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91 accord misfires between 1500 &1800 RPM only

Customer Question
240K miles runs like a...
240K miles runs like a dream except... Replaced all usual suspects plugs, rotor, dist cap, fuel filter. Did nothing. Idles great - great acceleration if you jump on it but during normal driving it misfires between 1500 and 1800 RPM ONLY! Does not happen when cold. Help! Coming up on 100K on the timing belt, could it be worn teeth? Initially thought it was the trans slipping but you can hear the miss in the exhaust note.
Submitted: 10 years ago.Category: Honda
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Answered in 5 minutes by:
1/19/2008
Mechanic for Honda: Craig, Auto Service Technician replied 10 years ago
Craig
Craig, Auto Service Technician
Category: Honda
Satisfied Customers: 473
Experience: 11 Yrs Honda Dealership Experience, Honda Platinum Certification 2003, ASE Master with L1 Advanced
Verified
Welcome to the site.

This is a very common problem with these engines. The EGR ports in the intake are clogged. Check out this bulletin for all the information you need.

98-074

April 20, 2007

*Applies To:
1990-1993 Accord L4 - ALL
1997-2001 Prelude - ALL*

Hesitation or Stumble With Possible DTC(s) P0141, P0171, P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0401, or P1491

(Supersedes 98-074, Hesitation or Stumble, dated December 8, 1998, to update the information marked by the black bars and asterisks)

SYMPTOM

*An engine hesitation or stumble can be felt under light acceleration between 1,500-2,000 rpm. In addition, on 1997-01 Preludes, one or more of these DTCs may be stored:*

PROBABLE CAUSE

Carbon build-up may be restricting the EGR ports in the intake manifold runners.

CORRECTIVE ACTION

Clean the carbon out of the EGR ports.

PARTS INFORMATION

EGR port plugs:P/N 171 99-PT3-AHM, H/C(NNN) NNN-NNNN

REQUIRED SPECIAL TOOLS

EGR Plug Replacement Kit: P/N 07WAZ-001000A(Includes slide hammer, 10-24 threaded screw, No. 25 drill bit, 10-24 tap, and 30 replacement plugs) This kit is available for purchase through normal parts ordering. It's also available for loan through the Special Tool Loan Program. For details, refer to Service Bulletin 98-051, Special Tool Loan Program.

WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION

In warranty:
The normal warranty applies. Failed Part: P/N 17100-PT3-A00
H/C(NNN) NNN-NNNNbr />
*Defect Code: 06901

Symptom Code: 09202*

Skill Level: Repair Technician Out of warranty:
Any repair performed after warranty expiration may be eligible for goodwill consideration by the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone Office. You must request consideration, and get a decision, before starting work.

DIAGNOSIS

1. Disconnect the vacuum line from the EGR valve, then connect a vacuum pump-gauge to the valve.
2. With the engine idling, apply 10 inches of vacuum.
^ If the engine does not stall, go to step 3.
^ If the engine stalls, this service bulletin does not apply. Continue to troubleshoot for other causes of the hesitation or stumble.
3. Plug the EGR valve's vacuum line, and leave the EGR valve disconnected.
^ If the engine does not stall, go to step 4.
^ If the engine stalls, this service bulletin does not apply. Continue to troubleshoot for other causes of the hesitation or stumble.
4. Test-drive the vehicle.
^ If the hesitation or stumble is gone, go to REPAIR PROCEDURE.
^ If the hesitation or stumble is still there, this service bulletin does not apply. Continue to troubleshoot for other causes of the problem.

REPAIR PROCEDURE

1. If clearance is needed, remove the two mounting bolts for the electronic air control valve (EACV), then move the valve out of the way.
2. Remove the two mounting bolts for the fast idle valve, then move the valve out of the way.

3. Center-punch one of the rear EGR port plugs. Using the No.25 drill bit from the EGR Plug Replacement Kit and a drill, make a hole in the center of the plug. Use a vacuum cleaner to remove the metal shavings as you drill.
4. Using the 10-24 tap from the kit, tap the hole you just drilled. Vacuum out the metal shavings as you tap the hole.

5. Use the 10-24 screw and the slide hammer from the kit to remove the rear EGR port plug from the intake manifold.

6. Using a thick wire (such as a piece of coat hanger), clean out the EGR port hole. Vacuum out as much of the debris as possible.

7. Install a new EGR port plug into the port hole using a brass drift. Make sure the top of the plug is flush with the manifold.
8. Repeat steps 3 thru 7 for the three other rear EGR ports.

NOTE :If the four rear EGR ports had a lot of carbon in them, repeat steps 3 thru 7 on the two forward EGR ports and their crossover ports.
9. Reinstall the fast idle valve and the EACV using new 0-rings.
*10. Clear any stored DTCs.*


Hope that helps. There is no warranty on the Accord as this bulletin shows. That only applied to the Prelude but the information is exactly what you will need to fix this problem.
Craig
Craig, Auto Service Technician
Category: Honda
Satisfied Customers: 473
Experience: 11 Yrs Honda Dealership Experience, Honda Platinum Certification 2003, ASE Master with L1 Advanced
Verified
Craig and 87 other Honda Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
I cant see any of the pictures, what am I doing wrong?
Mechanic for Honda: Craig, Auto Service Technician replied 10 years ago
Sorry. The images didn't go with it.

1. Disconnect the vacuum line from the EGR valve, then connect a vacuum pump-gauge to the valve.
2. With the engine idling, apply 10 inches of vacuum.
^ If the engine does not stall, go to step 3.
^ If the engine stalls, this service bulletin does not apply. Continue to troubleshoot for other causes of the hesitation or stumble.
3. Plug the EGR valve's vacuum line, and leave the EGR valve disconnected.
^ If the engine does not stall, go to step 4.
^ If the engine stalls, this service bulletin does not apply. Continue to troubleshoot for other causes of the hesitation or stumble.
4. Test-drive the vehicle.
^ If the hesitation or stumble is gone, go to REPAIR PROCEDURE.
^ If the hesitation or stumble is still there, this service bulletin does not apply. Continue to troubleshoot for other causes of the problem.

REPAIR PROCEDURE

1. If clearance is needed, remove the two mounting bolts for the electronic air control valve (EACV), then move the valve out of the way.
2. Remove the two mounting bolts for the fast idle valve, then move the valve out of the way.

graphic
3. Center-punch one of the rear EGR port plugs. Using the No.25 drill bit from the EGR Plug Replacement Kit and a drill, make a hole in the center of the plug. Use a vacuum cleaner to remove the metal shavings as you drill.
4. Using the 10-24 tap from the kit, tap the hole you just drilled. Vacuum out the metal shavings as you tap the hole.

graphic

5. Use the 10-24 screw and the slide hammer from the kit to remove the rear EGR port plug from the intake manifold.

graphic

6. Using a thick wire (such as a piece of coat hanger), clean out the EGR port hole. Vacuum out as much of the debris as possible.

graphic

7. Install a new EGR port plug into the port hole using a brass drift. Make sure the top of the plug is flush with the manifold.
8. Repeat steps 3 thru 7 for the three other rear EGR ports.

graphic

NOTE :If the four rear EGR ports had a lot of carbon in them, repeat steps 3 thru 7 on the two forward EGR ports and their crossover ports.
9. Reinstall the fast idle valve and the EACV using new 0-rings.
*10. Clear any stored DTCs.*
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Customer reply replied 10 years ago
Ok I did the test
10" vacume, engine hesitates but does not stall
plug the vacume line engine idles fine
drive with EGR valve disconnected hesitation is gone.

Looks like this is the fix right?

One last question, how often in reality, does the timing belt need to be changed in an automatic?

Thanks for all - will accept...

Great site!!!

M
Mechanic for Honda: Craig, Auto Service Technician replied 10 years ago
That is the fix. :) Have done a lot of those including on my 92 accord and my brothers 91 accord.

The recommendation for that timing belt is every 60k or 6 yrs. They didn't go to 100k timing belts until 97 so if you have never had it done, get it done. Make sure that the water pump is replaced along with the timing belt as the water pump is run by the timing belt. Also, not sure where you will get the timing belt done but I would strongly recommend the Honda Water pump. Its a little more expensive but I have never had to replace the honda water pump under warranty. Their pumps are worth the extra money, hands down. Also, I would make sure to have the cam shaft seal and the balance shaft seal replaced along with the timing belt. The timing belt can be aftermarket but I would get a Gates belt if you go aftermarket.

Hope that helps.

Hope that helps.
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Craig
Craig, Auto Service Technician
Category: Honda
Satisfied Customers: 473
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Experience: 11 Yrs Honda Dealership Experience, Honda Platinum Certification 2003, ASE Master with L1 Advanced

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