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Just so you know i am a mechanic and i am stumped on this

Customer Question
car its an 03 sonata...
just so you know i am a mechanic and i am stumped on this car its an 03 sonata with a 4 cylinder the customer was driving it and it just stoped and will not start up. it will do nothing when you turn the key on the dash will light up but when you turn it to start it dose nothing. the battery is good the starter is good i have checked the starter relay its good. when the switch is on the fuel pump comes on and will not stop it keeps running. i would suspect
JA: Is the car in "Park" or "Neutral?" Do you know if your car has a "wheel lock" feature?
Customer: i have tryed both
JA: What is the model/year of your Hyundai?
Customer: 2003 hyundai sonata 4 cylinder
JA: Are you hoping to fix this yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: yes
JA: OK. Got it. I'm sending you to a secure page on JustAnswer so you can place the $5 fully-refundable deposit now. While you're filling out that form, I'll tell the Hyundai Mechanic about your situation and then connect you two.
Submitted: 1 year ago.Category: Hyundai
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Answered in 3 minutes by:
7/11/2016
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago
George H.
George H., Hyundai Technician
Category: Hyundai
Satisfied Customers: 19,041
Experience: Hyundai Gold certified, ASE Master tech 15+ years
Verified

Hello I will help,

I suspect it is the computer but lets check some things.

Do you have a voltmeter?

Is the vehicle very rusty?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
no its clean
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Good, it won't crank when you Turn the key to start but the fuel pump is always running?

Does the starter small wire get 12 volts when the key is in the start position?

Do you have a scantool? If you plug it in does the fuel pump quit?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
i do have a scan tool and will have to see if pump cuts off when i plug it in and ck for 12 volts at little wire
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

OK, let me know what you find

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok i ck with scan tool and the pump stays on and there is no power at little wire when switch is on
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
also i have two codes po 335 and po 707 possible they are triggered because of problem
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

The codes could keep it from starting but would not keep it from cranking. The P0707 code is not correct.

Check the pink/purple stripe wire at the range switch on the trans to see if you have 12 volts with the key on.

Check the sockets for the start relay to see if you have 12 volts on two of the pin sockets with the key in the start position.

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Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Is there any evidence of an aftermarket alarm? Wires and black boxes tied up by the steering column?

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Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

If you have 12 volts at two of the start relay pin sockets try using a paperclip between the #30 and the #87 sockets. This should run the starter. Numbers are on the relay, let me know what happens.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
no alarm that i can see have ck the starter relay its good tried one time to see for power at pink and purple wire no power seem to be coming from them will how ever ck again.
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
will try these and get back to you
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

OK< I am gone for about 1/2 hour then back for most of tonight. Can always continue tomorrow if necessary.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok George i ck the wires and mo power but let me tell you what i did I turned the switch on and jumped power to the little wre on starter and car started up and ran but when i cut off it would not do anything unless I jumped the power to little wire.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

That sounds like you have a problem between the starter and the key, can you do the test above and let me know what you find?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
what test
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Scroll up to see the answers

The codes could keep it from starting but would not keep it from cranking. The P0707 code is not correct.

Check the pink/purple stripe wire at the range switch on the trans to see if you have 12 volts with the key on.

Check the sockets for the start relay to see if you have 12 volts on two of the pin sockets with the key in the start position.

11 Jul 2016, 5:16 PM

Me

Is there any evidence of an aftermarket alarm? Wires and black boxes tied up by the steering column?

11 Jul 2016, 5:17 PM

Me

If you have 12 volts at two of the start relay pin sockets try using a paperclip between the #30 and the #87 sockets. This should run the starter. Numbers are on the relay, let me know what happens.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
i tried that and it did not do anything there is power at #86 but not at # ***** so when you jump the two there is no power
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

If nothing at 87 or 30 then check the large fuse link under the hood. IT is IGN2 30 amp fuse in the underhood box. If you have a good fuse and nothing at the start relay (87 or 30) then there is a break inside the box.

Anything about the other questions I asked? Alarm?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
no alarm on car i will ck the fuse link tomorrow. would that alow power at the 86.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

You should have power at 85 or 86 when the key is in the start position. You should always have 12 volts at the 30 or 87 socket.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Hi George just wanted to let you know where i am today i ck again the two pins 30 and 87 and 87 has power i can jump the two as you said and the starter will turn I can turn the key on and and jump the two wires 30 and 87 and the car will start and stay running until i turn the key off. but will not start with key until i jump 30 and 87. what do you think.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

It sounds like the start signal is not coming from the key. Can you move to the 85 or 86 pin and see if it gets 12 volts when the key is in the start position?

If not check fuse 19 in the passenger compartment fuse block, should have 12 volts on both testpoints on the back of the fuse with the key in start position

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok i will ck
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Great!

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok i cked and when you have switch all the way over to start there is 12 volts on the 86
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

OK, can you swap that relay with another that has the same pin configuration?

The only thing that would keep 12 volts from being applied to the starter solenoid would be the #85 pin is not grounded or the relay is failed. You have everything else it needs to crank.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
i have already done that and same thing
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

You can crank it with a paperclip and you are not getting 12 volts at the small wire on the starter solenoid but you do have 12 volts and ground to the relay with the key in the start position.

You must have a break in the wire between the starter and the start relay.

How can I help?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok so i need to look at the 86 wire to starter is that right
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
also i tried to jump wire 86 to 30 and turn switch and it will blow the fuse in car
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

The only connector between the starter and the relay other than the connector on the bottom of the relay box is the EE01n single pin connection near the brake cylinder.

Click here for picture

Never jump anything but 87 and 30. Jumping 86 can cause problems inside the box and with fuses.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
will the ee01 keep it from starting and should I runn a wire from 30 to starter
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

The EE01 is the connection from the relay to the small wire at the starter and if it is corroded or disconnected you will not be able to spin the starter with the key.

You were able to do it with the paperclip so EE01 should be good. Your readings are not confirming this. Can you double check the relay, it should be the problem.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok will ck tomorrow
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Great I will be here later in the day and into the evening.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
George after i read the post again am to under stand that when the key is on to start both 86 and 85 should have 12 volts. because when I did that only one had 12 volts 87 should be hot all the time and 30 goes to starter. 86 had power and 85 no power is that on for the netural safety stwich.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Not both 85 and 86, 85 should be tied to ground.

If you only have one then we need to find out why.

You really have 12 volts on both 86 and 85?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
when the switch is on to start the 86and 85 should be hot and 87 should be hot all the time
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
dose one of them get power from the netural safety stwich.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Only the 86 and the 87 should have 12 volts if your have the relay out. 85 should be grounded at all times.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
then we are good 87 is hot and 86 is hot when switch is on and I can jump 87 to 30 and start the car so that would mean that the wire from 30 to starter is good and power is good to 87 and 86 and I have tried a different relay and did not work what grounds the 86 and where dose the netural safety stwich.fit in.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

The 86 can be tested by putting one lead of the meter in the 87 socket and touch the other to 85. If you show 12 volts it is connected to ground.

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Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Sorry I meant the 85, the one that does not have 12 volts with the key on.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
85 should have power as well
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

No, 85 should have ground. If you put your meter lead to 12 volts and touch the other lead to a grounded point you should see 12 volts on the meter.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok then what would keep it form starting if all is good there can the netural safety stwich.keep it from startng
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

We are working on getting the 12 volt start signal to the relay.starter. YOu proved you can crank it with a paperclip. The 12 volts to the relay from the key passes through the range switch and the fuse you checked. You say you have power at the fuse which means the relay is working but nothing at the starter small terminal.

Is the situation still the same? You have power to the fuse whith the key in the start position but not at the starter?

If that is the case you have a break between the fuse and the starter.

Is this correct??

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Hi George I have one more question I have found out whats wrong I did what you said and ck the 85 for ground and its not grounded if I jump a wire from the 85 to a ground from the relay on top and car will start can you tell me what i should run a ground to!
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
its funny how you work on theses all your life and one will stump you like this one did me
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

You can run ground to anything metal and clean. It is normally to the G15 ground which is on the bracket at the strut tower.

Let me know what I can do to help

Thank you

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
what wire is on fuse box that i nned to ground
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
is there ground wire that feeds the 85
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

That is the A2 black wire in the JC01 connector

Click here for diagram

Check G15 down by the air cleaner housing against the sheetmetal and see if maybe a rodent has been snacking. It could be all you need to do is repair the wire but you could have a problem in the connector as well

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
that wire is good is there a digram to use
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

For the connector? I posted it above where it says "click here?"

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
George sorry to bother you again but need to ask I cant get it to work except that I ground the 85 by itself and I noticed that the alternator wire is hot to the touch,
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

So where are you grounding 85? At the pin socket? I posted above that the problem may be in the connector? Have you removed the connector?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
at the pin is where i grounded it yes and it looked good.
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I tried to ground the wire A2 but did nothing
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Then you need to check inside the connector and see if you also have continuity from the 85 pin socket to the A2 pin of the JC01 connector black wire.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
will that cause the alternator wire to be hot
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Lets do one thing at a time.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

I think if you resolve this no crank problem you may solve the other issues but get it cranking consistently first then work on the charging

It really sounds like you have poor grounding.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Hello George just to update you I took the fuse box off and found the ground going in to the box was bad replaced the box and wire and car starts fine now. the only thing now is the power wire from the alter. to the battery is hot to touch while running the car I have ck the battery and the alter.and both are fine could the wire itself be bad.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Any small resistance in the wire or its connections will cause it to overheat. Do you have a clamp on ampmeter?

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Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Good, clamp it around the wire and see how much current is flowing through it with everything off and engine running. With a good battery there should only be about 5 amps. Have you checked the voltage at the alternator end and at the positive post end of the wire with it running?

You may have other ground issues to get to the finish line on theis one.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I have ck and with car running there is 13 volts at both ends.
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

OK, as long as you have the same within .2 volts on both ends. Check how much current is flowing through it.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
i will have to ck tomorrow any thing else that I should look at tomorrow. you want me to clamp the amp meter on the wire itself right!
Hyundai Mechanic: George H., Hyundai Technician replied 1 year ago

Yes, measure how much current is flowing through the wire from the alternator to the battery positive post. If it is getting hot, you have the same voltage on both ends and it looks like the original wire then it should have a lot of current flowing through it.

Battery tests good? If not get a good battery in it.

Let me know what you find when you get a chance to check it out.

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