HVAC

Have HVAC Questions? Ask an HVAC Expert for Answers

Ask an Expert,
Get an Answer ASAP!

HVAC

I have a Gibson gas furnace, 80+ or 90+ model ... about 12 -

Customer Question
13 years old. I tried...
I have a Gibson gas furnace, 80+ or 90+ model ... about 12 - 13 years old. I tried resetting the furnace. It will not light. Red light on circuit board gives 4 flashes, indicating "ignition failure (check ground)".
Submitted: 1 year ago.Category: HVAC
Show More
Show Less
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Answered in 3 minutes by:
4/12/2016
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Brian HVAC Guy
Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 953
Experience: I have been an HVAC/R mechanic/technician for 30+ years.
Verified
Hi I'm Brian and I'm here to help! Let's get started... A little more info will be helpful. How did you try to reset your furnace? Also, if possible, the model number of the furnace would be really helpful. It should be located on a data plate on the inside cabinet face of the furnace after removing the blower panel.
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I just tuned it off, also shut breaker off and back on again. Gibson, Model # ***** 120C - 20C.Fan comes on, can hear various clicking noises like it is trying to start things ... then fan stops after a few minutes, then got flashing light on circuit board (4 flashes, indicating "ignition failure (check ground)".)
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Ok thank you for clarifying that for me. Depending on the model and control board in your model furnace, that indicates all safeties are fine and ignition is called for by opening the gas valve then no flame is sensed. This can be caused by many things. Do you have any other gas appliances in your home? If so, are they operating properly? We need to make sure there is a proper gas supply to the furnace. That is the easiest way to tell. Also, when you say it doesn't light, do you mean there is NEVER any flame or it lights briefly then goes out?
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Gas stove in kitchen works fine. I don't think it is lighting at all. I assume I would see it lit in small round window
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
... above electronics?
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Not sure if this is anything ... there is a bunch of corrosion on clip where red wire connects at top. I took clip off and uses sandpaper to try and clean. (Top right of last image i sent)
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
No, you probably wouldn't see it in the same window you see the flash code. You should hear the slight woosh when it lights though. Since we know you have gas supply, the most common cause for this is a failed Hot Surface Ignitor. It could also be a fouled flame sensor or at worst a faulty gas valve but with your symptoms, my first thought is the HSI. If you're comfortable removing the furnace panels you can look for corroded terminals or a fouled flame sensing rod which is located right at the burner nozzles in the burner section.Ah, just got your last post.. corrosion can certainly cause this kind of issue. You should remove power and clean any corroded terminals you can find. Especially where the furnace control board is mounted or grounded. That's why they refer to "bad ground" in the detail of 4 blink code.
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
And if you attached any image(s), I didn't receive them :(
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Ok thanks, ***** ***** one image that time. I'm reviewing it now...
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
The indicator light I am seeing is on the circuit board (left side of pic). Would I see flames in the small round window at the top of the pic? (not sure where things are on this furnace ... everything is covered)
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
In your picture, in the little round inspection window at the top is where you would see flame if it were present. The spark plug looking connector with the red wire connected to it is your flame sensor. If there is corrosion there it could definitely cause a failed flame sense issue and give you the 4 blink code. The burner panel cover should come right off by removing the 3 or 6 screws attaching it (the panel with the round inspection window). That may give us more indication on what's going on but as I stated, I would suspect either the hot surface ignitor, the flame sensing rod or a corroded connection. Those are by far the most common causes of flame fail or fail to light conditions.
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
OK. I will remove the burner panel cover. The flame sensor is very corroded ... actually, the blade portion where the red wire slides on was rusted pretty badly. Again, I hit the "blade" with some sandpaper. Attached is a better shot, showing the corrosion.
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Yes that is quite corroded. if you remove the wire and remove the one screw holding the flame sensor in, you should be able to pull the entire flame sensor out and you can clean it with a wire brush and/or emery cloth or a Scotchbrite pad. The flame sensor is pretty hardy, the only care you need to take is to be careful not to crack the porcelain insulator. The probe coming out of the end of the insulator is what senses the flame and can be cleaned with emery cloth or the like as can the electrical connector both male and female. You should also clean the mounting surface of the flame sensor so it has a good physical connection to the burner box. That may solve your problem. When you remove the burner cover panel, you should also be able to see the hot surface ignitor. You can follow the wires up from the molex connector on the bottom left of the burner box to find it. Hot surface ignitors are very fragile once used and cannot be cleaned without damaging them. If you see that it is cracked or deformed in any way, it should be replaced.
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
How did that go? Did we zero in on the issue yet?
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I removed the flame sensor, but I don't have any of the items you listed to clean it. Got busy and could not get to the store. And I have not had a chance to remove the burner cover panel.
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Ok, very good then. Just let me know how I can help further and please remember to rate your session with me. You can come back any time for further help even after rating. I'll receive an email alert when you post a new reply. Thanks much for allowing me to help thus far! -Brian
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Any tips on cleaning the female end of the electrical connector to the flame sensor?
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Also, I just removed the 6 screws to remove the burner cover panel and it seems like there may be some kind of adhesive holding it in place. Should I still remove it? Does the adhesive need to be replaced?
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I cleaned the flame sensor and replaced. Same problem. Not sure if I should "force" open the burner cover. Again, all screws are removed, but it does not want to move.
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Sorry for the long delay, I was away and forgot to log out. The female connector can be cleaned with isopropol alcohol or contact cleaner. That's about the only thing you can do with that style connector, especially since it's an insulated connector. As for the burner cover, you furnace may have a gasket for the burner cover, many don't and many don't even have cover over the burners. If the gasket doesn't remain intact during disassembly, it can be removed and high temperature RTV found at at Wal Mart or any auto parts store can be used as a gasket when reassembling. If you're not comfortable with that, it may be wise to call your heating tech out. The ignitor may be able to be serviced without pulling the cover off, I don't remember on that particular furnace, it's been a long while since I serviced it. -Brian
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I don't have a problem removing the burner cover and installing a new gasket if that is what is necessary. I didn't want to open it if it was not supposed to be opened. Is there someone else there that knows if the ignitor can be serviced without removing the burner cover?
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
I don't know if any of the other techs here will remember working on your particular model or not. From the looks of the replacement ignitor, it appears it could be attached either way that would either require or not require removing the burner cover panel. If you snap a picture that gives a perspective on the bottom of that burner panel cover it will be obvious whether the ignitor can be removed without removing the burner cover panel or not. If the ignitor wires simply go through a hole in the cover then you will have to remove the cover to access the ignitor. If there is a bracket screwed on right where the wires are then you should be able to remove the bracket screw(s) and the ignitor should come right out without removing the cover panel. The reason for the burner cover panel is that you have a furnace that can be either direct or non-direct vent. What this means is your furnace has the burner section cordoned off so the combustion air can be brought in from outside through a second pvc pipe (direct vent) OR your furnace is able to use the indoor air surrounding the furnace for combustion by just not connecting the second vent pipe (non-direct vent). In either case there will be an exhaust vent pipe and a connection for a intake vent pipe on the top of the furnace and if you have a non-direct or direct vent system, you will have one or two vent pipes respectively. That is why your burner assembly has a cover over it, it's not a hugely critical seal especially if you don't have an intake vent pipe connected to it from outside. The burner cover box is in a negative pressure. With all that said, it's not a huge deal to take that cover off and the gasket seal is not that critical. Feel free to take it off and inspect the condition of your burner/nozzle assembly. There are screws along the bottom horizontal edges of that cover that need to come off as well. Now just to be sure we are talking about the same cover, I referring to the one at the top of the furnace where the flame sensor goes through. Not the cover below that which is the collector plate cover. That cover should not be removed unless your heat exchanger needs to be cleaned. The seal on that cover IS important! Let me know how I can help further. Thanks,Brian
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Hi,Can you take a look at the attached pic? Is the top left with the brown wires the ignitor (I assume)?Thanks,
John
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Hi again. I'm sorry for the very late response, I haven't been able to get online until now. Yes indeed, that ignitor has failed and is likely the root of your problem. If you replace it (if you haven't already) I would suspect your furnace should be good-to-go! When replacing a hot surface ignitor, be careful not to touch the heating element, the oils on your hands will burn into it and it will fail prematurely. Thanks much,Brian
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
HVAC Technician: Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician replied 1 year ago
Also, for your convenience Click Here for a manual for your model furnace. :)
Ask Your Own HVAC Question
Ask Brian HVAC Guy Your Own Question
Brian HVAC Guy
Brian HVAC Guy
Brian HVAC Guy, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 953
953 Satisfied Customers
Experience: I have been an HVAC/R mechanic/technician for 30+ years.

Brian HVAC Guy is online now

A new question is answered every 9 seconds

How JustAnswer works:

  • Ask an ExpertExperts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional AnswerVia email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction GuaranteeRate the answer you receive.

JustAnswer in the News:

Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.

What Customers are Saying:

You did one super job of explaining to me everything there is to know about this fridge. I'm looking forward to asking you questions in the future.

JimmyBagley, IA

Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help.

Mary C.Freshfield, Liverpool, UK

This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!!

AlexLos Angeles, CA

Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult.

GPHesperia, CA

I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion.

JustinKernersville, NC

Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around.

EstherWoodstock, NY

Thank you so much for taking your time and knowledge to support my concerns. Not only did you answer my questions, you even took it a step further with replying with more pertinent information I needed to know.

RobinElkton, Maryland

< Previous | Next >

Meet the Experts:

Phil

Phil

Mechanical Engineer

6,730 satisfied customers

Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial

Rick Mather

Rick Mather

HVAC Technician

3,133 satisfied customers

35 years experience, HVAC

Matthew

Matthew

HVAC Technician

2,014 satisfied customers

14 years experience in the HVAC field of service, installation, Manual J & D calculations

Kenton Guidry

Kenton Guidry

HVAC Technician

963 satisfied customers

12 years install/service experience.

Brian HVAC Guy

Brian HVAC Guy

HVAC Technician

953 satisfied customers

I have been an HVAC/R mechanic/technician for 30+ years.

Rick Ridley

Rick Ridley

UK Heating Engineer

871 satisfied customers

Retired But have had 30 years on the tools, Ex CORGI

Tom

Tom

HVAC Technician

770 satisfied customers

16+yrs HVAC/R service. Residential Commerical Industrial

< Previous | Next >

Related HVAC Questions
Need a heat exchanger for model GIN 80bu-1000 14B-3A; ser. #
need a heat exchanger for model GIN 80bu-1000 14B-3A; ser. # 1607K 03798 … read more
Airheatman
Airheatman
Heating & Air Conditioning Contractor
6 years college
1,836 satisfied customers
How can I tell I my York furnace control board is the cause
How can I tell I my York furnace control board is the cause of the furnace not completing the heat cycle. It shuts down and give me the pressure sensor/switch code but two tech's have been out and ver… read more
Billy
Billy
Journeyman Service Technician
State Licensed Mechanical Contractor
9,330 satisfied customers
Is it unsafe to have a cracked heat exchange on your
Is it unsafe to have a cracked heat exchange on your furnace? … read more
Rick the plumber
Rick the plumber
Owner
9,857 satisfied customers
This is the same guy with the Goodman furnace control board
Hi, this is the same guy with the Goodman furnace control board / transformer. My plumber said what caused the board to fail was a short in the blower motor from water from AC unit backing up into blo… read more
Billy
Billy
Journeyman Service Technician
State Licensed Mechanical Contractor
9,330 satisfied customers
I need a heat exchanger kit for a weil-mclain ultra 105, no
i need a heat exchanger kit for a weil-mclain ultra 105 … read more
Phil
Phil
Mechanical Engineer
Degree, Mech Engr Technology
6,730 satisfied customers
How do I check heat exchanger for blockage. Today. Sounds
how do I check heat exchanger for blockage JA: I'll do all I can to help. How long have you been dealing with this? Customer: today JA: Do you plan on doing the work yourself? Customer: yes JA: Anythi… read more
Rick the plumber
Rick the plumber
Owner
9,857 satisfied customers
When were stainless steel heat exchangers required for
When were stainless steel heat exchangers required for residential usage and/or what HVAC company was the first to provide them. And are they as effective as touted.… read more
D.E. Anderson
D.E. Anderson
Industrial Refrigeration Service Manager
198 satisfied customers
I have a Goodman GMNTE120-5 It has a furnace/control board
I have a Goodman GMNTE120-5 It has a furnace/control board with this part number B1809925two of the wires have come off two connectors, and the wires are the same color - trying to determine if it mat… read more
Billy
Billy
Journeyman Service Technician
State Licensed Mechanical Contractor
9,330 satisfied customers
I recently replaced my furnace control board. The furnace is
I recently replaced my furnace control board. The furnace is a Lennox G40-OUH and the control board was a White Rodgers 50-A65-121-07. The only replacement was a White Rodgers 50A65-843 Universal Boar… read more
Billy
Billy
Journeyman Service Technician
State Licensed Mechanical Contractor
9,330 satisfied customers
I have an amana furnace control board with an led flashing 3
I have an amana furnace control board with an led flashing 3 times … read more
Rick the plumber
Rick the plumber
Owner
9,857 satisfied customers
Funky smell coming from heat exchanger outside...... repair
funky smell coming from heat exchanger outside...... repair guy said the gas not m ixing with the air properly..true? said probably just clogged … read more
Billy
Billy
Journeyman Service Technician
State Licensed Mechanical Contractor
9,330 satisfied customers
I need help with my -Rodgers furnace control board 50e47-060
I need help with my White-Rodgers furnace control board 50e47-060 on a Trane furnace. It has a blinking red light. On the unit it says " steady red light- replace control, blinking red light-referred … read more
type2technician
type2technician
253 satisfied customers
I have a nordyne KG7TC-080D, with a furnace control board
I have a nordyne KG7TC-080D, with a furnace control board #624790/920916. this is a 2-stage upflow unit. Furnace ignites but goes out wihin seconds. flame sensor replaced, still the same issue. Has in… read more
Airheatman
Airheatman
Heating & Air Conditioning Contractor
6 years college
1,836 satisfied customers
Heat exchanger is a month old and heat stopped working.
Heat exchanger is a month old and heat stopped working. Three lights are blinking saying it is a limit or rollout switch … read more
Gaztech
Gaztech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade School
1,070 satisfied customers
I have a property with a Keeprite heat exchanger installed.
I have a property with a Keeprite heat exchanger installed. I believe the filter is clogged but I don't know where it's located. The model is PGF018K040E … read more
Phil
Phil
Mechanical Engineer
Degree, Mech Engr Technology
6,730 satisfied customers
The condensation water leaks from heat exchanger near the
The condensation water leaks from heat exchanger near the filter and comes on the ground tray. There is no blockage of any sort. What needs to be done for auxiliary condensation tray if it is cracked.… read more
Gaztech
Gaztech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade School
1,070 satisfied customers
I think that I may have a bad furnace control board. Trouble
Hello I think that I may have a bad furnace control board. Trouble shooting so far. Two different thermostats with the same behavior. Direct connection of the R&W&G wires make the furnace run continuo… read more
HVAC Guru
HVAC Guru
Service Technician
Associate Degree
682 satisfied customers
My furnace control board light is not coming on. Yes, the
My furnace control board light is not coming on. JA: Did you check the furnace's filters? Customer: Yes, the furnace filter is new. JA: Do you plan on doing the work yourself? Customer: Yes. JA: Anyth… read more
HVAC Guru
HVAC Guru
Service Technician
Associate Degree
682 satisfied customers
Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

Show MoreShow Less

Ask Your Question

x