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sevn103
sevn103, Journeyman
Category: Heavy Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 275
Experience:  Cummins,International certified diesel mechanic
20119161
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98 N-14 getting anti-freeze..Runs good..valves to get water..balancer

Customer Question

98 N-14 getting anti-freeze into cylinders. Runs good but in mornings will not turn over. Have had to release valves to get water out of cylinder no. 6. we tore down replaced liner and head and still have water in a cylinder,we think, probably number 5 because it stops on A mark on balancer. Where is water coming from ? Or what is causing it not to turn over. Checked batteries, all good,starts and runs good after getting water out. But next morning, after sitting over night will not turn over.
Submitted: 6 years ago.
Category: Heavy Equipment
Expert:  Rory replied 6 years ago.

Rory :

Hello welcome to Just Answers Heavy Equipment! I will assist you with your question.

Rory :

I would be willing to bet that the mating surface on the engine block has a flaw that is allowing your leak. I would remove the heads (all 3) and have them measured and tested and have the block surface measured and tested. Even though these engine have separate heads you always want to do all the heads at once.

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

ok-should we see a pattern on head gasket?

Rory :

I am sorry what are you referring to as "pattern"?

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

evidence of water leaking into a specific cylinder

Rory :

Yes but not always will it be evident during visual inspection as water/coolant is thin liquid and will pass through areas smaller than your eye may see. that is why a precise measurement needs to be taken.

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

this would do it overnight, but run during day ? Why not leak all the time ?

Rory :

If you have a good head machine shop in your area these places are usually able to send someone out to do a thorough inspection on both surfaces.

Rory :

Yes I have seen this happen before. I believe what happens is the water is vaporized while running. but during night just fills the cylinders

Rory :

since it is entering the cylinders slowly it has little or no effect on running.

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

By replacing the head we have eliminated a crack in the head and a pin hole from electrolysis in liner as well ?

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

should or can we shim liners after confirming surface deteriation ?

Rory :

No. but the surface can be "resurfaced"

Rory :

That is all of the info I can offer. I believe that disassemble is needs so that a thorough inspection can be performed to determine the exact area.

Rory :

please remember to click accept if I have helped you. Thanks

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

Does rocker box have water running through it on top of culinder ?

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

How can water enter cylinder if liner if mating properly w/head, block surface should not matter because it would leak externally .?

Rory :

No the rocker bock does not. I am sorry I don't think we are communicating well. In this situation you have an undetermined factor which can only be determined from inspection as far as I am aware. Since I am unable to to this my self I can not give you a exact or specific answer. I will Opt Out so that another expert can give you an answer. Thank you have a great weekend!

Rory :

Please do not respond or the question will be locked to me and another expert can not answer.

JACUSTOMER-r4dyl2rz- :

what surface needs to be resurfaced

Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
You say you relaced #3 head, did you measure liner protrusion on #5 and 6, did you shim #6 liner when you replaced it, did you check the fire ring on #5 liner, yes the rocker box has water in it, but most of the times people clean block with buffing pads and remove or destroy fire ring on the liners, also if you did not shim that liner when you replaced it that will cause problems to. You should be able to inspect headgasket for the grab headgasket has. There should be ring on headgasket from fire ring on liner, if the ring is not desticnt or faded/ then you liner is low/fire ring is buffed off.
Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
Also before tearing down, confirm which cly is causing the problem, remove injectors and psi test coolant system, verify cly before tearing down, so we know what cly to go after.
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
so it could be a liner heighth issue ? We will get into shop and pull injectors and pressurize and look for water in a cyl by turning over occassionally till we find bad cyl.
Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
What size shim did you use on #6 liner
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
.0007
Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
Was that the same as came from old liner? What was your liner height after installing with that shim.
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
same shim that came out. Did not check heighth after installing on 5 or 6
Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
Ok if you reused shim that could be your problem, also could have rolled shim when installing. N14s usually use. 020 shims they offer larger sizes if counterbore is wore out. They also make shims for top of liner if needed but I try not to use. You will need to find which one is causing problem, but you have to measure liner height in 4 spots on liner while pressing liner down with install tool.
Customer: replied 6 years ago.

my mechanic said he measured heighth and found it to be .004

Customer: replied 6 years ago.
we will check and get back with you
Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
Check and get back to me if he is not checking with the liner clamped down then his measurements mean nothing. Also if he buffed the fire ring off then you will have problems,
Customer: replied 6 years ago.
ok we actually pulled a liner out of a motor we had out back that we dismantled because the cam was flat . We thought we could save money that way and maybe cost us. We will check water system 1st and go from there. thanxx (Leaving now)
Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
Ok sounds good, just post when you find out or if you need help, this way when you respond it emails me.
Expert:  sevn103 replied 6 years ago.
Just one more question, did the come off the other engine as well or is this new? Before tearing apart let me know how the psi test goes with injectors removed
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
found problem today. Air compressor was letting water into intake