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I have a Takagi Jr 2 that is about 4 years old at our

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Hello. I have a Takagi Jr...
Hello.
I have a Takagi Jr 2 that is about 4 years old at our cottage. Over the past year the hot water output has been intermittently turning off. It's been getting worse as of late, running from anywhere from 1-2 mins up to maybe 5 min before going cold. But now it won't turn on at all. The unit ignites for about 1-2 secs then the flame goes out. After three tries it throws an error code 12, flame sensor I think it's called. I have checked most of the troubleshooting items, cleaned the flame sensor, but makes no difference. Still ignites for about 1-2 secs and retries 3 times then throws error code 12.
I do not suspect propane as the problem as it is running off a 100lb tank which currently is full and all other gas appliances are running flawlessly.
I suspect it is the main pc board but would like to ask an expert first.
Thanks in advance, Steve
Submitted: 2 years ago.Category: HVAC
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Answered in 17 minutes by:
9/13/2015
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago
Rick
Rick, HVAC Supervisor
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 23,064
Experience: 40+ yrs. experience as a licensed oil & gas technician.
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Do you have the manual? Did you check the other possible causes in the manual?

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I have downloaded the troubleshooting manual. Error code 12 flame loss.
1. Check high limit switch... Ok
2. Check gas supply... Gas Ok
3. Check gas pressure... OK
4. Check that the clear plastic tube connecting the proportional gas valve to the combustion chamber is
attached... Cannot find this tube. Maybe refers to a different model??
5. If the flame comes on for 1‐2 seconds but then goes
out, clean the flame sensor... Yes it does! Cleaned flame sensor using 220 grit sandpaper being careful to not bend the probe. Was not that dirty to begin with. Still same problem. No change.
6. The overheat cutoff fuse may have been compromised... Check continuity. OK
7. Check for blockages in venting, such as bird nests, animals, or trash... OK
8. PC Board fault or Gas Solenoid fault... Have not checked solenoid and unable to test board.
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

Are there any visual defects on the board, like a burn or discoloration? Does the burner ignite then go out or not light at all? If it doesn't light do you hear a buzzing/ticking sound when it should fire up? An visible leaks from the heat exchanger? did you check for broken wires/bad connections?

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Cannot see any visual defects. The burner does ignite but then goes out a few seconds later. Visually everything looks perfect.
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

Could be a bad flame sensor rod. The next step would be to replace it. It's unlikely but if the burner is clogged near the flame sensor that could be causing this.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Ok. I will order one and get back to you. I only have weekends to work on it as it is at our weekend cabin.
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

If the burner hasn't been cleaned/checked in a while you should do that first

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I have already cleaned it. No change.
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

Ok, if you're sure about the connections then you're down to the sensor or the board.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Do you know what the voltage is supposed to be coming back from the sensor when the flame is on?
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

Typically 4 to 12 micro amps. Note that's micro amps not milli amps

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
not really measureable.
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

It is measurable but you need a meter that can read micro amps.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thought I might have found it. A slightly corroded connection at the probe where the wire attaches. Started working again, but now it's back to how it was a few weeks ago. On for a few minutes then cuts out. Then back on again. Then cuts out. No errors.
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

Given the extremely low voltage signal from the sensor the connections must be flawless. the behavior you describe, in light of past errors, still indicates a flame rectification issue. Since you don't have any errors showing now it does cast more doubt on the board. But if you don't have a meter that can read micro amps I'd replace the flame sensor rod primarily because it's a lot cheaper than a new board.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I think I'll buy both. It may be the sensor but I also know the board is problematic so either way I'll have a spare of one or the other. I'll have to let you know how it goes in a week or so.
Do you have know of a preferred supplier preferably in Canada?
HVAC Technician: Rick, HVAC Supervisor replied 2 years ago

I'm in NH, I don't know any suppliers North of the border.

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