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I'm midway through the timing belt and have a couple things

Hi George, I'm midway through...
Hi George, I'm midway through the timing belt and have a couple things to ask about.
I can't recall if the crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer nut is clockwise or counter (it's hard enough to get off without air tools, I don't need to frustrate myself by trying to do the wrong way.)
Also I'm seeing that the drive pulley on the current water pump has cut through the lower timing belt cover. What's possibly the cause of this and what can I do to avoid in my current install? This probably led to the somewhat early death of this water pump. It only made it about 65K.
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Answered in 5 hours by:
3/25/2017
George H.
George H., Hyundai Technician
Category: Hyundai
Satisfied Customers: 18,963
Experience: Hyundai Gold certified, ASE Master tech 15+ years
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The bolt has normal right hand threads. If the pump pulley bearings fail it can walk enough to wear the cover, 65K is early but if the coolant was not changed out every 3 years that could be the cause. New belt and new pump should be all you need. You are replacing the tensioner and idler pulley?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
possibly the pump failed, which caused the pulley to extend out further. The lower belt cover has a nice crescent cut into it from pulley and some of the plastic is gooey from the friction and coolant. Is it fine clear up and true up the fringe edges on the lower cover and just reuse it or is the cover important enough that it needs to be replaced? I was thinking the possibly my install was bad last time and somehow I torqued things down too much and put the cover in contact with the pulley.I bought this kit again, I think it has everything but he tensioner. At 13 years old, time for the tensioner as well?
I bought a new crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer from Oreilly too just in case it's advisable to swap that out also.

You can just put some RTV on the outside of thew cover and reuse it. You should replace the tensioner, I did my mom's Sonata when it had 25000 on it because it was 10 years old and the tensioner was seeping. Not worth taking a chance that it fails and the valves contact the pistons.

If you think you pulled the cover into the pulley then keep that in mind this time. There is not much clearance and I often see the cover worn.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I suppose you can't really tell by looking at the tensioner if it's fine or prone to failing. One from Oreilly will work?
The crescent cut in the lower cover is the same shape as the water belt pulley, you're saying I should clean the lower cover and smear some RTV on it to hopefully bridge that gap in the material?
I don't think I over torqued the bolts for the lower and upper cover, how to not bring the cover to close to the belt and pulley?

Sure O'Riley would be fine. You can see if it is seeping and know it needs to be replaced but you can't tell if will last 60,000 miles so best to replace. I have seen a lot of them seeping over the years so I just plan on replacing all of them now.

The cover should clear, the built in standoffs will keep it just clear and should prevent overtorquing. It can be a belt flopping a little that cuts the cover, in any case just seal up the cut from the outside and you can reuse the cover It is just a thin cut right?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Here are some pics, looks like friction ocurring on the face of the water pump pulley, but the cutting into the cover was occuring on the outside of the lower cover, maybe from the drive belt. I didn't closely examine the drive belt when it came off but didn't
notice anything very odd or warped about it.
So is this the kind of damage you were recommending I repair by spanning RTV over the area?
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Here are some pics, looks like friction ocurring on the face of the water pump pulley, but the cutting into the cover was occuring on the outside of the lower cover, maybe from the drive belt. I didn't closely examine the drive belt when it came off but didn't notice anything very odd or warped about it.
So is this the kind of damage you were recommending I repair by spanning RTV over the area?

Yeah, just clean it up and put some RTV in ther. put something over the inside while it sets so it is flat and not bulging inside

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Alright, I'll go get my tensioner, parts cleaner spray and RTV. Are there more than one type, a more ridgid type or resistant to friction and fluids?
What kind of set time should I plan for before reinstalling the lower cover, just a couple hours or should it cure longer?

Any RTV will work, I would get black. A couple of hours will let it set enough so it stays in place.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I see only 2 bolts holing the engine mount to the engine, they're both out but this part still seems affixed to the engine.
Does it need a blow or to be pried off?

There is another bolt under the flat top of the mount that you can't see. Feel for it

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Aw man, the alldata diagram lied to me. They only show 2 bolts.
I ran a mirror under there, I must have missed it.
Thanks.
I'll be completely tore down soon, last time I did this I had a hell of a time getting the dots on wheels and the engine to line up.
Things seem to be going better, the dots looks good. Will the left and right wheels stay on their marks or do I have to take care not to bump them off their mark. I'm excited that my marks line up this time and don't want to go through the fun I had last time if I can help it.

The left (rear as you look at it) is close to the spring point but it will stay balanced, the front one is not a problem.

Let me know how I can help

Thanks

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
No RTV silicone needed on the gasket that faces the engine right? Just between gasket and pump, I think.
I bought a new crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer, at 13 years is it good to replace even if the current one shows no issues?
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Broke one of the parts of the gasket that encircles of the upper bolts on the water pump gasket while I was trying to jam it into place. Do I need to replace or can it still work of the main line around the body of the pump is still in tact? It is physically torn now around bolt.

Correct, when the pump comes off again you want the gasket to come off with the pum. If you glue it on the next guy has to scrape it off and that kind of karma comes back to bite you. It won't leak.

Some of these balancers have come apart, since you have it install it.

As long as you have a solid line between the bolts and the inside of the pump it is OK. If it tore through the hole all the way it is a risk to hop the RTV will seep through the gasket and seal it. It will probably be OK but you won't know til you have it all back together and run it up to temperature.

How about a picture of the tear?

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You are good. Flatten it out and bolt it up, little too much RTV there, you really don't want it to squeeze out to the inside as it can tear off later and hold the thremostat open or clocg the radiator passages or the heater core but it is OK for now.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
There a stupid flexible rubber gasket that I think is just there (in the vicinity of the water pump) that is making my life miserable. If I pull it off the sheet metal that it's there to protect the water pump goes in fairly easilty, if I put the gasket back where it belongs then I can't get the pump in or I tear the the gasket trying to muscle it in there. Can I ditch this gasket or does it serve a purpose other than protesting the edge of some sheet metal?

It is probably squeezing out into the space you want. If you can cut along the seam (Razor blade) without damaging the sealing surface and remove it from the surface the pump sits on that would be fine.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I like the idea of doing something with it, not totally sure I get what you're suggesting.
Here is an image of what I'm dealing with. The yellow line is the gasket outline, the red line on the top is where I seem to be encroaching on the space I need to seat the pump. the trouble seems to be getting the two raised bolt holes (circled in red) on the engine to seat in the pump. Struggling with it lead to tearing the gasket.
When I pull it away from the top I'm able to seat the pump.
What purpose does it serve? Sort of looks like it's just there to protect knuckles from sheet metal.

It is to keep the rear covers from rattling. Can't you just trim along the edges

The raised parts are the locating dowels, the engineers never cared about our knuckles. You should try some underdash work sometime. Everything is razor sharp under there I cut a tendon in my thumb back in 2002 on an Accent.

The rubber is probably swollen from oil and has bulged. Just run a razor along the sheetmetal back cover and trim it out of the way

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I was able to practice manuvering the old pump off and on, I proceeded to the real thing and the raised bolt/guide pin on the top crushed the gasket again in the same place. I can get a new gasket with a 40 minute round trip drive. I'm thinking what I may need to put the gasket on the engine block with a tiny bit of RTV. Then put the layer of RTV on the outside of the gasket an then it won't be on the pump to damage next time around. I'll put the pump in and it will seat to the gasket. Good plan or not?

Sure, the old pump fits the dowel? The gasket/rubber is hanging up the new pump or does it fit on without the gasket? If it fits then I would get a new gasket. You need to move closer to the parts store ;)

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
We've loosened the sheet metal that holds the rubber gasket that gave us problems and thing we have gained space behind it by flexing it outward.
I think we'll try to use this gasket with some rtv between gasket and pump and gasket and engine in the spot where it tore.

OK, that should work

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Pump is in, I thought I'd refill the coolant to find out if I have a leak sooner than later but the package says wait 24 hours.
Is that a bit extreme. Not necessary right?
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Playing 20 questions here. I took out the new Idler pulley for the kit and it doesnt spin well. The one from the vehicle spins around about 12 times on one spin while the new one doesnt even make it one time around.
Is this supposed to be so stiff or do I have a bad part?

Not a problem,

If it is smooth use it, the old one spins because it is worn

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I would wait at least til you have the belt on to refill the coolant. Give the RTV as much time as possible to set up.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
The rtv that was used to put on the gasket has been on there for hours with the exception of what I added to the gasket tear area. It'll probably be 2 hours or more until I get coolant in. Probably about how it goes in the shop I imagine if they do this in 4-5 hours

The pump needs to be bolted up within 15 minutes, If it sets before the pump is installed it needs to be removed and a new gasket installed. It is a form in place and has to be in place to form correctly.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Wow, I think I just lost my marbles on that last one. So applying the gasket to the water pump and not putting it on immediately screws up the seal. I think I may be into tomorrow then before I'll complete this. I'll have to get another gasket. I think last time I did this I had the gasket on the pump quite a long time before I put it on the car.
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I'd been struggling with the belt trying to remember how I got this on the final wheel last time. Maybe I need to go get a gasket before the stores close.

You need to put a thin film on the gasket and install it to the pump at once then put the pump in place to get a good seal. The pressure from the bolts spreads the RTV on the gasket and that is what makes the watertight seal.

If it has been 2 hours the RTV is set and has lumpsand hills in it so the side of the gasket that goes to the engine will not be pressed evenly. Get a new one, clean it up and only apply when you are ready to install.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Aye Carrumba. Just in case I stick with it until Midnight, is there a trick in getting the belt up and on the final wheel once there the belt is tight everywhere? I want to pry it but that's a bad idea I think. Three years ago I managed to get it on but can't recall how.

The last point you install the belt is the tensioner pulley and slip the tensioner into place as you slightly turn the crankshaft clockwise to bring all the slack in the belt to that pulley. You use your thumb to lift the pulley arm into place and slip the tensioner in to hold it up there. I put at least one bolt in the tensioner so I can stab it in the hole and have the tensioner hold the pulley against the belt holding tension so it won't slip.

You might pull the belt one tooth off doing this but all the pulleys will be one tooth off so it is still in time. Release the pin and let the tensioner extend then turn the crank two revolutions and check your marks. If you are off do it again.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I'm going wrong somewhere in my belt install.
I marked the new belt with alignment marks by counting the spaces from alignment marks on the old one.
Both cams are on their mark. I have front idler pulley installed but no tensioner puller or tensioner at the rear.
I put the belt on with the ***** *****ned up on front cam. I go under pump and onto the rear cam and align that mark.
Then I go down and try to get it under the crank shaft and that's where things don't go so well.
When I work clockwise from the right cam down to crankshaft and up to the left cam my belt mark is off by one notch.
I know there was a trick to this but not figuring out what. Do I have to move all cams and crank off it mark so I can rotate it to the mark and tense the belt or something? Not coming up with anything that's working so far.

Don't go by the marks you made. Just line up the back cam on its mark,the front cam a hair before its mark and the crank 1 tooth before its mark. Install the crank bolt handtight. String the belt on starting with the back cam and pull it as tight as you can without pulling the cams off their mark. Install the tensioner arm and pulley and get the belt around that and hold the tension up with your thumb as youslowlyturnthecranktobring it up on its mark or even 1 tooth beyond. Keep tension on and slip the tensioner into place but don't release the pin. Check that all the marks are on or tooth beyond and if they are release the pin. If they are not all on there IS JUST enough slack to bump a cam or the crank back a pin so you don't have to remove the belt. If you are off by more than 1 tooth anywhere then start over again.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Belt is on and marks look they the agree on all three points.
I picked up some coolant when I prepped for this job but they store had no comment when I told them that I remembered a special type of coolant last time around.
What I have is Oreilly Conventional Green Coolant. Is this the right type for this vehicle or do I need another?

Regular green is the preferred coolant for this engine

George H.
George H., Hyundai Technician
Category: Hyundai
Satisfied Customers: 18,963
Experience: Hyundai Gold certified, ASE Master tech 15+ years
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