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I have a Honeywell thermostat and a Coleman electric furnace.

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My problem is sometimes the...
I have a Honeywell thermostat and a Coleman electric furnace. My problem is sometimes the heat won't shut off and it keeps blowing. It has gotten as hot as 84 degrees one day while I was at work (it was only set on 68). The only way to get it to shut off is to turn off the breaker. Is the problem in the thermostat or the furnace?
Submitted: 5 years ago.Category: HVAC
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Answered in 16 minutes by:
12/3/2012
HVAC Technician: V12Tech, HVAC Technician replied 5 years ago
V12Tech
V12Tech, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 260
Experience: A.A.S. MET, E.P.A cert, Certificate of Excellence HVAC/R
Verified

V12Tech :

Hello I se you have a thermostat apparently overshooting its set temperature

V12Tech :

The thermostat has 6 periods pre programmed by Honeywell that will follow the 1st set period if you do not erase or set each period to time and temps desired, I never saw one hit 84 unless the periods setting was by accident.

V12Tech :

Have you gone thorugh the program and saw if the 6 periods are existing or set wrong? If you set it to HOLD it should hold that temp and if it wont is a malfunction.

V12Tech :

The easiest way to definitively test the system is remove the thermostats cover,it exposes the Red 24v hot White Yellow and Greeen circuits

V12Tech :

Sorry I was going to put White is heat Yellow is cool and Green is fan

V12Tech :

Red to White is heat, the fan will run by a time or temp delay on the low speed which is the heat speed. The Green fan is high speed or cooling speed and not used in heat unless electric heat is what you use.

V12Tech :

If you get a set of jumpers or use a piece of wire you jump Red to White and see if it shuts off every time you remove the jumper, simulating a termination of heat call from the thermostat

V12Tech :

If the heater had a heat relay which it doe not I doubt its anything but the thermostat, If the settings for the periods are not way off as in 84 on one of the periods , the thermostats malfunctioning, are the batteries fresh? some thermostats are powered via battery, it is worth checking.

V12Tech :

Hi are you in?

V12Tech :

Do you know how to see the program existing?

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

Sorry. Getting my son ready for school. I think it's an older Honeywell model. It is not programmable.

V12Tech :

If you give me the model I will find out how to read them

V12Tech :

No problem

V12Tech :

ok

V12Tech :

that makes it easier

V12Tech :

under the cover is a setting with s sliding lever it is tiny do you see that?

V12Tech :

is it a round thermostat?

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

the only # XXXXX see is TH5110D1022 0541

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

no

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

it has 2 buttons on bottom... 1 is fan and 1 is system

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

fan only has auto & on settings

V12Tech :

Its rectangular then?

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

yes

V12Tech :

ok

V12Tech :

under the cover is there a mercury bulb

V12Tech :

I ask as a heat anticipator setting will cause wide temp variances

V12Tech :

If it is solid state it has no anticipator and if older type will have this adjustment

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

no

V12Tech :

OK

V12Tech :

If you remove the cover there will be the Red, White, Green and Yellow wires

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

ok

V12Tech :

You may ned a small screw driver to remove the top of the base

V12Tech :

Once the wires are exposed jump red to white which is heat

V12Tech :

and every time you remove this jumper the furnace should shut down in 3-5 minutes

V12Tech :

If it does as I know it will the thermostats defective.

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

i dont know u mean by "jump"

V12Tech :

You could remove the green wire from its terminal and atach the white wire and heat will be energized by the fan switch rather than a jumper

V12Tech :

connect red to white terminals

V12Tech :

the thermostat conects red to white for heat

V12Tech :

loosen a screw and slip wire under and tighten

V12Tech :

Im sorry

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

i have to take my son to school. i will be back in a little while

V12Tech :

I talk like I am speaking to a tech sometimes

V12Tech :

ok

V12Tech :

I may be gone but rate me high or not at all please another will helpif I am gone

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

ok. brb.

V12Tech :

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2wfn4w9" target="_blank"><img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/2wfn4w9.png" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

V12Tech :

http://tinypic.com/r/2wfn4w9/6

V12Tech :

http://i50.tinypic.com/2wfn4w9.png

V12Tech :

This is the basic residential thermostats circuits, Red is the "hot leg" of the 24 volt control circuit power and originates from the transformer.

V12Tech :

The transformer reduces high voltage to 24 volts a "safe" voltage for thermostats use, as in doorbells etc, we use a low voltage to be safe.

V12Tech :

The Red circuit is the 14 volt "hot", " leg or side of power" Or call it Line 1.

V12Tech :

The 24 volt hot leg is sent to the thermostat on the Red terminal

V12Tech :

Upon a call for heat a switch closes between Red and White.

V12Tech :

The White wire now being hot with the 24v control circuits power

V12Tech :

it goes to the gas valve and to complete its path or circle, it must return to the 24 volt Common or Neutral , The opposite side of the 24 volt supply from the transformer from where we began which was Red.

V12Tech :

Every single 24 volt control circuit terminates on the 24 v common thus the name common.

V12Tech :

If you remove the Green wire from the thermostats terminal and attach the white terminals wire to the green terminal. you can cycle the heat via the fan switch from auto to on

V12Tech :

In other words rather than energizing green wire it will energize the heat or white wire

V12Tech :

and you can easily terminate a call for heat many times and record the actions to detemine if the thermostat is sticking

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

i don't really understand anything about this stuff. i just want to know if i should buy a new thermostat or have somebody come look at my furnace.

JACUSTOMER-ra0di1vc- :

please email me if u can provide additional information. i have to go to work but i will check when i get home tonight.

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HVAC Technician: V12Tech, HVAC Technician replied 5 years ago



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HVAC Technician: V12Tech, HVAC Technician replied 5 years ago
Hello,I apologize it is a bit detailed, I am quite sure the thermostat is defective, I merely suggested bypassing the thermostat to definitively diagnose it without question,I can give my opinion which is the thermostats bad, However if I were there to be correct I would have to test it. I am sorry if this seems vague I just wish to be completely up front.
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Customer reply replied 5 years ago

so you don't think it's the furnace? i just didn't want to spend time & money having someone come look at the furnace if i can just replace the thermostat.

HVAC Technician: V12Tech, HVAC Technician replied 5 years ago
I never see furnaces continue running with no signal from the thermostat,
Not to say that is impossible but if it were stuck a thump on the furnace would jostle it loose , as funny as it sounds, the relays are tiny little things and if you had a heat relay which only very old units used , it might stick, but not as likely as the thermostat
If you jumper red to white with a wire or simply attach the white terminals wire to the green terminal after taking off the green wire you can run heat via fan switch and see if it ever sticks
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HVAC Technician: gotoman for ac, HVAC Technician replied 5 years ago
gotoman for ac
gotoman for ac, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 5,257
Experience: 51 years of experience install design and repair of all makes and models of AC
Verified
Please give me model of furnace. You have a Coleman electric furnace with a stuck or intermitten sequencer. Give me model number and I will pull manual. Russ
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Customer reply replied 5 years ago

Model # XXXXX XXXXX Thanks!

HVAC Technician: gotoman for ac, HVAC Technician replied 5 years ago

Sorry site has been down. Problem is furnace. sequencer is sticking. This is common problem with the EB furnace. I will enclose a service manual and tell you where problem lies. I have Nordyne/Coleman archives but this a much better manual. Google Nordyne EB15B electric furnace wiring diagram. You will see winfield supply site. Click. This your manual. It will show you location of sequencers and wiring. You will have a yellow and blue wire on M2 this is fan and heat. If this sticks your heat will remain on. Best thing to do is replace the whole 15 KW sequencer. The wiring diagram is very easy to follow and i will be here for you. As I said site was down plus I have Type A and B flu. Should have taken flu shot. Daughter brought it home from school and passed it to entire family. I am here if you need me.Russ

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Customer reply replied 5 years ago

No problem. My son has bronchitis & gave it to me too. I found the manual but not sure what to do next.

HVAC Technician: gotoman for ac, HVAC Technician replied 5 years ago
First check location of the components(sequencers). Move to schematic. Just get familiar with the wiring. Do not stick fingers into wiring area without turning off power. You will see Blue and yellow wire coming off top of sequencer. You will need to replace entire sequencer. Should be a 15 Kw sequencer. Just follow wire per wire. These furnaces are hard to work on because you have to lay down and not much room. russ
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Customer reply replied 4 years ago

Last night the furnace stopped working at all. The thermostat still clicks when you turn the heat on but nothing happens. I have tried flipping all the switches & breakers but nothing happens. I am still not sure if the problem is the thermostat or the furnace. It is currently 57 degrees inside.

Customer reply replied 4 years ago
Relist: Other.
Need an answer now. Don't want to wait.
HVAC Technician: Bart Jay, HVAC Technician replied 4 years ago
Bart Jay
Bart Jay, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 655
Experience: 35 years in HVAC. NATE Certified EPA certified
Verified
I would agree that the sequencer is bad. It probably was stciking and now the contacts are bad. Just repalce it
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Customer reply replied 4 years ago

Is this something that I can do myself or do I need to call a professional?

HVAC Technician: Bart Jay, HVAC Technician replied 4 years ago
If you are comfortable it is not that difficult. just replace wire for wire
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HVAC Technician: Bart Jay, HVAC Technician replied 4 years ago

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Electric-Sequencer-6UEE9?Pid=search

 

this may not look exactly like yours but is the same thing

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HVAC Technician: Bart Jay, HVAC Technician replied 4 years ago
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HVAC Technician: Bart Jay, HVAC Technician replied 4 years ago
Turn the POWER OFF and repalce one wire for wire.
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HVAC Technician: Bart Jay, HVAC Technician replied 4 years ago
Please accept
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HVAC Technician: V12Tech, HVAC Technician replied 4 years ago
I see you have not jumped red to white and run the unit several times as advised on
12/3/2012 at 5:50 AM
V12Tech : The easiest way to definitively test the system is remove the thermostats cover,it exposes the Red 24v hot White Yellow and Greeen circuits

V12Tech : Red to White is heat.

V12Tech : If you get a set of jumpers or use a piece of wire
you jump Red to White and see if it shuts off every time you remove the jumper,simulating a termination of heat call from the thermostat.
..................................................................
And on 12-21 still had no idea whether the thermostat was bad or the heater!
`There is no way to determine if the thermostat is bad without testing it or bypassing it, by jumping/connecting/touching RED to WHITE,

This is very simple and requires just a small screwdriver,
had you ran the unit several times to observe any malfunction having removed the thermostat from the equation, this much would be known at least.
This unit unless very old is a heat pump, if it is resistive electric heat I would expect $200-$400 a month heat bill alone.
Resistive heat is 100% efficient in converting 1 Watt into BTU's
1 Watt = 3.45 BTU's @ 100% efficiency

A heat pump is approx 300% efficient and provides 12 BTU's per Watt
or a 3 X the heat per Watt or per Dollar actually.
So if a $300 electric heat bill with resistive strip heat
you will have a $100 billl with a heat pump and for the same heat provided! This alone explains why we rarely ever see straight resistive heaters anymore. We had Rancho Seco Nuclear plant and .03 per KWH electricity at one time and electric heat was way too cheap to consider a heat pump despite their 300% efficiency .
3 mile island caused the shut down of this plant and 60 million in costs, we now pay about.30 per kwh after the 1st tier rate.
A $400 heat bill was not uncommon,and consequently we ripped out every resistive heat furnace in town,replacing with heat pumps or gas if available.You can buy an entire new furnace for $645.
I rarely see them the last 20 year as a result.
banging on the unit if stuck funny as it sounds will
jar loose a stuck relay etc.
As for replacing a sequencer, jumping 2 wires together on the thermostat has not been done in 18 days,
replacing a sequencer is implausible,nor should you in my opinion,
its too dangerous and easy to make 1 error,
power gives no second chances,please be careful if you attempt the sequencer, at this point I suggest a service call is required to at least diagnose what you have wrong and we can talk you through it.

please feel free to ask anything you want from any of the experts here.








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sequencer video below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5YjL8eR5VJ0
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