engine control with a rated speed signal. The signal has the same characteristics as the above defined signal. Some of these load sharing modules cannot provide a signal until the engine is running. In these cases, perform troubleshooting while the engine is running.

Test Step 1. Inspect Electrical Connectors and Wiring

  1. Place the engine control in the OFF/RESET mode.

     

  2. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the OFF position.

     

  3. Thoroughly inspect the ECM connectors J1/P1 and J2/P2. Inspect all of the other connectors. Refer to the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Inspecting Electrical Connectors" for details.

     

  4. Perform a 45 N (10 lb) pull test on each of the wires in the ECM connector that are associated with the circuit.

     

  5. Check the ECM connector (allen head screw) for the proper torque. Refer to the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Inspecting Electrical Connectors" for details.

     

  6. Check the customer connector (allen head screw) for the proper torque. Refer to the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Inspecting Electrical Connectors" for details.

     

  7. Check the harness and the wiring for abrasion and for pinch points.

Expected Result:

All connectors, pins, and sockets are completely coupled and/or inserted, and the harness and wiring are free of corrosion, of abrasion and of pinch points.

Results:

  • OK - The connectors and wiring are OK. Proceed to Test Step 2.

     

  • Not OK - The connectors and/or wiring are not OK.

    Repair: Repair the connectors or wiring and/or replace the connectors or wiring.

    STOP

Test Step 2. Check the Supply Voltage to the Speed Control

  1. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the ON position.

     

  2. Place the engine control in the STOP mode.

     

  3. Connect one probe of a voltmeter to the +Battery terminal of the speed control. Connect one probe of the voltmeter to the −Battery terminal of the speed control.

Expected Result:

The voltage is 24 ± 3 VDC.

Results:

  • OK - The voltage is 24 ± 3 VDC. The voltage supply to the speed control is correct. Proceed to Test Step 3.

     

  • Not OK - The voltage is not 24 ± 3 VDC.

    Repair: Check wire 998-BK(Black) for continuity to the ECM connector P1-66. Check the wires for continuity to the "relay breaker". Check the breakers.

    STOP

Test Step 3. Determine the Component that has Failed

  1. Determine if the problem is with the input for the throttle or the droop.

     

  2. Place the engine control in the STOP mode. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the ON position.

     

  3. Observe the position of the throttle on the Caterpillar Electronic Technician (ET) as you turn the speed adjust potentiometer.

     

  4. Observe the droop on Cat ET as you turn the droop adjust potentiometer.

Expected Result:

The throttle position on Cat ET varies with the turning of the speed adjust potentiometer. The droop on Cat ET varies with the turning of the droop adjust potentiometer.

Results:

  • RATED SPEED - The throttle position on Cat ET does not vary with the turning of the speed adjust potentiometer. Proceed to Test Step 4.

     

  • DROOP SPEED - The droop on Cat ET does not vary with the turning of the droop adjust potentiometer. Proceed to Test Step 5.

     

  • Unsure - The problem is not apparent. Proceed to Test Step 4.

Test Step 4. Check the Throttle Position

  1. Place the engine control in the STOP mode. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the ON position.

     

  2. Observe the position of the throttle on Cat ET.

     

  3. Turn the speed adjust potentiometer to the lowest setting.

    • 60 Hz equals 1369 rpm.

       

    • 50 Hz equals 1141 rpm.

     

  4. Start at the low idle position. Slowly turn the speed adjust potentiometer in the other direction. Monitor the position of the throttle on Cat ET.

Expected Result:

The throttle position on Cat ET reads 0 percent at the lowest setting and 0 to 100 percent as the speed adjust potentiometer is adjusted.

Results:

  • OK - The speed control is operating correctly.

    Repair: The problem may be intermittent. If the problem is intermittent, perform the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Inspecting Electrical Connectors".

    STOP

  • Not OK - The throttle position on Cat ET does not vary as the speed adjust potentiometer is adjusted. Proceed to Test Step 6.

Test Step 5. Check the Droop Signal on Cat ET

  1. Place the engine control in the STOP mode. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the ON position.

     

  2. Observe the droop on Cat ET.

     

  3. Turn the droop adjust potentiometer in a counterclockwise direction.

     

  4. Slowly turn the droop adjust potentiometer in a clockwise direction. Monitor the droop on Cat ET.

    Note: Do not overturn the droop adjust potentiometer in the clockwise direction. The signal will become erratic.

Expected Result:

The droop on Cat ET reads 0 percent at the lowest setting and 0 to 10 percent as the droop adjust potentiometer is adjusted.

Results:

  • OK - The droop is operating correctly.

    Repair: The problem may be intermittent. If the problem is intermittent, perform the diagnostic functional test Troubleshooting, "Inspecting Electrical Connectors".

    STOP

  • Not OK - The droop on Cat ET does not vary as the droop adjust potentiometer is adjusted. Proceed to Test Step 7.

Test Step 6. Check the Speed Control

  1. Remove the wire from the S terminal at the speed control.

     

  2. Set the multimeter to "VDC". Press the "Hz" button twice in order to display the "%" symbol.

     

  3. Place one probe of the multimeter on the S terminal of the speed control. Place the other probe on the −Battery terminal of the speed control.

     

  4. Monitor the output of the percent duty cycle from the speed control on the multimeter. Turn the speed adjust potentiometer from the low setting to the high setting.

    Note: The throttle position on Cat ET will not match the percent duty cycle on the multimeter.

Expected Result:

The duty cycle is between 4 and 10 percent at the low setting and between 90 and 95 percent at the high setting.

Results:

  • OK - The speed control is supplying the correct duty cycle. Proceed to Test Step 8.

     

  • Not OK - The duty cycle is not correct on the multimeter.

    Repair: Temporarily install another speed control. Verify that the problem is no longer present. Reinstall the old speed control. If the problem returns, replace the speed control.

    STOP

Test Step 7. Check the Droop Signal at the Speed Control

  1. Remove the wire from the D terminal of the speed control.

     

  2. Set the multimeter to "VDC". Press the "Hz" button twice in order to display the "%" symbol.

     

  3. Place one probe of the multimeter on the D terminal of the speed control. Place the other probe on the −Battery terminal of the speed control.

     

  4. Monitor the output of the percent duty cycle from the speed control on the multimeter. Turn the droop adjust potentiometer from the low setting to the high setting.

    Note: The droop on Cat ET will not match the percent duty cycle on the multimeter.

Expected Result:

The duty cycle is between 15 and 85 percent. This range should be attainable.

Results:

  • OK - The speed control is providing the correct droop signal. Proceed to Test Step 9.

     

  • Not OK - The problem appears to be in the speed control.

    Repair: Temporarily install another speed control. Verify that the problem is no longer present. Reinstall the old speed control. If the problem returns, replace the speed control.

    STOP

Test Step 8. Check the Speed Signal at the ECM Input

  1. Place the engine control in the STOP mode. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the ON position.

     

  2. Set the multimeter to "VDC". Press the "Hz" button twice so that the "%" symbol is displayed.

     

  3. Measure the voltage between pins P1-10 and P2-66 on the ECM connectors.

     

  4. Monitor the output of the percent duty cycle from the speed control on the multimeter. Monitor the percent throttle position on Cat ET. Turn the speed adjust potentiometer from the low setting to the high setting.

Expected Result:

The duty cycle is between 4 and 10 percent at the low setting and between 90 and 95 percent at the high setting. The percent throttle position is between 0 and 100 percent for the above settings of the speed adjust potentiometer.

Results:

  • OK - The duty cycle is correct. Proceed to Test Step 5.

     

  • Not OK - The duty cycle is not correct.

    Repair: There is a problem in the wiring between P1-10 and the S terminal of the speed control. Verify that the low idle switch is functioning properly.

    STOP

  • Not OK - The duty cycle is correct but the throttle position is not correct. The ECM is not processing the correct signal.

    Repair: Replace the ECM. Refer to the diagnostic procedure Troubleshooting, "Replacing the ECM".

    STOP

Test Step 9. Check the Droop Signal at the ECM Input

  1. Place the engine control in the STOP mode. Turn the battery disconnect switch to the ON position.

     

  2. Measure the voltage between the pins P2-69 and P2-66 at the ECM connector.

     

  3. Set the multimeter to "VDC". Press the "Hz" button twice in order to display the % symbol.

     

  4. Monitor the output of the percent duty cycle of the droop signal at the speed control with the multimeter. Monitor the droop on Cat ET. Turn the droop adjust potentiometer from the low setting to the high setting.

    Note: Do not overturn the droop adjust potentiometer in the clockwise direction. The signal will become erratic.

Expected Result:

The duty cycle is between 1 and 15 percent at the clockwise setting and between 85 and 99 percent at the counterclockwise setting. The droop is between 0 and 100 percent for the above settings of the droop adjust potentiometer.

Results:

  • OK - The duty cycle is correct.

    Repair:

    STOP

  • Not OK - The duty cycle is not correct.

    Repair: There is a problem in the wiring between P2-69 and the D terminal of the speed control.

    STOP

  • Not OK - The duty cycle is correct but the droop is not correct. The ECM is not processing the correct signal.

    Repair: Replace the ECM. Refer to the diagnostic procedure Troubleshooting, "Replacing the ECM".

    STOP

Ask Your Own Industrial Equipment Question
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 5 months ago

Hello again,

Were my answers helpful?

Did you need anything else?

Ask Your Own Industrial Equipment Question
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 5 months ago

Hello again,

Where my answers helpful?

Did you need anything else?

Please return to the chat and let me know the status of this question.

Thanks,

CATMASTERTECH

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I have an old jlg 60h I have problems starting it. I have to turn it over with short bursts. After it is started it runs great but even if it runs all day and I shut it off I this hard starting … read more
Curtis B.
Curtis B.
Technician
Associate Degree
770 satisfied customers
I have a Doosan pro 5. we put in a new starter but it still
I have a Doosan pro 5. we put in a new starter but it still will not start unless we jump a hot wire to the starter. it's like the solenoid is not sending fire to the starter. … read more
Dan
Dan
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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