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I have a Carrier Model 58MVP 120 blinking error code. 13.

I have a Carrier...

I have a Carrier Model 58MVP 120 blinking error code

Contractor's Assistant: How old is the appliance? Have you gotten error messages before?

13

Contractor's Assistant: Do you plan on doing the work yourself?

About 14 years

Contractor's Assistant: Anything else we should know to help you best?

Yes

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Answered in 1 minute by:
11/23/2017
BillyHvac
BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 23,155
Experience: Endorsed for unlimited heating, cooling, oil burners, boilers, refrigeration, hydronics
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Hello,

My name is Billy.

When 13 code is present...is the main blower running?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Furnace runs for about 5 minutes then shuts burners off and fan continues. The filter is clean but I’ve removed it.

And does this system also have an ac coil or just furnace only?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
it has an AC coil. I’ve blown out the burners with an air compressor and a significant amount of dust came out. I just had my basement finished and am sure it was drywall dust. I removed the front of the furnace and the AC exchanger looked ok but was cold to the touch. This was about 4 minutes after a heat cycle.

this is related to internal temp. While the burners may have been dirty they do not affect the limit sensor.

I ask about the ac coil because it can become plugged and mimic a plugged filter. Also a dense filter made to catch very fine microns also mimics a plugged filter...Right now you have an imbalance of air to the heat output.

I would recommend cleaning the ac coil....especially if drywalling has been done as that goes through a filter

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Ok, how?
Am I getting charged for every question or was this a one time charge?

you are not charged multiple times...there is just the one charge.

Have you opened the ac coil yet? Every installation is different...cased coil, uncased, horiz etc...I would need pics to tell.

Even if it involves opening sheet metal, the goal is to get to and clean the side of the coil that air blows against

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
The coils look like a big ‘N’. Looking into the furnace from the control panel. How do I send you a picture?

There should be an "attach files" link or icon

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I’m using my iPhone and don’t see an attach icon.

ok does the box around the ac coil match the furnace or is the coil inside silver sheet metal?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
It doesn’t match. It’s in silver sheet metal.

Then the usual way is to cut open the duct with an access hole to get to bottom of coil...Then just putting a metal patch over it like an inspection door.

In tight installs I have seen the ac coil need to be removed...They do have some sprays at the home improvement stores called evaporator coil cleaner. This is just sprayed on and soaks in and breaks down the dirt.

Here is a no rinse version

Billy

BillyHvac
BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 23,155
Experience: Endorsed for unlimited heating, cooling, oil burners, boilers, refrigeration, hydronics
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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Hi Billy,
I've used three bottles of cleaner on the internal evaporator coils. I've set up a small fan to blow very lightly on the burner box and this kept the furnace running through the nights. It never achieves the set temperature. If I remove the fan, the furnace runs for about an hour and then faults out (error code 13, sometimes 33). Any other thoughts?

Would you be willing to speed up the blower by switching a couple wires on the circuit board for me?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Yep. Just tell me what to do.
I should tell you this is a 4-zone system. 4 thermostats with 4 different ducts with dampeners controlled by a board. Pretty common in this area, just wanted to make sure you knew.
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
The blower is a dual speed.

That does change things....the zoned systems run hotter because the furnace is running full and only a portion of the duct is open. But there should be a barometric damper connecting the return to supply to "dump" extra air back through the system.

On the circuit board...follow the wires from the blower motor..there will be a black wire likely on COOL terminal....and then a red, blue, yellow....One of those will be on HEAT and the other 2 on PARK.

Can you tell me first which color is on HEAT

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do you have pics of circuit board in bottom section?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Where the wires attach? I'll get one.

ok I see you have multi system...can you give me full model number so I can pull schematic?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Product: 58MVP120-F-18120
Model: 58MVP120-20

Thank you...this will be a dip switch selection..see page 34 and try to get familiar with the cfm table (cubic feet minute).

We want the dip switches to be set for highest cfm on this unit

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see page 29 for dip switch placement on board click here

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
This unit has been running for 13 years with the settings as is. Should I really be changing things? I'm not familiar with dip switches.

Well there are 2 ways to look at it...

1 - it was never configured properly and has actually been running like this all along but finally wore out the limit switch.

2 - it was configured properly and something has happened recently to start tripping the limit.

Number 2 would be things like the dirty coil, too dense filter, zone barometric damper stuck.

With this particular system I would only change settings if you are trying to eliminate items as suspect.

A zone system basically shuts off portions of the duct depending on demand...lets say only 1 zone calls.....all duct is closed off except the one zone which leads to excessive heat circulating through furnace.

I am betting if all zones are open the unit does not trip....it is likely when only 1 or 2 are open.

Can you see if there is "crossover" that connects the return to the supply duct? I do not see it in pics

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
O.K. I understand your analysis.
The only return I see is the humidifier 8 inch duct that runs from the return to the humidifier in the duct supply.
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I'll snap another picture.

Thank you!

I am drawing a rudimentary sketch...just a moment.

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Ok, like you said it has been this way 13 years...but I am betting it has gradually worn out the limit because I do not see a barometric bypass.

See HERE

Picture the unit trying to pump air...but only a portion of duct is open. This cause back pressure and heat in the furnace.

The damper I talk about is supposed to relieve the pressure by recirculating through the return....it is a "runoff" of sorts.

I see no crossover for your system which means from the beginning it has ran under pressure. The humidifier helps some by default...but is not substantial enough.

Zoned systems are great for individual comfort, but are harder on equipment due to choking off ducts. Now this is not a fix out of no where....but just an observation that this could have simply led to wearing the limit switch out....coupled with the basement project it just hastened the switch demise.

The switches are pretty affordable...I would put a new limit in to see if things return to normal..

Example of part here

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Is this natural gas or propane?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
It's natural gas.Is it ok to run the furnace with the secondary fan cooling the burner box? Am I bypassing any safety switches by doing this?

What do you mean by secondary fan?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I've set a small fan at low speed in front of the furnace. This keeps the burner box limit cooler.

Understood..that is fine.

The only thing you can NOT do is bypass the switch we are referring to.

This must be in place...whether out of calibration or not...

The odor concerns me as that is a sign of bad gas pressure or or other contaminate...does it smell acrid at exhaust?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
It doesn't smell like rotten eggs at all, more like exhaust, just lots of it.Would this switch I just bought explain why the house never gets to temperature, even with the secondary fan?

Correct....every time the switch gets to a set temp (or triggers a worn out switch)...it turns off the gas valve....blower continues...cools...gas valve on...repeat...

The fact you are hitting 13 code means it faulted 3 times in one cycle.

That means instead of kicking on and running to set point, it turned the gas off 3 times.

It could run this way a long time tripping only once or twice a cycle before you would know it. It locks out at code 13.....but trips 3 times at code 33...and keeps restarting itself.

So whatever has been happening...you have no idea how many times it has tripped just once or twice per cycle..

First step would be to change the switch.

If the unit continues to cycle I would call for a pressure/exchanger check.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Ok. I'll get the switch on Dec 1st.
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Hi Billy, I installed the new switch and it seemed to run fine for about an hour (maybe it was wishful thinking). I noticed the flame seemed significantly larger and the smell was gone from outside. However, I got an error code 13 again and everything is the same. The bad smell is outside again and I need to run a secondary fan blowing onto the burner box to keep the furnace running. Any other ideas? I'm getting frustrated...What should the resistance be across the limit switch I just replaced? Maybe I got a defective one??

First a simple test....

But you must watch the burners (flame ) closely.

Star furnace...watch ignition....now you will have a minute of flame before circulation blower kicks on...watch the flame carefully....when the blower kicks on....do yellow tips appear or the flame wavers/dances a bit?...this is in correlation to the blower starting...

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I just saw something very interesting.
I watched a couple cycles.
The first cycle:
Igniter lights, flame kicks on. Blue flame orange tips. Fan kicks on. Flame stays the same. Strong odor outside the house (exhaust smells bad).
Second cycle:
Igniter lights. small burst of flame in burner box. Doesn't ignite.
Third cycle, immediately follows second cycle:
Igniter lights, flame ignites, very large flame. Flame extends from valve, through burner tube. Big orange flame. No smell outside. At cycle end, it got scary. The flame went out but a blue flame danced around the burner box like extra gas being burned off. Flame 'popped' and went out. Error code 33.
What the hell was that???

You have either a gas supply issue or bad exchanger.

This would require putting a gas pressure gage on the gas valve (there is a allen head screw on valve leaving side)

Natural gas should be 3.5 " water column

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Gas supply issue = gas to unit or gas valve istelf

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
No issues to other gas appliances in the house. So that means it's either the valve or the exchanger. How do I check the exchanger? If the exchanger is bad, can I replace it and where would I get it?

How old is the furnace?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
13 years

Then I would call a Carrier dealer. The heat exchanger is under warranty. There would be labor cost..but the exchanger is covered.

You are at the point where it is not something "basic" and actually even sounds dangerous.

I would have a Carrier dealer check the exchanger.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
OK. Thanks, I'll call first tomorrow.
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