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Hi,I have a Payne furnace. I was receiving the Code 33

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Hi, I have a...
Hi, I have a Payne furnace. I was receiving the Code 33 "limit switch" error code and I had a HVAC guy troubleshoot. He added a second return vent directly adjacent to the furnace into the house. However, this still triggers the same code. A Payne technician was called and he suggested that my tech take readings on both supply and return. He did the readings and told me that the readings were in normal parameters. When I remove the filters off of both returns, I do not get a code however, I see the furnace cycle without throwing any code. The LED is solid during this cycling. It seems that it doesn't reach the target temperature and shuts the fan down and then cycles and then restarts and continues heating. This occurs every five/ten minutes until the target temperature is achieved and then it shuts down completely until the next interval. I do notice that when the target temperature is reached, my thermostat's relay does click. At that point, the furnace does go through it's normal shutdown sequence. I had a different HVAC technician come to troubleshoot further and he wasn't of any help. He removed the filters and fired it up and since there was no code, he blamed the filters, charged me $50 and left. Some help he was. This is frustrating... Can you please help? Thank you, James  Model Number is XXXXX
Submitted: 6 years ago.Category: HVAC
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Answered in 24 minutes by:
11/19/2011
HVAC Technician: mranswer, HVAC Mechanic replied 6 years ago
mranswer
mranswer, HVAC Mechanic
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 6,160
Experience: 20 years experience running my own business
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This is some sort of air flow issue from what you describe here. Has this been going on since this was installed? Is the blower wheel clean? Is there an a/c coil present in this system and if so has it been inspected to make sure it is clean too?
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
I don't know. It's been ongoing since I bought the house almost three years ago. How do I check the blower wheel and the A/C coil. The A/C side is Bryant brand and sits below the Payne furnance. Did you see my attached image of the model number?
HVAC Technician: mranswer, HVAC Mechanic replied 6 years ago
Only a visual inspection of these parts will tell, so if you are so able then go ahead. Any dirt on the blower wheel drastically cuts its ability to move the air and a dirty evaporator coil acts just like a dirty filter.
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
That is not what I asked? I asked, how do I access the blower and ac
Coil?
HVAC Technician: mranswer, HVAC Mechanic replied 6 years ago
The blower is in the furnace- it is not hidden, just take off the access panel. Use a flashlight and mirror to see the wheel. To see any dirt on the coil means you must look at it from the point where the air ENTERS the coil as dirt will only be on the INLET side just like a filter. I do not know the exact physical set-up of what you have, but I am sure that you can figure out how to look at it- panels may need to be removed, etc. but the coil is not in a secret location either. Air flows into the furnace only 1 way, so there should be no confusion here as to which way the air flows thru the coil.
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Okay. I'll check and report back. Do the side panels come off for this model?
HVAC Technician: mranswer, HVAC Mechanic replied 6 years ago
No, only the front comes off on this.
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Hi,

I've attached two more images... I can barely get to the blower. I used a mirror and can't really see good enough to notice any dirt.

I don't know where the coil is. Here's my only access in these two images.

Thanks,
James

graphicgraphic
Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Relist: Incomplete answer.
Would like to know more information on accessing the parts described in my ticket.
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago
BillyHvac
BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 22,894
Experience: Endorsed for unlimited heating, cooling, oil burners, boilers, refrigeration, hydronics
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Hello,

 

do you see the box that the furnace sits on?

 

That is the ac coil.

 

Could you attach picture of that please.

 

Billy

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Hi Billy,

Here's an image of the whole stack. The Bryant is at the bottom.
graphicgraphic
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

 

Thank you,

 

the last picture of the big silver box with BRYANT on it.

 

The right side panel comes off by removing 5/16s screws. This will let us see the ac coil surface.

 

Also, this circuit had many issues with turning off the blower and causing the issue you describe. It is a HK42FZ circuit board. It was known for turning th blower off for no reason resulting in the 33 code.

 

I do not know if this is your issue...but this was a issue with this circuit board.

 

Remove the panel and take pic of inside and I can tell right away if it is a factor.

 

Billy

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Hi Billy,

I got the cover off of the Bryant. Here's the photos. It doesn't look dusty/dirty. What's next?

Thanks,
Jamesgraphicgraphicgraphicgraphic
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

That is what I thought.

 

Can you tell me if any tech has taken a "temperature rise"

 

 

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Not sure what you mean?
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

Your unit is rated for a temp rise of 30-60 defgrees. It means it is designed to suck in air and heat it 30-60 degrees.

 

You deduce this by measuring temp of air at return register...and air at first supply register, and then figure the difference.

 

70 return air and 100 register is 30....

 

I would like to know your temp rise.

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Can I use a regular temperature gauge? That is all I have with me? This is from Radio Shack that has a probe to monitor the outside temperature? If I can use this, how long should I run the HVAC at each location to get the reading?
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

 

I would like the temps after a 5 minute run time.

 

I thank you for the extra help.

 

Billy

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Hi Billy,

At return 73 degrees.
At register 95 degrees.

NOTE: The HVAC only stays on for about 3-4 minutes and cycles so not able to read for five minutes.

Also, the limit switch was the replaced two years ago when I first had the tech come out. I thought there was a second sensor that he had replaced as well. The main board you speak of was NOT replaced.



Thanks,
James
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

You are at the very bottom of the temp rise range. It is my opinion it is not due to blockages , dirty blower, coils or duct work...

 

If any of those were the case your temp rise would be 60 degrees or higher.

 

It is my bet that you have one of the affected boards that turn the blower off randomly while burner is on resulting in overheat at that given time.

 

I realize this is new development..but I personally changed around 300 of these boards.

 

Billy

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Now this... I have a home warranty and would like to have the board replaced under this warranty. The last guy that came out under my home warranty was "full of it..." if you get my meaning...

How much does the board cost? And are you able to send someone out to change it? Or is this something I can do on my own?

Thanks,
James
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

The replacement board is a wire for wire changeout.

 

I see you are savvy with pics so the best thing is to take pics and jot notes, but you will find it to be a straight changeout.

 

Plus, in the event you need help, just return here.

 

Billy

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Okay, where should I get this board from? HK42FZ
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

They are available quite a few places..

 

Here is an example - http://shortyshvac.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=39

 

you will see HK42FZ004 all the way to HK42FZ016 because they kept reworking the board .

 

Billy

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Hi Billy,

I'm not clear. So since there are so many different versions, which version/model do I need to pick up? Can you be precise? I don't want to order the wrong product and be SOL. I've already invested over $1000.00 and got no where. I have no problems accepting your answer. I just need to be certain.

Here's my circuit board.

Thanks again,
James
graphic

Thanks,
James
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

I am sure. Plus at the top edge of your board is the HK42FZ009 which was 2 reworks agao.

 

If you look at the link I supplied you will see the 009 is covered, and then you can verify the 009 at the top of the circuit board you have,

 

Billy

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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Hi Billy,

I will go ahead and get the one from your link. I really hope this answers my issues with my HVAC. I've been really frustrated not having a solution for almost three years.

Thanks!
James
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

You are welcome...here is my deduction:

 

33 is overheat code.

The temp rise which is normally operating desig temp is 30-60.

You running temp is 30- which means you are certainly not overheating.

This eliminates dirty blowers, gas pressure, duct, dirty ac etc..

If any of those were a factor the temp rise would be 60+.

 

This leaves us with 2 options....

 

1- a weak limit switch. It trips at lower temps than it is supposed to.

2 A bad circuit board. Turns blower off at random.

 

I apologize I did not mention a weak limit. The problem with this unit is I changed so many boards I aometimes neglect the other potential answers.

 

It may be cost effective to replace the limit first as a move toward a solution.

 

 

BillyHvac
BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 22,894
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
Hi Billy,

This site needs updating. It's been popping errors and becomes inaccessible. I tried to press the accept button earlier and it froze the page.

I did replace the limit switch as the first step 2.4 years ago.

Thanks,
James
HVAC Technician: BillyHvac, Journeyman HVAC Tech replied 6 years ago

 

Sorry for site issues James, I was locked out from replying.

 

I thank you and will be available for no charge follow up on this question whenever you need.

 

Billy

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