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Need some advice re comfort 200a (GS20) - not heating water

Customer Question
Hi, need some advice re...
Hi, need some advice re edwards comfort 200a (GS20) - not heating water at all. all fuses are ok, and there is good 220 supply in, and 115 v past the transformer.
JA: Did you double-check the thermostat's settings? And what about the filters?
Customer: I don't have the manual to do that
JA: Do you plan on doing the work yourself?
Customer: i am faily technically able but I need to know what I am looking for and where
JA: Anything else we should know to help you best?
Customer: I don't think so, there is luke warm water from the solar panel but it is not boosted by the heater
Submitted: 6 months ago.Category: HVAC
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Answered in 21 minutes by:
5/9/2017
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago
Phil
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 8,824
Experience: Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial
Verified

Hello, please attach a close up photo of the units wiring diagram glued to one of the service panels, it must be exceedingly well focused, I will mark it up with trouble shooting instructions,

Use the attach files link next to your send button to get the photo to me, we can go from there.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Thanks Phil. Files attached. I also need to say that the unit does not seem to fire up. turning off then on again there is a small, faint sound like an electrovalve priming, but turning on the hot water at the tap does not fire up anything. there should be no reason for no gas supply, although it is the only gas appliance in the house.
Thanks
Tudor
20170509_095043[1].jpg2017050...jpg20170509_095103[1].jpg2017050...jpg20170509_095124[1].jpg2017050...jpg20170509_095134[1].jpg2017050...jpg20170509_100025[1].jpg2017050...jpg
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

Thanks, ***** ***** I need is a wiring *diagram, its a sheet of paper about6" x 8" or larger that is *glued to the inside of that access panel you removed to the electronics exposed.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
it is the last picture attached in the previous reply 20170509-100025
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

Diagram is not there, just pictures of the electronics module itself

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HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

4 pictures total, none with that 100025 number

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HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

Hello again, click here please, fit a jumper wire shown in blue, then try the water heater see if it fires. if so replace the high temperature sensor or fuse in that circuit.

If it does not fire, remove the two thermistors from the printed circuit board and measure the resistance across them, it should be neither infinite nor shorted... if its either replace that thermistor.

Next cool the each sensor one at a time with an ice cube, the resistance change gradually as it cools off, then warms up again, if not replace the sensor.

Let me know how that goes,

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HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Hi Phil, jumper fitted between dark blue and light blue wires. The unit did not fire up, just blew the 2 5A fuses.
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

Thanks, ***** ***** the circuits to that point are good, click here please next unplug the high limit switch I circled in red and jumper the two blue wires together,. if that fails you will need to call in someone local who can look this over in person... in that case tell me which direction you are from the center of the nearest city and I will see if I can find a well rated company near by.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
need to go buy two fuses first...
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

OK... get a few spares while you are at it

I will be up for another hour and a half tonight

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
ok then. new fuses in. high limit switch disconnected and blue wires jumped. nothing happened, no more blown fuses. HOWEVER when I reconnected the blue wires to the red ones it fired up for 5 seconds then died. I have tried to reproduce the phenomenon a few times but it never fired up again.
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

Thanks, ***** ***** of random behavior points to a bad printed circuit board.... but its very hard to test for.

We can however do a heat stress test on the printed circuit board, it works about 70% of the time to expose microscopic cracks in the integrated circuit chip.

Use a hair drier to warm the printed circuit board to 125F ( 52 deg C ) slowly and gently for about 5 minutes, then power the unit back on and if anything what so ever changes for the better or worse, the printed circuit board is bad.

let me know how that goes, we can proceed from there.

I am off to bed now and will pick your response in about 8 hours.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
thanks Phil! will do this pm and report back. You should really get more than just 8 hrs sleep! Cheers! Tudor
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

I will try

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Just before you go - I assume that if the fuses have blown when I jumped the first two light blue - dark blue wires, I need not to check the thermistors.
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

Bad thermistors are possible but would not have caused that brief firing for 5 seconds, then the ensuing failure. You can of course still check them however.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Thanks Phil. I have heated up the circuit board but no life. still that little sound of an electro-valve, but nothing else. I have tried the hi limit switch bridging trick, but it did not fired again. Just one thing, I can see two fuses - 5 amp, the ones which blew and now are brand new, but where on earth is the third one (the one attached to the hi limit switch circuit)?
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

If the fuse is not shown on the diagram its not in the circuit.

The heat stress test is only 70% efficient, no change does not prove the board is good..... but any change at all, for the better or worse, proves conclusively that the board is bad. You may want to remove it and inspect both sides with a magnifying glass for any burnt or corroded spots... if you find any, the board is bad.

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HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

The humming can be from the 115volt control transformer in most cases, thats normal as long as it is putting out its 115v control voltage , if indeed however an electro-valve is humming and not opening, its bad.

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HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

A person can usually feel around with his hand to detect whats vibrating (humming)

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Hi Phil, there is a fuse on the diagram and just wonder if you have any idea as to where it might physically be. I must be blind...
HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

The diagrams are drawn up and published then changes are made in the design and the diagrams are not updated....so you get items shown on the diagram that are not there on the equipment itself.

That is common,

That said to find anything on the equipment, first locate it on the wiring diagram and find a wire shown that you know you can find on the equipment... then follow the wire to the item.

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HVAC Technician: Phil, Mechanical Engineer replied 6 months ago

That is not always possible on a printed circuit board however.

Many fuses mounted on printed circuit boards are the automotive type

click here for some pictures

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Phil
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Phil, Mechanical Engineer
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Satisfied Customers: 8,824
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